[corduroy]

Originally Posted by Goody4

My sentiment, too.

I did this in my F15. It really does sound good mids and highs sounded much better. Bass sounded tighter. BUT the really low end bass was just... gone? If I adjusted the eq, low end bass just couldn't get to where the HK system coding was.

I don't know how other cars are set up, but in the F15, there are speakers for the low end (sub 100 Hz?) under the front seats. I'm thinking that this may have neutered those speakers. It might be an improvement in those cars that don't have this separation of speakers?

but I ended up reverting back to Harmon Kardon too.

[bringmywallet]

Originally Posted by rsm_CR

Can you please elaborate on what your current car is, year and audio package, and what values you coded? I have a MY16 F30 with HK and was pretty disappointed with general audio until I enabled BO dsp and calibrated it and now it's passable but could be better. I'm interested in trying out what you mentioned

I have a 2016 F30 lci with harman kardon, i am coding the separate ecu i am seeing in esys which is called AMP_TOPHB that is showing the eq settings for the amplifier. Not much else seems to be codeable in this module.

I might have to add that i placed 6mm mdf rings between the underseat woofers and the housings, and added some damping wool in the housing which also cleaned up the bass a bit before i coded the amp.

But the B&O and eq settings really made the difference for me.

Now i only turned the fader 2 to the rear and 200hz to -2 and am very happy with the sound.

[bringmywallet]

Originally Posted by J555

Would you mind to share more details about what car it is? And what exactly did you code?

I am curious, because I can't see even this ECU in bimmercode

I am coding with esys, don't know if it is possible with bimmercode, i have no experience with it.

[Torquey]

Originally Posted by J555

Would you mind to share more details about what car it is? And what exactly did you code?

I am curious, because I can't see even this ECU in bimmercode

I ordered my OBD2 bluetooth scanner and was thinking about Bimmercode and/or Bimmerlink. Would be really nice if this could be tried via one of those.

[pongkin]

bimmercode

[Zorn]

Anyone have any experience with the Bowers & Wilkins profiles? Do they seem to make any improvement? Everything I have found is just talking about the B&O settings.

[damack]

Originally Posted by damack

I had the B&O profile enabled a while back. It's different and at the beginning I think that I figured it was better. After listening for a while, I'm not convinced. I'm probably going back to the HK.

I think it's pretty common to confuse different with better. In the end, music is such a personal preference. If it sounds good to you, that's all that really matters.

Turns out my decision was made for me. Car went in for a service, dealership wiped out the coding and I'm back to HK L7. In all honestly I like it better. To my ears it sounds cleaner, more detailed and the imaging is better.

[BBri89]

I've just restored my EQ settings with Logic7 after doing more Bimmercoding a while ago (and forgetting to restore my changes again).

The sound is loads better, must have got used to terrible sound lol. But going to try coding this B&O in if the general consensus is that it's better than L7.

[SniPro]

Originally Posted by Encanto

The coding of the B&O(6F2A) or B&W(6F1A) means sending a digital profile to the HK(688) via MOST. The profile changes the sound parameters in the OEM amp, from default HK/ProLogic II, to the Bowers and Wilkins parameters or to Bang & Olufsen parameters.

- the F3x has no Bang and Olufsen OEM amp as factory installed in any model whatsoever. Which means that whatever coding to B&O is done to the HK(688) is not designed to support it. That somehow works only means that the HK(688) OEM amp software is common among MOST OEM amp. The B&O OEM amp has discrete front tweeter channels, different center speaker configuration, different speakers, several sound profile selections and about double the power output of the HK(688).

- the Bowers and Wilkins system hardware and specs are unknown as it was never implemented in any 3-Series. Only the OEM amp is listed in the ETK without any P/N.

- changing the parameters makes the sound different, not optimal to the HK OEM speakers.
- this coding is only applicable to MOST OEM amps. HiFi(676) or HK(674) are not MOST.

Actually B&W on F series (e.g. F90) technical architecture is quite similar to HK (F30). B&O is less similar to HK.
The only differences generally between B&W and HK are:
- central channel has separated mid and hi (they used empty 10th channel on amp to separate twitter from mid speaker)
- since B&W has 1400watt it’s AMP is connected directly to battery instead of being connected to rear electrical module as HK - however electrical connection type is not related to sound producing
- there is an additional mic over driver seat which checks noise level inside of car to make adjustments to sound on the fly
- there is led module in a trunk which responsible to speaker grills led color - but this is not related to sound producing so can be neglected
- DSP profiles are different, however on some HU HK Profile can be replaced to B&W
- amp has 1400 watt output, while HK 600+. However it affects only max sound level and level clean from distortion.

I actually plan to retrofit speakers from B&W for the beginning, maybe later will change the amp too. Amp is expensive, the cheapest used one is currently more than 1k $

[J555]

Originally Posted by SniPro

Actually B&W on F series (e.g. F90) technical architecture is quite similar to HK (F30). B&O is less similar to HK.
The only differences generally between B&W and HK are:
- central channel has separated mid and hi (they used empty 10th channel on amp to separate twitter from mid speaker)

There is good reason for the similarity between them, as both the amps are actually made by Harman Kardon (unlike the B&O made by Lear). Also the speakers are produced in Hungary and China, makes me guess they maybe come from the same factory under the B&W licence.

However, there are different versions of the amp (e.g. X7 has 20 active channels) and unlike HK that has two versions of tweeters (both the same, but one in bigger holder for dash), B&W has wider variety. That includes standard and super-expensive diamond versions (diamonds are used in the front doors) and wirings in quite many options -also different holders, with variety of wiring lengths, and some with resistors, some without. Unlike HK, the latter use direct wiring harness to the amp, while all HK tweeters are connected to mids and all have resistors.

Originally Posted by SniPro

I actually plan to retrofit speakers from B&W for the beginning, maybe later will change the amp too. Amp is expensive, the cheapest used one is currently more than 1k $

I did it, replaced all HK tweeters and mids with B&W. The improvement in every aspect is night and day compared to HK. In case of woofers decided to go aftermarket, as the B&W's - while much better than HK - do not meet my expectations (and still damn expensive).

[SniPro]

Originally Posted by J555

There is good reason for the similarity between them, as both the amps are actually made by Harman Kardon (unlike the B&O made by Lear). Also the speakers are produced in Hungary and China, makes me guess they maybe come from the same factory under the B&W licence.

However, there are different versions of the amp (e.g. X7 has 20 active channels) and unlike HK that has two versions of tweeters (both the same, but one in bigger holder for dash), B&W has wider variety. That includes standard and super-expensive diamond versions (diamonds are used in the front doors) and wirings in quite many options -also different holders, with variety of wiring lengths, and some with resistors, some without. Unlike HK, the latter use direct wiring harness to the amp, while all HK tweeters are connected to mids and all have resistors.


I did it, replaced all HK tweeters and mids with B&W. The improvement in every aspect is night and day compared to HK. In case of woofers decided to go aftermarket, as the B&W's - while much better than HK - do not meet my expectations (and still damn expensive).

Thanks for your post.
Is there significant difference between B&W aluminum dome twitters and H&K twitters? They seem for me to be very similar.

What actually changed after speakers replacement, could you please describe? Clarity, scene, volume level etc.

[Encanto]

This thread is about coding, not about hardware differences.

Originally Posted by SniPro

Actually B&W on F series (e.g. F90) technical architecture is quite similar to HK (F30). B&O is less similar to HK.
The only differences generally between B&W and HK are:
- central channel has separated mid and hi (they used empty 10th channel on amp to separate twitter from mid speaker)
- since B&W has 1400watt it’s AMP is connected directly to battery instead of being connected to rear electrical module as HK - however electrical connection type is not related to sound producing
- there is an additional mic over driver seat which checks noise level inside of car to make adjustments to sound on the fly
- there is led module in a trunk which responsible to speaker grills led color - but this is not related to sound producing so can be neglected
- DSP profiles are different, however on some HU HK Profile can be replaced to B&W
- amp has 1400 watt output, while HK 600+. However it affects only max sound level and level clean from distortion.

I actually plan to retrofit speakers from B&W for the beginning, maybe later will change the amp too. Amp is expensive, the cheapest used one is currently more than 1k $

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by SniPro

Thanks for your post.
Is there significant difference between B&W aluminum dome twitters and H&K twitters? They seem for me to be very similar.

Good question. Answering it is easy enough, you just need to see SPL, distortion and waterfall charts for each. Since the gear required to take those measurements only costs $300 you'd think every manufacturer of replacement drivers would post them in their advertising.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...ystem--390-792

But they don't.

[SniPro]

Originally Posted by Encanto

This thread is about coding, not about hardware differences.

You are right, but one depends on another. The more similar from hardware perspective two “different” systems are, the more effect software change from opposite system will do.
I just tried to show that B&W coding can be potentially more effective than B&O on HK system

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by SniPro

You are right, but one depends on another. The more similar from hardware perspective two “different” systems are, the more effect software change from opposite system will do.
I just tried to show that B&W coding can be potentially more effective than B&O on HK system

The effectiveness of the hardware depends on the software coded for it. You cannot set a software high pass at 30Hz designed for a B&W woofer and pretend that an HK woofer driver that starts at 40Hz be ok with it just because it sounds "deeper". Sooner or later the woofer will collapse.

Just because you can code whatever MOST profile you find for a HK-hardware system and find it more rewarding to you only means that OEM speakers are being forced to play something that they are not designed for, not that they are more effective.

[Encanto]

The X7 uses two OEM amps, that's why it can drive 20 channels. The most that an F-chassis OEM can drive is 11 channels. There is nothing in the software that is common.

Originally Posted by J555

There is good reason for the similarity between them, as both the amps are actually made by Harman Kardon (unlike the B&O made by Lear). Also the speakers are produced in Hungary and China, makes me guess they maybe come from the same factory under the B&W licence.

However, there are different versions of the amp (e.g. X7 has 20 active channels) and unlike HK that has two versions of tweeters (both the same, but one in bigger holder for dash), B&W has wider variety. That includes standard and super-expensive diamond versions (diamonds are used in the front doors) and wirings in quite many options -also different holders, with variety of wiring lengths, and some with resistors, some without. Unlike HK, the latter use direct wiring harness to the amp, while all HK tweeters are connected to mids and all have resistors.


I did it, replaced all HK tweeters and mids with B&W. The improvement in every aspect is night and day compared to HK. In case of woofers decided to go aftermarket, as the B&W's - while much better than HK - do not meet my expectations (and still damn expensive).

[J555]

Originally Posted by SniPro

Thanks for your post.
Is there significant difference between B&W aluminum dome twitters and H&K twitters? They seem for me to be very similar.

The material is different, but agree - the B&W tweeter is only marginally heavier. However, the improvement in sound quality is huge and honestly was shocking for me; far beyond what I expected in this case.

Originally Posted by SniPro

What actually changed after speakers replacement, could you please describe? Clarity, scene, volume level etc.

I am not good at describing that, but can try... On top of all, the biggest issue I have experienced with HK speakers was the music simply did not sound correct. As if you listen years to some records and they sound different. This is something for what I received complaints even from passengers, saying "what the heck, this does not sound as *interpret*". Possibly a result of speaker mudiness, distortions at different volume levels, limited frequency range, etc. I was very disappointed with both surround on and off, adjusted EQ all the time and experienced quick listening fatigue (I do like music loud),...

The improvement is literally in everything and is big. The clarity is excellent, the speakers play exact but not sharp, the mids cover a much wider frequency range (much more mid-bass), the separation is a different league. The tweeters are very good and while they are not up to B&W home speakers, they still sound as B&W. The mids are both bright and deep, however, I am sure they have big reserves and would work even better with more power (which is my subjective feeling even in cars equipped with the entire B&W system from the factory). The speakers play subjectively louder at the same volume settings. I do not use the surround option anymore (as you clearly see the negative impact of processing and distortions) and keep the EQ almost flat. I experience very little listening fatigue, no problem listening for hours at very high volume levels.

I have listened to many upgraded BMW's and not saying the B&W are the best speakers for stock amp or even best for the bucks. However, the improvement is big and if you like the B&W sound, you get it here. Worth noting that I have tried to describe the tweeters and mids only - the underseat woofers affect the overall sound a lot. Also the reason, why I am not trying to compare my setup to BMW's and Volvo's with factory B&W systems, that I drive time to time (btw, they sound quite different, too).

Originally Posted by Encanto

The X7 uses two OEM amps, that's why it can drive 20 channels. The most that an F-chassis OEM can drive is 11 channels. There is nothing in the software that is common.

Ah, makes sense, thanks for the information! I spotted at least three different HW versions of B&W amps, but they have the same speaker connectors...

[320dgrey]

I'm gonna try this also. Did not even know that you could code the sound system from HK to B&O.

Just to make sure: doesn't coding it to B&O overload the amplifier and speakers/tweeters/etc.?

Love to hear the improvements when the sound system is coded to B&O.

[J555]

Originally Posted by 320dgrey

Just to make sure: doesn't coding it to B&O overload the amplifier and speakers/tweeters/etc.?

In "expanded" mode, the B&O profile uses the center dash speakers significantly more (i.e. they play significantly louder). When listening at very high volume levels, the center mid can be potentially damaged. That's the only thing I am aware of.

[SniPro]

Originally Posted by Encanto

The coding of the B&O(6F2A) or B&W(6F1A) means sending a digital profile to the HK(688) via MOST. The profile changes the sound parameters in the OEM amp, from default HK/ProLogic II, to the Bowers and Wilkins parameters or to Bang & Olufsen parameters.

- the F3x has no Bang and Olufsen OEM amp as factory installed in any model whatsoever. Which means that whatever coding to B&O is done to the HK(688) is not designed to support it. That somehow works only means that the HK(688) OEM amp software is common among MOST OEM amp. The B&O OEM amp has discrete front tweeter channels, different center speaker configuration, different speakers, several sound profile selections and about double the power output of the HK(688).

- the Bowers and Wilkins system hardware and specs are unknown as it was never implemented in any 3-Series. Only the OEM amp is listed in the ETK without any P/N.

- changing the parameters makes the sound different, not optimal to the HK OEM speakers.
- this coding is only applicable to MOST OEM amps. HiFi(676) or HK(674) are not MOST.

FYI:
Earlier B&W amplifiers (the black box one) are using 10 channels (9 in same way as HK, 10th is separated central twitter) and are very similar to HK (has also 10 channels but uses only 9 - central mid and hight sitting on same channel) except power 1400 vs 600 and active noise processing (mic for equalizer) and active instead of passive crossovers for front.
I replaced all high and mid speakers from HK to B&W and coded head unit the Bowers & Wilkins (6F1) and difference is night and day

[21Inked]

Originally Posted by J555

There is good reason for the similarity between them, as both the amps are actually made by Harman Kardon (unlike the B&O made by Lear). Also the speakers are produced in Hungary and China, makes me guess they maybe come from the same factory under the B&W licence.

However, there are different versions of the amp (e.g. X7 has 20 active channels) and unlike HK that has two versions of tweeters (both the same, but one in bigger holder for dash), B&W has wider variety. That includes standard and super-expensive diamond versions (diamonds are used in the front doors) and wirings in quite many options -also different holders, with variety of wiring lengths, and some with resistors, some without. Unlike HK, the latter use direct wiring harness to the amp, while all HK tweeters are connected to mids and all have resistors.

I did it, replaced all HK tweeters and mids with B&W. The improvement in every aspect is night and day compared to HK. In case of woofers decided to go aftermarket, as the B&W's - while much better than HK - do not meet my expectations (and still damn expensive).

Originally Posted by J555

There is good reason for the similarity between them, as both the amps are actually made by Harman Kardon (unlike the B&O made by Lear). Also the speakers are produced in Hungary and China, makes me guess they maybe come from the same factory under the B&W licence.

However, there are different versions of the amp (e.g. X7 has 20 active channels) and unlike HK that has two versions of tweeters (both the same, but one in bigger holder for dash), B&W has wider variety. That includes standard and super-expensive diamond versions (diamonds are used in the front doors) and wirings in quite many options -also different holders, with variety of wiring lengths, and some with resistors, some without. Unlike HK, the latter use direct wiring harness to the amp, while all HK tweeters are connected to mids and all have resistors.

I did it, replaced all HK tweeters and mids with B&W. The improvement in every aspect is night and day compared to HK. In case of woofers decided to go aftermarket, as the B&W's - while much better than HK - do not meet my expectations (and still damn expensive).

hey.

u have changed the mid Center speaker and the Front door speakers right ?
maybe u can share the partnumbers

greetings

[J555]

Originally Posted by 21Inked

hey.

u have changed the mid Center speaker and the Front door speakers right ?
maybe u can share the partnumbers

greetings

Changed center speakers (mid and tweeter) and front/rear doors (mid and tweeter). I believe the parts I used are following:
- center mid: 65-13-9-279-632
- center tweeter: 65-13-9-279-631
- door mid: 65-13-9-279-635
- door tweeter: 65-13-9-279-629