[iconoclast]

Originally Posted by marlin2911

Actually, it sounds more like everyone that wants this wants Nissan's ATTESA E-TS AWD system. Car is AWD when starting from 0-16mph (at least on the G37 it is), then the car transfers power 100% to the rear at driving speeds until the system detects slip, at which point power is then returned to the proper wheels. The drive system is mostly RWD in architecture, and power is sent to the front wheels via transfer case. It's heavy, but it works incredibly well.

OP stated s/he wanted a manual way to change the driving attributes of the awd system.

[Thumper333]

Originally Posted by Hydim

In the dry, it was good, but when it became wet the xDrive did not let him drive the car the way he wanted to.

As has already been mentioned, this is because Xdrive is not a "track" system, it's not performance optimized.

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I suggest other than disconnecting the front axle drive (make it RWD with all the disadvantages of a front heavy car with additional rotating mass and inertia) any switching implementation has to have some positive advantage. What that is... any definitions?

HighlandPete

No positive reasons I can come up with other than "oh cool, a knob, I can play with my settings like they do in NASCAR. How many clicks to a full wedge??" lol

The point of AWD is to have control at all 4 wheels at all times, there would be no point to say suddenly "Hey, I feel like a FWD because I am in a city...."

Originally Posted by bahasad

Since BMW is planning to implement xdrive on their true M-cars, they better put some effort into developing it to be more like Quattro.

Agreed, I think it would be great to see some real performance boost to the //Ms with AWD.....but as I have said before, they better bring it. If they slap the standard Xdrive in an //M, there will be blood. They need to design a new system focused on performance if they are going to do it.

[BruceOmega]

Originally Posted by WilliCO

Agreed - though I believe the changes in the F30 you refer to above have come with the LCI. I can only assume they will flow down (up?) to the F32/F36 when it hits LCI next year.

The F30 xDrive items are pre LCI. My 2013 has those options.

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by BruceOmega

The F30 xDrive items are pre LCI. My 2013 has those options.

You're right; I was thinking in terms of the track package, which might just be a new way of grouping those options and a cool set of wheels.

I'm not 100% clear what differences may or may not exist in the LCI xDrive F30 suspension, though. They hint at some having been made but I can find no details.

[iconoclast]

Originally Posted by Thumper333

Agreed, I think it would be great to see some real performance boost to the //Ms with AWD.....but as I have said before, they better bring it. If they slap the standard Xdrive in an //M, there will be blood. They need to design a new system focused on performance if they are going to do it.

they do with torque vectoring diff. i have it on the x5m and i assume it will be similar on the next gen m5 that they plan on offering with xDrive.

[BruceOmega]

Originally Posted by WilliCO

..... I'm not 100% clear what differences may or may not exist in the LCI xDrive F30 suspension, though. They hint at some having been made but I can find no details.

I am also very interested in knowing the answer to this.

Thanks
Bruce

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by iconoclast

they do with torque vectoring diff. i have it on the x5m and i assume it will be similar on the next gen m5 that they plan on offering with xDrive.

Torque vectoring with xDrive (as in the X5M) has been tested as reviewed by UK's AutoCar. No date on the AutoCar site, but assume it was when the 'DPC' diff was first launched.

Dynamic Performance Control

So what does it feel like?

In an exclusive test drive at BMW’s newly established winter test centre in Arjeplog, Sweden this week, Autocar was able to evaluate Dynamic Performance Control on a fleet of modified 530iX saloon and touring models. It's a subtle but worthwhile improvement. By allowing the torque to be distributed in varying degrees to either the left or right-hand rear wheels, the cars equipped with the new BMW system proved more neutral during cornering than those running the existing four-wheel drive xDrive mechanical package. Understeer is well suppressed thanks to the ability of Dynamic Performance Control to direct greater torque to the outside rear wheel, and big oversteer moments are quickly dealt with as the inside rear wheel is favoured. The upshot is improved cornering balance, and an ability to delve deeper into the car’s dynamic repertoire, more of the time. As well as instilling greater confidence in the driver, the new system also reduces the amount of steering input required, which was typically halved as we attacked BMW's winter handling course....

AutoCar states the torque vectoring diff adds 12kgs to the rear axle weight.

HighlandPete

[iconoclast]

welcome to the issue audi has been plagued with for many years (up until the b8)... overweight vehicles that have heavy AWD systems.

[Versipellis]

Originally Posted by BruceOmega

I am also very interested in knowing the answer to this.

Thanks
Bruce

Weren't there also changes from the 3 series to the 4?

[MikeTerp]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

BMW have marketed xDrive in the 3-series as an 'all-weather' vehicle rather than a performance drive. Ride height and suspension options being real indicators of the intended marketplace.


HighlandPete

Agree. This is one reason why, over massive dealer objections, I ordered a 340 RWD instead of Xdrive. In my case, since I have an old Subaru Forester for bad weather, I'll take the weight reduction and related benefits of RWD.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by iconoclast

welcome to the issue audi has been plagued with for many years (up until the b8)... overweight vehicles that have heavy AWD systems.

Not sure I agree

I rode in some B5 S4's last weekend at Mid-Ohio and they were hauling ass. Wasn't the B7 RS4 the first saloon to run a sub 8 minute ring time?

[Thumper333]

Originally Posted by iconoclast

they do with torque vectoring diff. i have it on the x5m and i assume it will be similar on the next gen m5 that they plan on offering with xDrive.

That would be great, it needs to be an option on every single car. I would have HAPPILY paid extra to have true LSDs on my F31. Audi only charges $1100 for their Sport Diff so I would assume BMW would try to stay in the same range and that is NOTHING for such an option. Especially on a lease where you only pay for about 40% of it LOL

Originally Posted by iconoclast

welcome to the issue audi has been plagued with for many years (up until the b8)... overweight vehicles that have heavy AWD systems.

Originally Posted by drob23

Not sure I agree

Same.

I mean, you're saying the B8 isn't overweight? LOL

It weighs as much as my F31 wagon.

Still, the added weight is more than acceptable for the benefits of the system.

[BruceOmega]

Originally Posted by Versipellis

Weren't there also changes from the 3 series to the 4?

Have not followed that outside of:

- I checked the ordering and pricing guides for the 4 series and it seems to be the same as the 3 series in that BMW does not offer the 704 sport suspension with xDrive.

- A BMW rep in a driving event described the even numbered series as lower and sportier than the more upright and traditional odd numbered series.

I would be interested in knowing if there is any difference in the suspension and handling of a 435i xDrive versus a 335i xDrive.

Bruce

[drob23]

Originally Posted by Thumper333

I mean, you're saying the B8 isn't overweight? LOL

It weighs as much as my F31 wagon.

Still, the added weight is more than acceptable for the benefits of the system.

He is saying that Audi has been plagued by heavy AWD cars for years that has only been solved by the B8. The B7 RS4 was incredibly quick (as demonstrated by the sub 8 min ring time) and Audi was a great player in Trans AM, IMSA, DTM while they were still allowed to run the quattro AWD systems before it was banned. For being too much of an advantage.

Everyone on the internet loves to keyboard race about how vehicle X is sooooo shitty because of reason Y...and my point is the engineers learned how to make a great car out of it. Drivers learned how to be fast with it. Again, the B7 RS4, a heavy/understeering pig/no sports diff ran a sub 8 minute ring time.

Is the B8 heavy...yea of course...I've never challenged that. Not sure why you are turning the conversation into that. But it was stated that the sports diff solved the problem. So every prior Audi sucked because no sports diff?

[Thumper333]

Originally Posted by drob23

Is the B8 heavy...yea of course...I've never challenged that. Not sure why you are turning the conversation into that. But it was stated that the sports diff solved the problem. So every prior Audi sucked because no sports diff?

Um, no. I was making a joke. You notice I own an S4........we are both on audizine as well.......so........lol

It obviously soared way over your head.

The sport diff is a great item....for hardcore drivers and track events, which is why it is a must on the M3. It is NOT a must on the S4 (although Quattro is much superior to Xdrive anyway) nor do cars without one suck. No where did I say that, my S4 doesn't have one. That's really only because of a special deal I worked that drew from dealer stock, but again....I track my cars.

I have no idea why you are taking the conversation to wherever we are going......I don't even know where you went as nearly everything you are responding with has absolutely no relevance or link to what I posted......at no point did I say or even imply any of the things you are trying to lecture me on.......so, I'm just......lost.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by Thumper333

Um, no. I was making a joke. You notice I own an S4........we are both on audizine as well.......so........lol

It obviously soared way over your head.

The sport diff is a great item....for hardcore drivers and track events, which is why it is a must on the M3. It is NOT a must on the S4 (although Quattro is much superior to Xdrive anyway) nor do cars without one suck. No where did I say that, my S4 doesn't have one. That's really only because of a special deal I worked that drew from dealer stock, but again....I track my cars.

I have no idea why you are taking the conversation to wherever we are going......I don't even know where you went as nearly everything you are responding with has absolutely no relevance or link to what I posted......at no point did I say or even imply any of the things you are trying to lecture me on.......so, I'm just......lost.

Sorry, I did misread your post. Thought you were agreeing with the other guy and lecturing me. The way you quoted it was confusing to me, but it's clear now

Through the course of tracking this car I've been stunned by how good some cars are that I thought were trash based on the magazines/interwebs. So just trying to stick up for non-sports diff quattro.

[iconoclast]

Originally Posted by drob23

Not sure I agree

I rode in some B5 S4's last weekend at Mid-Ohio and they were hauling ass. Wasn't the B7 RS4 the first saloon to run a sub 8 minute ring time?

i didn't say they were slow but since audi switched to a and s taxonomy they have been plagued with heavy, unbalanced vehicles with lots of understeer. i have owned several and not until after the b8 platforms and a great deal of aluminum parts has audi been able to shed weight and get closer to 50/50 weight distribution.

Originally Posted by Thumper333

That would be great, it needs to be an option on every single car. I would have HAPPILY paid extra to have true LSDs on my F31. Audi only charges $1100 for their Sport Diff so I would assume BMW would try to stay in the same range and that is NOTHING for such an option. Especially on a lease where you only pay for about 40% of it LOL

I mean, you're saying the B8 isn't overweight? LOL

It weighs as much as my F31 wagon.

Still, the added weight is more than acceptable for the benefits of the system.

agreed. if sport diff / drive select was offered on more vehicles it would be much better.

my comment about the b8 wasn't that it was lighter but that the weight distribution was more in-line with bmw's and not nose heavy as per usual. engines were finally falling on top of front axles and more aluminum was used.

Originally Posted by Thumper333

Um, no. I was making a joke. You notice I own an S4........we are both on audizine as well.......so........lol

i've been a member on az since '01 (although my sn states 04 or 05 because thats when their servers went down and everyone's account was reset), aw since '99, quattroworld since the great exodus.) iirc you had a nogaro blue b5 s4 back in the day when i had a b5 rs4 conversion.

Originally Posted by drob23

Everyone on the internet loves to keyboard race about how vehicle X is sooooo shitty because of reason Y...and my point is the engineers learned how to make a great car out of it. Drivers learned how to be fast with it. Again, the B7 RS4, a heavy/understeering pig/no sports diff ran a sub 8 minute ring time.

Is the B8 heavy...yea of course...I've never challenged that. Not sure why you are turning the conversation into that. But it was stated that the sports diff solved the problem. So every prior Audi sucked because no sports diff?

i am not keyboard anything i owned a modified rs4. it was quick but if you didn't do a carbon clean every 10k miles it was 225whp and nose heavy. even after ample modifications it still felt heavy however a high revving v8 when operating properly is very hard to beat. the e46 m3 beats the b7 rs4 in a straight line but the rs4 takes it in corners. either way i am speaking from my ownership experience not specs on a piece of paper. i know i may be new around these parts but i am definitely not new to european cars and driving them as designed... both in the stock and modified/upgraded forms.