[lens]

Originally Posted by JSTDR1V

Best quote ever.

The true answer lies above, and here:

1. If you live in a climate that goes below 40º for a sustained period of time, and has snow, a dedicated set of winter tires should be on your vehicle, regardless of drivetrain

2. If you care about (and can tell) the minuscule difference between driving dynamics of XDrive and RWD during daily driving, then you should buy RWD

3. If you must be at work (i.e. are a 24/7/365 shift worker) at all costs you should get XDrive

4. If you track your car more than 1x a year you should get RWD

5. If you're an idiot, and don't know how to drive in the snow, you're going to end up in a ditch or stuck irregardless of your drivetrain, so you should get what you want and the number of a friendly towing company. Don't even bother with the tires, nor making sure they're bald or not. Don't even check the pressures! (we are speaking hypothetically here, I'm not insinuating that any of you personally are idiots)


How many times do we need to have these common sense conversations? Now let's have a real conversation, auto vs manual!

Auto shifts faster than manual, good for drag strips, and is better for daily driving in densely populated areas.

Manual is more fun, and better on tracks, and backroads or places where theres little to no traffic.

But as per normal, to each his/her own, some prefer manual no matter what. Some prefer auto/DCT, there is no better transmission nowadays.

/End debate between auto vs manua, before people start arguing.

[fusion0389]

I picked xDrive, however only because I was ordering my car and could get the Dynamic Handling Package. I like xDrive because it gives me better traction when accelerating in less than perfect weather conditions. This includes winter weather, but also helps out tremendously in the rain or pretty much anytime the surface of the road has dirt\gravel\sand on it. If xDrive didnt have an option for a sportier suspension (DHP) I would have gone RWD 100%.

[Limegrntaln]

Im shopping around for a new 435i and Ive come to a crossroad in this aspect. Its funny reading all of the replies here, and 95% are talking about how the cars handle different in the winter weather. And a few are talking about braking and corner ability. Interestingly enough, to me, these all seem like suit and tie answers. Like someone driving the family minivan to football practice in the winter. Im looking at them for a totally different reason. Traction... Eventually, there will be a lot of power available to the F30 cars, just like the E90 cars. Im simply looking for something that isn't going to smoke the tires with 500+ horsepower. In other cars I've owned, one huge limiting factor, was traction. One of the main contemplations for me, is, how much highway power am I going to lose? Do the RWD and AWD have similar 60-80mph times? With other cars, that I've had in both RWD and AWD, the AWD needed about 50 or more hp to pull on the RWD car on the highway. Looking at the 1/4 mile times, 0-60 times quotes the cars 13.0 vs 13.1. 1 tenth, I may be willing to give up, but not much more. I love the sure footedness of AWD around the corners, at a higher speed. I like the feeling of the front wheels pulling the car around the corner while you get the slight slippage, in the rear.

[howiegu]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Mine work just fine as well in New Hampshire. I can go through six inches of snow without a hitch, and no issues with stopping. That includes in the mountains, which I don't believe you have. Most of those advising against xDrive don't have it. Most who advise for having xDrive do have it. The main concern is don't think that either xDrive or snows make you invincible. Most of the vehicles we see sitting in the median strips the day after a storm are AWD SUVs with Massachusetts plates who's owners think it's a good idea to go 70 in a snowstorm.

"Most of the vehicles we see sitting in the median strips the day after a storm are AWD SUVs with Massachusetts plates..."

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by Limegrntaln

Im shopping around for a new 435i and Ive come to a crossroad in this aspect. Its funny reading all of the replies here, and 95% are talking about how the cars handle different in the winter weather. And a few are talking about braking and corner ability. Interestingly enough, to me, these all seem like suit and tie answers. Like someone driving the family minivan to football practice in the winter. Im looking at them for a totally different reason. Traction... Eventually, there will be a lot of power available to the F30 cars, just like the E90 cars. Im simply looking for something that isn't going to smoke the tires with 500+ horsepower. In other cars I've owned, one huge limiting factor, was traction. One of the main contemplations for me, is, how much highway power am I going to lose? Do the RWD and AWD have similar 60-80mph times? With other cars, that I've had in both RWD and AWD, the AWD needed about 50 or more hp to pull on the RWD car on the highway. Looking at the 1/4 mile times, 0-60 times quotes the cars 13.0 vs 13.1. 1 tenth, I may be willing to give up, but not much more. I love the sure footedness of AWD around the corners, at a higher speed. I like the feeling of the front wheels pulling the car around the corner while you get the slight slippage, in the rear.

You must be confusing the xDrive with the Audi S4's Quattro AWD system with a torque vectoring rear differential.

As for the "feeling" you are describing, what are you talking about? These cars are set up to under-steer at the limit (AWD even more so). That means that your front is plowing (...not pulling) away from your intended direction of travel. Also, when you're exiting out of a turn, your outer rear tire is most critical for acceleration. Lack of traction is an issue when you're at M3 power levels or above.

If you still insist on the feeling of "the front wheels pulling the car around the corner", I recommend you remove the rear drive shaft. This modification also reduces weight.

[Ali Shiralian]

Oh no....not again

[tgyberg]

My name is Tory and I'm an xDriveaholic. :P - On city streets, even when driving well over the speed limit, the heavier xDrive car is close enough to the rear wheel car. I dont think the dry weather handling is an issue for most. Now in the snow with snow tires? Woooohoooo!

[MoveOn112]

[QUOTE=tgyberg;18968837] the heavier xDrive car is close enough to the rear wheel car. I dont think the dry weather handling is an issue for most.

I believe "close enough" is a correct description. Yes, my former F20 (RWD) was more fun. Then again, after 15 inches of snow last weekend, I didn't miss it (too much).

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by tgyberg

My name is Tory and I'm an xDriveaholic. :P - On city streets, even when driving well over the speed limit, the heavier xDrive car is close enough to the rear wheel car. I dont think the dry weather handling is an issue for most. Now in the snow with snow tires? Woooohoooo!

[QUOTE=MoveOn112;19223913]

Originally Posted by tgyberg

the heavier xDrive car is close enough to the rear wheel car. I dont think the dry weather handling is an issue for most.

I believe "close enough" is a correct description. Yes, my former F20 (RWD) was more fun. Then again, after 15 inches of snow last weekend, I didn't miss it (too much).

I agree. I'm Phil and I'm a RWD addict. But I have to admit the handling compromise of xDrive is greatly exaggerated.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

All seasons in Chicago? Better park it in the garage until April.

Exactly!

[eluded]

Originally Posted by chaungo

/End debate between auto vs manua, before people start arguing.

Rwd & AWD both come with MT. #WINNING

[Piggieback]

Depends, if you think about it, heavy snow has a very short shelf life due to all the salt being dumped. On the flip side, there is a loss in fun factor by going x-drive, and thats year round. So, the question is, are you willing to accept the shortcomings for an AWD system, in return for, mediocre gains in performance around the city?. Remember, with all season tires, you still have to stop like everyone else.

[kolosy]

i like that this thread is still going 2 months after i've taken delivery of my rwd 340

and i put Blizzak WS70s on a set of 17s to go with it ... which, for the record, is complete overkill for Chicago. They handle like shit. I'm going to swap them out for LM32s for next season, which I've had before and loved.

[cptcrunch]

I'm ordering a 340i rwd and was impressed by the video where the 340xi accelerated 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. This made me consider ordering x-drive, but honestly would only want it for the increased acceleration time. Per BMW, the difference in 0-60 is .2 seconds between the rwd and x-drive version, where the x-drive is .2 seconds faster.

I have a dedicated winter set which has performed extremely well on my e90 335d. So is x-drive worth it for quickiest 0-60 times plus added traction in poor weather? Not sure, to be honest. It costs $2000 more, requires extra diff service and has "worse driving dynamics" than rwd. But with my order of the m adaptive suspension, maybe the x-drive will handle like rwd. Still, $2000 for .2 seconds 0-60, whats the ROI on that?

[CaptBreadbeard]

It's been shown so many times it's beyond ridiculous, but proper winter tires beat drivetrain configuration every time. I'm in VA with xDrive (F31, so no choice) and I still put winter performance tires on my car. The life cycle costs between xDrive on all seasons and RWD with two sets are tires are similar (capital costs, running costs, maintenance costs, etc.). The RWD with the proper set of tires for the season will have more traction than the xDrive. The only reason not to do it is the convenience of one set of all seasons. Also, everyone focuses on getting going where AWD has a definite advantage, all else being equal, but ignores the fact that not being able to stop in time or turn to avoid an accident are probably more important. Yes, with proper driving skills and attention, you can get by with all season, but you are just getting by.

Given all the things we do in the name of safety, I still don't get why we don't follow much of Europe's lead and mandate the proper use of tires.


FYI, if you do get winter tires, make sure you understand the differences between proper studless snow and ice tires (snowy/icy roads) vs. winter performance (cold/dry/wet roads). Both are vastly better than all seasons, but on a high performance car I typically go with winter performance to avoid the dull feeling true snow tires may provide.

Edit: Besides, in VA I will never see enough snow to need true snow/ice tires. I do see a lot of cold dry/wet roads though and then you can't beat winter performance tires.

[CaptBreadbeard]

Originally Posted by cptcrunch

I'm ordering a 340i rwd and was impressed by the video where the 340xi accelerated 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. This made me consider ordering x-drive, but honestly would only want it for the increased acceleration time. Per BMW, the difference in 0-60 is .2 seconds between the rwd and x-drive version, where the x-drive is .2 seconds faster.

I have a dedicated winter set which has performed extremely well on my e90 335d. So is x-drive worth it for quickiest 0-60 times plus added traction in poor weather? Not sure, to be honest. It costs $2000 more, requires extra diff service and has "worse driving dynamics" than rwd. But with my order of the m adaptive suspension, maybe the x-drive will handle like rwd. Still, $2000 for .2 seconds 0-60, whats the ROI on that?

Out of curiosity, how many times do you perform 0-60 launches instead of 5-60MPH or more passing like maneuvers? 0-60 is dominated by the available traction and the engine/gearings ability to get the RPMs into the peak power band. Perhaps decades ago its was a reasonably useful metric for performance, but today it's meh. Besides, only the fastest times are ever posted over many, many tries.

[CaptBreadbeard]

Originally Posted by kolosy

i like that this thread is still going 2 months after i've taken delivery of my rwd 340

and i put Blizzak WS70s on a set of 17s to go with it ... which, for the record, is complete overkill for Chicago. They handle like shit. I'm going to swap them out for LM32s for next season, which I've had before and loved.

Probably because we end up posting before getting through all the replies! If you want better dry/wet road handling, look for winter performance tires like PA4s or Sottozero 3s. They still have a bit of tread squirm, but handle much better than true snow tires. Obviously, to achieve this they give up some snow/ice traction, but are still vastly better than all seasons.

[Baldmonkey22]

I had 3 subarus 2 wrx's and an STI, the awd was great but made things almost too easy, go around a corner while it's wet and punch it and it just goes, with the STI and all of its diff's front rear and center it was amazing. In the snow even with summer tires it would just hook up and go I would just drive around the other cars that were sitting there spinning their front or rear tires (stop and go traffic up a hill). Now the 340i RWD I've broken the rear loose a few times and it's no big deal, although we don't get much snow here anymore just frozen water in places lately. If I lived in an area that got real winters I would have kept the STI or would have went xdrive.

[NOITALL]

Originally Posted by cptcrunch

I'm ordering a 340i rwd and was impressed by the video where the 340xi accelerated 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. This made me consider ordering x-drive, but honestly would only want it for the increased acceleration time. Per BMW, the difference in 0-60 is .2 seconds between the rwd and x-drive version, where the x-drive is .2 seconds faster.

I have a dedicated winter set which has performed extremely well on my e90 335d. So is x-drive worth it for quickiest 0-60 times plus added traction in poor weather? Not sure, to be honest. It costs $2000 more, requires extra diff service and has "worse driving dynamics" than rwd. But with my order of the m adaptive suspension, maybe the x-drive will handle like rwd. Still, $2000 for .2 seconds 0-60, whats the ROI on that?

It depends on what you want for PERFORMANCE. The difference of 0.2 second is on a dry hot pavement.

On a snow/ice covered pavement or very slick winter asphalt, the difference will be more like 5 seconds...

That said: RWD for the win. I don't care if the guy beside me launches faster. There will always be someone faster. They won't have as much fun and pleasure as me.

Cheers

[Outlaw 06]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Maybe 17s will fit. There's a thread by a guy in Michigan with the Track package/M Sport brakes on his 2er on Bimmerfest. I'll find it and link it tomorrow.

The answer is YES (on the F30 328i with M-Sport).

I had the following winter tire/wheel set-up for my 2007 BMW 335i with Sport Package: 17x8 Rial Salerno wheels and 225/45R-17 Dunlop Winter Sport M3 RFT tires (purchased at Tire Rack a few years ago).

I'm currently using these same 17x8 winter wheels on my 2013 BMW 328i with M-Sport Package: The only change needed was mounting 225/50R-17 Dunlop Winter Sport M3 RFT tires (the 50 sidewall increases the tire OD to 25.86 inches, which matches the tire OD of the stock 18" staggered summer tires/wheels). The brake clearance and offset of these wheels work well on my car.

It's also interesting that Tire Rack didn't offer this set-up as a winter wheel package option for my F30 328i, they only offer 18" packages.

[NOITALL]

Originally Posted by TJDiCandido

The answer is YES.

I had the following winter tire/wheel set-up for my 2007 BMW 335i with Sport Package: 17x8 Rial Salerno wheels and 225/45R-17 Dunlop Winter Sport M3 RFT tires.

I'm currently using these same 17x8 winter wheels on my 2013 BMW 328i with M-Sport Package: The only change needed was mounting 225/50R-17 Dunlop Winter Sport M3 RFT tires (the 50 sidewall increases the tire OD to 25.86 inches, which matches the tire OD of the stock 18" staggered summer tires/wheels). The brake clearance and offset of these wheels work well on my car.

You shouldn't use 225/50 17 as that is over 3% taller than the OEM specs.
OEM is 225/40 18 or 225/45 17. They differ 0.4% only (so they match).

I bet your car with 225/50 is, albeit "more cushioned" or comfortable, slower, worse in curves and worse when braking. These are the trade offs for going with taller tires if you're looking for more "rubber" for comfort.

Cheers

[cptcrunch]

Originally Posted by I'm wrong

You shouldn't use 225/50 17 as that is over 3% taller than the OEM specs.
OEM is 225/40 18 or 225/45 17. They differ 0.4% only (so they match).

I bet your car with 225/50 is, albeit "more cushioned" or comfortable, slower, worse in curves and worse when braking. These are the trade offs for going with taller tires if you're looking for more "rubber" for comfort.

Cheers

So if the front is 225/45/18 and rear is 255/40/18s, whats the correct winter tire? Based on the tire calculator (tacoma site: https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc...0r18-225-50r17) 225/50/17s are the correct size.