[JimKden]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

229.51 falls under C3 and 229.50 falls under A3/B4.

The Amsoil in question lists both C3 and 229.51 as well as an official approval under 229.50 which is not possible.

I see for 0W-20 product AFE has spec ACEA C5 listed but not C3 and not A3/A4.
0W-20 product EZT, has sec CC3 plus a VW only spec, this oil was developed for VW only.

[JimKden]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

You absolutely must be the best example of Dunning-Kruger in this thread.

Those certs are all for doing business in Europe and mean nothing to do with doing business in the US. But if that makes you feel good.

When LL17FE+ is met there is not need to mention LSPI. I don't see that on the certificates posted for other oils either.

You must be an insider to know that Amsoil is balking at approvals

Their products have have performed well for me since 1978. I have had it lab tested ok after using one batch for 35000 miles. What's the problem.

[AspektUSA]

Originally Posted by JimKden

Those certs are all for doing business in Europe and mean nothing to do with doing business in the US. But if that makes you feel good.

If you cracked open your owners manual from just about any European car manufacturer, you'll be given a viscosity range and an oil spec. These certificates are what enables companies like Mobil 1 to list approvals on their bottle and make the oil fit for service. There is a clear difference in M-M warranty act preventing BMW from only warranting oil services done in their workshop, to oils that actually meet BMW standards. Amsoil doesn't, so they don't get the cert.

When LL17FE+ is met there is not need to mention LSPI. I don't see that on the certificates posted for other oils either.

https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/press/...moly-4461.html

The BMW Longlife-17 FE+ approval is intended specifically to reduce the risk of LSPI. LSPI stands for low speed pre-ignition and means that the mixture ignites spontaneously in the combustion chamber at low speeds before the ignition spark. This can lead to motor knocking and therefore serious motor damage. This phenomenon is not entirely understood yet. But this risk can be reduced by using the right motor oil.

Love the idea that my uncertified scamsoil is sitting in my turbo on a start/stop cycle, boiling away because it's MLM junk.

You must be an insider to know that Amsoil is balking at approvals

Because they don't have any, and would very, very clearly list them if they did. Grasping this is is beyond you it seems.

Their products have have performed well for me since 1978. I have had it lab tested ok after using one batch for 35000 miles. What's the problem.

You're giving bad advice on a forum, hence you're going to get raked over the coals a bit.

Can we move on now?

[Billfitz]

Nah, I bet this dead horse could stand being beaten for at least another two pages.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by JimKden

I see for 0W-20 product AFE has spec ACEA C5 listed but not C3 and not A3/A4.
0W-20 product EZT, has sec CC3 plus a VW only spec, this oil was developed for VW only.

C5 is similar to C3 but for Xw-20
https://www.acea.be/news/article/ace...ly-2020-update. Hit hyperlink REV3.

[JimKden]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

Can we move on now?

Yes, I'm getting tired of you insisting that in order to have an oil for use in a BMW the company has to buy it's way in as per the good ol boy system of Europe. It ain't that way in the USA, we operate on a free market system.

[AspektUSA]

Originally Posted by JimKden

Yes, I'm getting tired of you insisting that in order to have an oil for use in a BMW the company has to buy it's way in as per the good ol boy system of Europe. It ain't that way in the USA, we operate on a free market system.

I'm sorry your brand of choice doesn't meet the required standard that more than a half dozen other oil companies are able to hit.

Have you tried asking Amsoil if you can pay even more for your platinum double diamond status?

Here's another 6 oils that meet BMW 17 FE+, but sadly no scamsoil:


ELF EVOLUTION FULL-TECH APX SAE 0W-20 TOTAL Lubrifiants
Mabanol Xenon Alpha FE SAE 0W-20 Mabanol GmbH & Co. KG
RAVENOL EFS SAE 0W-20 Ravensberger Schmierstoffvertrieb GmbH
ROWE HIGHTEC SYNT RS C5 SAE 0W-20 ROWE MINERALÖLWERK GMBH
SRS ViVA 1 ecosynth FE SAE 0W-20 SRS Schmierstoff Vertrieb GmbH
TOTAL QUARTZ INEO DYNAMICS SAE 0W-20 TOTAL Lubrifiants


You're spreading actual disinformation at this stage.

[JimKden]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

I'm sorry your brand of choice doesn't meet the required standard that more than a half dozen other oil companies are able to hit.

Have you tried asking Amsoil if you can pay even more for your platinum double diamond status?

Here's another 6 oils that meet BMW 17 FE+, but sadly no scamsoil:


ELF EVOLUTION FULL-TECH APX SAE 0W-20 TOTAL Lubrifiants
Mabanol Xenon Alpha FE SAE 0W-20 Mabanol GmbH & Co. KG
RAVENOL EFS SAE 0W-20 Ravensberger Schmierstoffvertrieb GmbH
ROWE HIGHTEC SYNT RS C5 SAE 0W-20 ROWE MINERALÖLWERK GMBH
SRS ViVA 1 ecosynth FE SAE 0W-20 SRS Schmierstoff Vertrieb GmbH
TOTAL QUARTZ INEO DYNAMICS SAE 0W-20 TOTAL Lubrifiants


You're spreading actual disinformation at this stage.

Nice list of oils produced in europe for the european good ol boy way of doing business. The approval letter posted so far do not come from the legal business entity for BMW in the USA and so mean nothing for the domestic market.

The Amsoil company produces over 55 different engine oils for the gasoline, diesel and natural gas fuels, in addition to almost a dozen gear and transmission lubes , compressor and hydraulic oils. The BMW market is a drop in the bucket of their overall market base. Responding to a self anointed oil guru who has his own ideas about what it takes to market products becomes meaningless. The industry itself becomes it's own policeman. Over the past 40 years that I have know the company there have been many stone throwers including other oil companies and all eventually go away.

[AspektUSA]

Originally Posted by JimKden

Nice list of oils produced in europe for the european good ol boy way of doing business. The approval letter posted so far do not come from the legal business entity for BMW in the USA and so mean nothing for the domestic market.

The Amsoil company produces over 55 different engine oils for the gasoline, diesel and natural gas fuels, in addition to almost a dozen gear and transmission lubes , compressor and hydraulic oils. The BMW market is a drop in the bucket of their overall market base. Responding to a self anointed oil guru who has his own ideas about what it takes to market products becomes meaningless. The industry itself becomes it's own policeman. Over the past 40 years that I have know the company there have been many stone throwers including other oil companies and all eventually go away.

This is entirely false, and is disinformation.

Here is an actual R&D engineeer from an actual oil company discussing API vs ACEA vs Manufacturer Approvals:
4:26

If it's a good ole boy system, why is every other oil company able to get a certification from VWAG/BMW/Mercedes? Why did Amsoil pay for the process for the older formulations of their euro line?

Say what you will about Liqui Moly being (truthfully) a bit overrated, they do put their money where their mouth is and actually attain manufacturer approvals for their products - unlike some companies.

Again, I'm sorry you've wasted so much money and breath on being an Amsoil ambassador - maybe they'll refund your expensive membership fees if you ask nicely?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

This is entirely false, and is disinformation.

Here is an actual R&D engineeer from an actual oil company discussing API vs ACEA vs Manufacturer Approvals:
4:26

If it's a good ole boy system, why is every other oil company able to get a certification from VWAG/BMW/Mercedes? Why did Amsoil pay for the process for the older formulations of their euro line?

Say what you will about Liqui Moly being (truthfully) a bit overrated, they do put their money where their mouth is and actually attain manufacturer approvals for their products - unlike some companies.

Again, I'm sorry you've wasted so much money and breath on being an Amsoil ambassador - maybe they'll refund your expensive membership fees if you ask nicely?

Don't forget the ILSAC. They seem to bridge Japan, US and Europe.

[idopullups]

Back on topic a little bit. Why does my engine previously have BMW LL01 as the recommended oil (from the 2014 user manual). Almost all LL01 oils are 5W-30, and all are either 0W or 5W, 30 or 40.

Now BMW recommends Longlife-17 FE+? All of which are 0W-20? This seems like a bit of a deviation from the original spec surely?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by idopullups

Back on topic a little bit. Why does my engine previously have BMW LL01 as the recommended oil (from the 2014 user manual). Almost all LL01 oils are 5W-30, and all are either 0W or 5W, 30 or 40.

Now BMW recommends Longlife-17 FE+? All of which are 0W-20? This seems like a bit of a deviation from the original spec surely?

Back spec'ing is not uncommon in the automotive world.

[idopullups]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Back spec'ing is not uncommon in the automotive world.

So 0w-20 is what I/ other N20/N26 F30 owners should do?

Maybe I'm just stuck on my old 5w-30 ways but it seems ironic to me that countless hours have been spent on the forums, backseat engineering the minute difference between whether 5w-30 or 5w-40 is better for your engine. Just for bmw to completely change the game on us.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by idopullups

So 0w-20 is what I/ other N20/N26 F30 owners should do?

Maybe I'm just stuck on my old 5w-30 ways but it seems ironic to me that countless hours have been spent on the forums, backseat engineering the minute difference between whether 5w-30 or 5w-40 is better for your engine. Just for bmw to completely change the game on us.

Run can basically run whatever Euro oil you want. I wouldn't sweat it.

[sspade]

@idopullups

I would not run 20 weight oil. Much too thin and only chosen by BMW (after LCI) to fluff up their fleet wide fuel economy numbers.

The vast majority of N2X owners on here are running 30 or 40 weight as originally spec'd by BMW (as you indicated in your chart).

[AspektUSA]

Originally Posted by sspade

@idopullups

I would not run 20 weight oil. Much too thin and only chosen by BMW to fluff up their fleet wide fuel economy numbers.

The vast majority of N2X owners on here are running 30 or 40 weight as originally spec'd by BMW (as you indicated in your chart).

Unless you've actually gotten an oil pressure warning because you're ripping your engine so hot, there's no reason to think 0w-20 isn't totally fine when BMW says it is.

[sspade]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

Unless you've actually gotten an oil pressure warning because you're ripping your engine so hot, there's no reason to think 0w-20 isn't totally fine when BMW says it is.

Okay

The recommended oil for the N20 is 40 weight... per my owners manual.

[sspade]

I use Castrol 0w40 because thats what BMW recommends. They even go as far to say using anything lighter than 30 may cause engine damage.

Go head, run 20 weight

[AspektUSA]

Originally Posted by sspade

I use Castrol 0w40 because thats what BMW recommends. They even go as far to say using anything lighter than 30 may cause engine damage.

Go head, run 20 weight

I think for N20 guys, you've got bigger fish to fry than your oil weight worries.

Us in the B48/58 realm have no real reason to not use 0w-20.

[idopullups]

Originally Posted by sspade

I use Castrol 0w40 because thats what BMW recommends. They even go as far to say using anything lighter than 30 may cause engine damage.

Go head, run 20 weight

Again though, that is EXACTLY what my owners manual says as well.

"ensure that the engine oil belongs to one of the viscosity grades SAE 0W-40, SAE 0W-30, SAE 5W-40, SAE 5W-30"

And I can link 50 threads debating which of the above is best for your N20/N26 depending on climate/ driving style/ engine age etc etc.

Now the BMW technical service manuals state 0W-20 (LL-FE 17+) is recommended.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...enance/1PSryV8

I'm sticking with my 5W-30 but I just find it funny is all.

[BMWILUVU]

My dealer put in 0W-20 the last time they did mine. I did not notice until I changed the oil myself and sent it in for analysis. After 6 thousand miles, Blackstone detected much above average wear on iron, copper, aluminum. I would never put in 20 weight oil the way I drive.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by idopullups

Now the BMW technical service manuals state 0W-20 (LL-FE 17+) is recommended.

They made the change to 0w-20 for CAFE reasons. Then dealers started using 0w-20 for earlier models as well, because they didn't want to have to stock more than one SKU. That more or less forced BMW to revise the service manuals. The acronym for why is CYA, but those in the know are aware that it's all happy horseshit.