[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by LA1Z24

Is there an IC testing thread with all the data? See all this has me wondering where the ER intercooler stacks up.

for the comparison to be helpful, the intercoolers must be tested on a similar car with the same ambient temp, mods, and fuel.

No point In creating one thread to compare data as the logs will be pulled from different cars with different tunes, running in different temps.

ER is an excellent intercooler; it's got a high fin density, is not too heavy, has superb finish quality, and is the only intercooler made in the US.

the only drawback for me is the single core vs. the dual-core most brands use

I have created a thread to discuss the different intercoolers.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...light=ultimate

[harkes]

Don't understand the comparison to stock...? Anything is better than stock.

A comparison to the VRSF/ER/Wagner would be more useful - no?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by harkes

Don't understand the comparison to stock...? Anything is better than stock.

A comparison to the VRSF/ER/Wagner would be more useful - no?

Not really no.

With the stock intercooler, you get timing corrections which leads to power loss.

When you upgrade to a good intercooler, the goal is to eliminate any timing correction that's due to high temp.

If you compare different brands, especially the good ones, they will all do that. So you'll see people start comparing which IAT numbers are lower.
This derails the thread as
1- it does not make any real-world performance difference as long as timing and boost are the same
2- it's never accurate as the data logs are done on different cars, different conditions


The summary is that the stock intercooler leads to timing corrections, if your upgraded intercooler takes care of that, your car is performing at its best.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Not really no.

With the stock intercooler, you get timing corrections which leads to power loss.

When you upgrade to a good intercooler, the goal is to eliminate any timing correction that's due to high temp.

If you compare different brands, especially the good ones, they will all do that. So you'll see people start comparing which IAT numbers are lower.
This derails the thread as
1- it does not make any real-world performance difference as long as timing and boost are the same
2- it's never accurate as the data logs are done on different cars, different conditions


The summary is that the stock intercooler leads to timing corrections, if your upgraded intercooler takes care of that, your car is performing at its best.

Half correct.. you forgot the part about where the lower the iat the better.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by n55david

Half correct.. you forgot the part about where the lower the iat the better.

Yup... 20psi at 75F has more air molecules than 20psi at 100F... more air = more fuel = more power.

Also the problem with most IC debates is that they are trying to compare ICs on paper. Each person should evaluate their IC on their car. Its pretty simple - if your IATs are increasing too much in a single pull, or increasing too much from the duty cycle you are driving under (back to back pulls, track usage, etc), then you need to upgrade your IC. That's why the "best" IC for one person might be different than the "best" for someone else. This is a test anyone with datalogging capabilities can do...

[714BMW]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Yup... 20psi at 75F has more air molecules than 20psi at 100F... more air = more fuel = more power.

Also the problem with most IC debates is that they are trying to compare ICs on paper. Each person should evaluate their IC on their car. Its pretty simple - if your IATs are increasing too much in a single pull, or increasing too much from the duty cycle you are driving under (back to back pulls, track usage, etc), then you need to upgrade your IC. That's why the "best" IC for one person might be different than the "best" for someone else. This is a test anyone with datalogging capabilities can do...

If I had a dollar for every intercooler thread Jeremy took part in, I would be in the Porsche forums

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by n55david

Half correct.. you forgot the part about where the lower the iat the better.

Half correct.

15-20 lower IAT is better; 5 IAT lower will not make any difference on the street.

Also, you forgot the part that more fins equal more weight. If you are nitpicking the density of air molecules, you need to consider the weight. You cant pick and choose what suits your argument better.

Again, all this conversation is useless for daily driving. Some people tend to make this a lot more complicated than it needs to. I feel that you want something to discuss, so you start nitpicking, and that's fine; keep the forum alive.

But again, for a daily driver, if your intercooler keeps the target timing and boost, the car performs at the max on the street. In this case, The intercooler, even an eBay one, is doing a great job.

If your IAT is rising and you are getting timing corrections, your intercooler needs to be upgraded. I don't care what brand it is and how much it costs.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by 714BMW

If I had a dollar for every intercooler thread Jeremy took part in, I would be in the Porsche forums

If i had a dollar for every post, i would have over $6,000

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Half correct.

15-20 lower IAT is better; 5 IAT lower will not make any difference on the street.

Also, you forgot the part that more fins equal more weight. If you are nitpicking the density of air molecules, you need to consider the weight. You cant pick and choose what suits your argument better.

Again, all this conversation is useless for daily driving. Some people tend to make this a lot more complicated than it needs to. I feel that you want something to discuss, so you start nitpicking, and that's fine; keep the forum alive.

But again, for a daily driver, if your intercooler keeps the target timing and boost, the car performs at the max on the street. In this case, The intercooler, even an eBay one, is doing a great job.

If your IAT is rising and you are getting timing corrections, your intercooler needs to be upgraded. I don't care what brand it is and how much it costs.

I just like the warm and fuzzy feeling i get when i look in my logs and see my IAT line flat or with a negative slope even when I'm WOT for 10+ seconds

Of course, other people judge their IC using different criteria

[n55david]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I just like the warm and fuzzy feeling i get when i look in my logs and see my IAT line flat or with a negative slope even when I'm WOT for 10+ seconds

Of course, other people judge their IC using different criteria

You and anyone else who cars about performance

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

If i had a dollar for every post, i would have over $6,000



I just like the warm and fuzzy feeling i get when i look in my logs and see my IAT line flat or with a negative slope even when I'm WOT for 10+ seconds

Of course, other people judge their IC using different criteria

that has nothing to do with what I said, but I'm glad you are enjoying your intercooler you got a good one.

it keeps your temps in check, and your ECU reaches the target ignition timing and boost. That's a good performer.

Originally Posted by n55david

You and anyone else who cars about performance

Performance is based on ignition timing and boost. Read the post again.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Performance is based on ignition timing and boost. Read the post again.

And iat's

You are aware is not actual boost that dictates power correct and that it's the amount of oxygen you can get into the cylinder and that the colder the air the more dense it is with oxygen and based on air flow, air temp and wide band 02 readings the computer decides how much fuel to add right? The more fuel you can burn the more power you'll make and you want the most oxygen you can get etc.. and again, density and fuel amount is key.. AND AGAIN, the cooler the air the more dense it is etc. You can Google it.. its physics

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

that has nothing to do with what I said, but I'm glad you are enjoying your intercooler you got a good one.

it keeps your temps in check, and your ECU reaches the target ignition timing and boost. That's a good performer.

I was just messing around yunno, with the warm and fuzzy feeling part

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I was just messing around yunno, with the warm and fuzzy feeling part

I know

I have been checking this thread for days, and I told myself I'm not getting involved.

And I truly believed that I would do it this time.

[lucasborka]

Swedish Do88 intercooler. Includes airflow test compared to stock IC and wagner evo 2



https://www.do88.se/sv/artiklar/bmw-...tercooler.html

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by lucasborka

Swedish Do88 intercooler. Includes airflow test compared to stock IC and wagner evo 2



https://www.do88.se/sv/artiklar/bmw-...tercooler.html

Nice graphs, but it does not mean much, to be honest. In contrast, we need to see the data logs and the ignition timing + target boost of each intercooler with each stage to see where the Wagner would fall short and how the Do88 performs.

Im not saying one is better than the other, I don't have the data to make these claims, but I'm saying that we need the correct data to make such a claim.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by lucasborka

Swedish Do88 intercooler. Includes airflow test compared to stock IC and wagner evo 2



https://www.do88.se/sv/artiklar/bmw-...tercooler.html

Are they really claiming that the IC substantially decreases oil and coolant temps? That's a first.... and at least for the coolant side doesnt really make sense

[n55david]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Are they really claiming that the IC substantially decreases oil and coolant temps? That's a first.... and at least for the coolant side doesnt really make sense

Yeah. What's strange is I had a guy on ig telling me that and asking me about my oil tenps after the ic swap etc. I was so confused.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by n55david

Yeah. What's strange is I had a guy on ig telling me that and asking me about my oil tenps after the ic swap etc. I was so confused.

Yeah i mean the coolant temp is controlled electronically so it shouldnt deviate significantly unless you are pushing past the limits of the cooling system (which doesnt seem to be a problem even on track cars), so even if IAT differences did slightly affect how much heat the engine is putting into the coolant, the temp should be stable. And i know they arent claiming that the bigger IC provides more flow to the radiator (which again shouldnt make a difference unless the cooling system is at its limits)

[n55david]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Yeah i mean the coolant temp is controlled electronically so it shouldnt deviate significantly unless you are pushing past the limits of the cooling system (which doesnt seem to be a problem even on track cars), so even if IAT differences did slightly affect how much heat the engine is putting into the coolant, the temp should be stable. And i know they arent claiming that the bigger IC provides more flow to the radiator (which again shouldnt make a difference unless the cooling system is at its limits)

I was thinking the same thing. I've seen no evidence of this having an effect.

[lucasborka]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Are they really claiming that the IC substantially decreases oil and coolant temps? That's a first.... and at least for the coolant side doesnt really make sense

[QUOTE=thejeremyman9;29114387]

I think they included oil and water radiators they sell to. Don't know why😁

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by lucasborka

I think they included oil and water radiators they sell to. Don't know why😁

ohh reading fail on my part i guess. But I am still going to say that doesnt really make sense given the way oil and coolant temps are controlled. They would need to change the oil T-stat and flash cooling targets for example.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Are they really claiming that the IC substantially decreases oil and coolant temps? That's a first.... and at least for the coolant side doesnt really make sense

Yeah, it only takes one nonsensical statement like that to make me question anything else that a company claims.