[Danj94]

Hey,

Well I have had a pretty mental week at work and was really looking forward to a nice relaxed weekend... anyway

I sold a used Playstation 5 on Tuesday 7th November via eBay and opted via Packlink to send the PS5 via EVRI's next day delivery service.

I dropped the parcel off at an EVRI drop off point Wednesday evening and to my surprise and upon tasting freedom at 4pm today I checked my phone to find the buyer of the Playstation had actually received a lump of plastic wrapped in bubble wrap... not a PS5!

It's the first time something has ever been stolen from me and for this I do feel pretty lucky but what a terrible feeling it is. I am not desperate for the money £380 isn't a small sum that I'd care to lose however it isn't a significant amount and its certainly not going to affect my quality of life in the short term. This is more about principle.

The service I purchased was next day delivery, with proof of deliver. No additional cover meaning I am insured for up to £25 compensation for theft/loss of the package.

Well I will be taking EVRI to small claims court if need be, I have checked and for me to take them to that point it will cost me £50 which would be recovered if successful at court. Hopefully we don't need to get all the way to court but who knows.

Firstly I have written to the CEO of EVRI via email tonight explaining the situation, the losses I have incurred and the action which I expect (a full refund) without the need for further action to be taken. If I don't receive a prompt response then I will be issuing a letter of claim to the company and legal proceedings will begin!

I am going to keep this thread updated throughout win or lose and I thought it might also encourage others here to stand up for themselves and to not be intimidated by corporate companies posh lawyers blah blah blah. In this case the law is on my side as I have paid for a service which hasn't been fulfilled and I suspect criminality from EVRI employees.

Next steps I will be going to the drop off point to gather CCTV footage of the point of drop off to demonstrate that the parcel I left isnt the parcel that was delivered.

Stay tuned!

[boba-fett]

How do you know the buyer is not attempting to Scam you?? I would say that its more likely the buyer has done this? E-bay is a minefield with its distance selling buyer protection rights and this is a known fiddle.

The buyer has everything to gain by doing this and it will hard to prove, and there will probably be no repercussions.

E-Bay is getting run in to the ground with scams, chancers and people abusing the over protective buyer policies..

[Danj94]

Hey,

You're absolutely right it's exactly what I suspected when I first received the message from the buyer this evening explaining the situation.

I know the buyer isn't trying to scam me because I did pay for proof of postage 0.50p which required the delivery driver to get a signature and a photo of the parcel in the recipients open doorway and guess what... the parcel in the photo isn't the one which I posted...

I asked the recipient to show me a picture of the postage label on the parcel and sure enough it's exactly the same as the one I attached to the playstation but it does look to of been tampered with.

That's how I know someone at Evri has been up to no good.

[boba-fett]

Originally Posted by Danj94

Hey,

You're absolutely right it's exactly what I suspected when I first received the message from the buyer this evening explaining the situation.

I know the buyer isn't trying to scam me because I did pay for proof of postage 0.50p which required the delivery driver to get a signature and a photo of the parcel in the recipients open doorway and guess what... the parcel in the photo isn't the one which I posted...

I asked the recipient to show me a picture of the postage label on the parcel and sure enough it's exactly the same as the one I attached to the playstation but it does look to of been tampered with.

That's how I know someone at Evri has been up to no good.

Gotcha, was it wrapped so you would not know what was in there?

[Danj94]

Yes it was wrapped in brown parcel paper and tape. No one would be able to tell what it was without peeling the packaging.

[AyrshireColin]

Sh*t situation…but you never paid for insurance and after the event expect to be covered by insurance when it’s went wrong 👎.

Personally I think you were bonkers sending something that you’d sold for £380 without cover, PS5 or otherwise (which I’d have been insuring for damage purposes more than anything else).

Did you photograph to show what you packed and posted? Packed is key even if insured, otherwise you’re just a guy saying ‘honest I sent a PS5’.

The 15 minutes it took you to email the Evri CEO just feels like 15 minutes given up to make yourself feel better!

As I said sh*t situation, but I honestly don’t see how it ends up landing in your favour. Good luck.

[AyrshireColin]

Ps. As an avid eBay seller - doesn’t move its on eBay! £380 for a PS5 should be a red flag. They’re £399 new with a new release game! The rule with eBay is always to ask why someone is paying over the odds for a freely available item…it normally ends up being a scammer as the cost is irrelevant.

EBay puts the burden on the seller to be watertight, the buyer just has to raise a case and if you can’t provide evidence to counter eBay will side with the seller.

Great insight after the event I realise!

[Danj94]

Hi I understand you're concerns however "insurance " provided by evri for a service they provide is a scam in this situation as it does not account for criminal action being taken by evri employees.

In this case I believe I am still covered by consumer rights laws and I expect I will be successful.

It's exactly why I'm posting this thread here because i think there is a lot of miss information out there.

If I can prove what's been dropped off isn't what's delivered then it's beyond a reasonable doubt that some sort of criminal offence has been committed by an evri employee during that window.

Appreciate your comments but as I said in the original post this isn't really about the money.. more so principle.

[MY340i]

It's not just as simple as filing a claim on small courts. You'll actually need to build a solid case; use a few forums online for some inspiration. Lots of good material out there.

Depending on your breakdown cover; you might have some legal advice cover too; RAC provide this. They are very useful for consumer law.

moving forwards..... use a reliable and proper delivery company like UPS/ParcelForce for these kinds of items.

[Danj94]

Appreciate everyone's comments.

I checked ebay sold listing for PS5's and several used ones had sold in the last couple of weeks for the same money I was asking.

I am aware I need to build a case hence why I've started with a complaint and a request to resolve things without further action this will be follow by a letter of claim etc.

Stay with me guys I'm not looking for people here to tell me what to do, I already know I'm covered under consumer rights law. The ebay buyer hasn't done anything wrong and I've issued him a full refund.

Thanks for the input though I'm simply logging the events as I said at the start maybe I'll win maybe not who knows.

[AyrshireColin]

Originally Posted by Danj94

Hi I understand you're concerns however "insurance " provided by evri for a service they provide is a scam in this situation as it does not account for criminal action being taken by evri employees.

In this case I believe I am still covered by consumer rights laws and I expect I will be successful.

It's exactly why I'm posting this thread here because i think there is a lot of miss information out there.

If I can prove what's been dropped off isn't what's delivered then it's beyond a reasonable doubt that some sort of criminal offence has been committed by an evri employee during that window.

Appreciate your comments but as I said in the original post this isn't really about the money.. more so principle.

Believe me, I have no concerns over this.

You have nothing to back you up other than ‘yeah but I’m a good guy, trust me, and this is what happened - that Evri driver is a ‘criminal’’ - good luck with that one.

Just for awareness - Evri drivers are self employed, they are not employees.

You wanted to save a fiver or whatever it was going to cost you to insure and have been bitten in the ass big time. You have left yourself wide open to something going wrong here, any number of things!

[3-GT]

The only issue I see is there's also another 'middle man' in the mix - the drop off shop. This could complicate things as they could end up just blaming each other. If you do ask for CCTV ask for when it was picked up by Evri too.

Although, if it is the shop, I doubt the CCTV will be available.

[AyrshireColin]

Originally Posted by Danj94

Appreciate everyone's comments.

I checked ebay sold listing for PS5's and several used ones had sold in the last couple of weeks for the same money I was asking.

I am aware I need to build a case hence why I've started with a complaint and a request to resolve things without further action this will be follow by a letter of claim etc.

Stay with me guys I'm not looking for people here to tell me what to do, I already know I'm covered under consumer rights law. The ebay buyer hasn't done anything wrong and I've issued him a full refund.

Thanks for the input though I'm simply logging the events as I said at the start maybe I'll win maybe not who knows.

That’s your second mistake there. You shouldn’t have issued a refund off the bat, again you are running with the ‘good guy’ - ‘Evri b*stards’ here!

I genuinely hope it works out for you, can’t see it personally, but you have been and continue to be very naive here.

[Danj94]

Very doom and gloom on the forum perhaps I won't bother anymore until I have an outcome. Wasn't aware we had so many people trained in consumer rights and criminal law.

Thanks anyway

[Allworth]

Was there a way to figure out what's inside the package for people handling it without opening it beforehand? How good package was packed, i.e. could it have been ripped out in transit exposing product and its value? You say it was plastic and bubble wrap instead of a product, how heavy was the parcel initially?

[Danj94]

Originally Posted by AyrshireColin

Sh*t situation…but you never paid for insurance and after the event expect to be covered by insurance when it’s went wrong ��.

Personally I think you were bonkers sending something that you’d sold for £380 without cover, PS5 or otherwise (which I’d have been insuring for damage purposes more than anything else).

Did you photograph to show what you packed and posted? Packed is key even if insured, otherwise you’re just a guy saying ‘honest I sent a PS5’.

The 15 minutes it took you to email the Evri CEO just feels like 15 minutes given up to make yourself feel better!

As I said sh*t situation, but I honestly don’t see how it ends up landing in your favour. Good luck.

Originally Posted by AyrshireColin

Ps. As an avid eBay seller - doesn’t move its on eBay! £380 for a PS5 should be a red flag. They’re £399 new with a new release game! The rule with eBay is always to ask why someone is paying over the odds for a freely available item…it normally ends up being a scammer as the cost is irrelevant.

EBay puts the burden on the seller to be watertight, the buyer just has to raise a case and if you can’t provide evidence to counter eBay will side with the seller.

Great insight after the event I realise!

Originally Posted by AyrshireColin

Believe me, I have no concerns over this.

You have nothing to back you up other than ‘yeah but I’m a good guy, trust me, and this is what happened - that Evri driver is a ‘criminal’’ - good luck with that one.

Just for awareness - Evri drivers are self employed, they are not employees.

You wanted to save a fiver or whatever it was going to cost you to insure and have been bitten in the ass big time. You have left yourself wide open to something going wrong here, any number of things!

Originally Posted by AyrshireColin

That’s your second mistake there. You shouldn’t have issued a refund off the bat, again you are running with the ‘good guy’ - ‘Evri b*stards’ here!

I genuinely hope it works out for you, can’t see it personally, but you have been and continue to be very naive here.

Usually wouldn't do this but.. on this occasion I feel I have a duty to debunk this absolute nonsense which you're spreading on this forum. Please see details below for exactly why insurance in this case is both not applicable but also by law not enforceable as EVRI T's & C's.

The fact you think I am naive for refunding the eBay buyer for their purchase when they have not received the item which they purchased shows to me you have absolutely no understanding of consumer rights act 2015 but I shall continue to explain for the benefit of others who may find themselves in a similar position, who knows perhaps you might actually learn something too and could become less naive to the fact you actually have far more weight in the court of law under the consumer rights act then you think. This isn't about being a nice guy, this is about doing whats both morally right and legal. You're right I could wait for eBay to enforce a refund to the buyer but this doesn't help my case one bit and actually just further inconveniences the buyer who has no further part in this case.

So why isn't the - You didn't buy insurance for your package so you have no case line enforceable in a court of law in this case.

First, the delivery companies' insurance is unlawful because it is contrary to section 57 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which specifically prohibits the exclusion or limitation of any liability for the failure to take reasonable skill and care.

Second, the insurance contract itself is a secondary contract which is also designed to exclude or to limit liability and these kinds of secondary contracts are specifically prohibited by section 72 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Third, it cannot be correct that the service provider expects the customer to protect – (essentially them, the service provider) – from having to bear the cost of compensating for their own negligence or the criminality of their own employees. This is effectively requiring the customer to pay for the service provider' s breach of contract.

Fourth, the service provider is required to use reasonable care and skill – and the insurance requirement amounts to contracting out of their duty.

Fifth, The insurance requirement imposed by the courier industry is intended to remove your rights under the Consumer Rights Act that the service provided to you should be carried out with reasonable care and skill. The insurance requirement effectively grants you that right only if you pay an additional fee and this amounts to an attempt to restrict or exclude the courier's liability and is contrary to section 57 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Six, where an item is stolen, not only is it a criminal act but also it is an act of conversion – which is a tort. It is unfair to require the customer to be responsible for the torts of the service providers own employees.

Seven, the service provider is a large well resourced company and is the "better loss bearer".

all seven of those reasons are exactly why in this case the lack of insurance is NOT enforceable in a court of law. It may be used to intimidate customers to prevent them from pursuing recovery of costs which they are actually entitled to.

and to back up the information I have given above and to prove it works I am also going to provide a case study of a person who encountered a similar set of circumstances and has recently been successful in recovering all costs before attending court.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.u...efund-in-full/

Now I am not saying for a second that I will 100% win this case, I will be following the methodology shown in the link above, I am not trained in law or consumer rights but I have made an effort to educate myself on what my rights are as a consumer and to dismiss this as you didn't pay a fiver for insurance its your own fault your so naive is absolutely ridiculous.

I am sure you will have some smart answers to some of the points I've listed above but frankly I couldn't care less. I will continue to update this thread only with progress updates from my case against EVRI.

[danb1979]

Sorry to be reading this

I have bought & sold a lot on eBay; one thing I never do is use their own postage options and never, ever use the likes of Evri, Collect+ etc

I always use RM where I can. (with insurance/proof of postage etc) and then the likes of UPS/Parcelforce/DPD via interparcel.com

I've serious OCD when it comes to stuff like this; so I'll take pictures of whatever it is that I've sold from every angle and I'll also record myself packing the item up and sealing it/adding the labels etc..

This is then sent onto the buyer via eBay's messaging; so it's all covered and above board etc

I know that I could then strip the packaging open, keep the item and add something in there different (but I'm not like that etc)

It's shitter this has happened and hope you do get somewhere with it; but knowing how bad Evri are and how badly theyre thought of; I wouldn't hold my breath...

They're the Ryanair of couriers; as in they'll take all the £££ and give naff all back etc

[SR-25]

Very sorry to hear of the situation you find yourself in. I've bought and sold plenty on ebay too and never experienced such a problem. There's definitly some good advice in here so kudos for sharing your story and hope you get it sorted one way or another.

I'll certainly be more cautious selling on eBay. I, like Mr danb1979 also don't use the automated postage system and try deal with RM or DPD. Obviously anyone can perform a criminal activity, you just never know.

[Allworth]

As someone who works for DPD as C&D driver,
It is good to hear people are having positive experience with DPD.
I personally never had such a massive bad experience when sending items, but I suspect bad people can be in any company, including parcel shops. Maybe sometimes it worth using parcel lockers, spending sometime delivering dear items on your own, or asking to collect. And just to restore the sanity, an elder gentleman who does Evri delivery in my area is really trustworthy.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Allworth

As someone who works for DPD as C&D driver,
It is good to hear people are having positive experience with DPD.
I personally never had such a massive bad experience when sending items, but I suspect bad people can be in any company, including parcel shops. Maybe sometimes it worth using parcel lockers, spending sometime delivering dear items on your own, or asking to collect. And just to restore the sanity, an elder gentleman who does Evri delivery in my area is really trustworthy.

DPD. Best small parcel courier in the market, bar none.

[Somebloke]

I once bought a watch which was sent by UPS but was intercepted and swapped out. I knew something wasn't right as it wasn't delivered by the usual brown UPS van but by some random white van, and they just left it on my doorstep. I did an unboxing video which revealed that they swapped out the watch for mens' toiletries.

Long story short - the police and actionfraud were useless and couldn't care less. I had to do all the reporting to the carrier even though I wasn't party to the contract. The platform I bought off disputed my chargeback. I only got a refund when the supplier's insurers paid out for the loss. I will never buy off that platform again.

OP - hope you recover your loss one way or another.

[JustChris]

Evri cloud has a brown lining.

If I get a whiff something I want online ships via Evri I’m not buying it or upgrading postage.

Sorry to hear this OP and it’s a new one on me. 🤬🥵