[Ennoch]

Breaking this out of the other thread in case it's useful to anyone contemplating this in the future (size wise rather than summer vs winter!). In my head I wasn't totally sure whether this would work. I knew the Americans on here seem to fit a wide variety of oddball tyre sizes and like them but a lot seem to be rather gung ho in their attitudes to rubbing and speedo accuracy, two things I wasn't really wanting to compromise on. However, given the state of the roads I'm frequently on in winter, and the lack of much visibility of holes and craters both at the edge and right in the wheel tracks, I did want to get as much sidewall in there as I could.

Rims were either going to be 396M or preferably 415M turbine's. Unfortunately the latter were rare when I was looking, and a pair of 396M's came up at the right price and in pretty good nick. A local place does a reasonable refurb powder coat job in basic silver, black or white for £150 which I used man maths to justify given my mate's tyre machine is broken at the moment and I'd be paying at least £75 to get four tyres fitted anyway. So £75 to refurb four wheels seemed pretty reasonable!

I've previously stuck to stock 403M's with staggered Pirelli Sottozero 3's in RFT guise, but I'm not a fan of staggered as it makes it impossible to rotate tyres, and I seem to run through rears about 40% faster than fronts. That and the car always seems a little front limited in low grip situations. The Sottozero 3 RFT in the rear size was also coming in at about £250+ per tyre, which is mental. I've also done in two fronts in three winters with eggs thanks to cavernous potholes, hence wanting more sidewall. One was probably down to RFT fragility but the other would definitely have been a puncture and a long wait thanks to the retarded engineers at BMW not fitting a spare. But I've had that rant many times before...

Anyway, I know that 225/45 is the standard size in 18" but this isn't an appreciably greater sidewall than 225/40 is on the 19" wheels. 235/45 is a little bigger and does look stouter on standard 8" rims but isn't available in RFT, and that was a non negotiable, so I started looking at 245/45. It's the same size my dad's got on his Evoque, albeit in 20" rim so greater rollover angle, and it's not a perfect amount as he's still broken rims up north, but it's better than the stock F30 19" tyres! I had to go for the slightly older Continental TS850 P to get the run flat in 245 but I decided it was a sacrifice worth making; they were the equal of the Sottozero 3's I've run on both the Impreza and the BMW previously, and I found their performance to be more than sufficient - ground clearance is the issue on these cars more than anything. Ironically these ones are BMW * and Merc MOE tagged, despite being square. And RFT was of course a non-negotiable.









Now I know they won't be to everyone's tastes, but you don't often see these rims which I like, and the sidewall is definitely a little more confidence inspiring than the daft 19" rubber bands. Plus being square makes it easier to rotate to get more life. Even with the chunky tread there's no rubbing, and importantly the speedo is bang on accurate. If anything there's still 0.5mph of over-reading going on which gives a little lee-way. It's certainly not under-reading. That's measured on both Waze, RaceCrono and a Garmin Fenix - 60mph hovers between 59mph and 60mph. Hopefully this gives someone considering this the confidence to do the same themselves. I wouldn't say the ride was transformational but it does deal with broken tarmac and sunken manholes a lot better, so far.

Interestingly, on the 396M wheel front, there seems to be an almost identical wheel from the 5/6 series range called the 'style 330', identical in every way on the front face (apart from 'II' embossed in the front face), but with quite a different rear, with a 'C' shaped spoke, where the 396 has an 'E' shape which has an extra reinforcing bar, and a slightly different design around the hub face. The biggest difference is that the 330 has an ET of 30 whereas the 396 has an ET of 34.

I had a slight clusterfuck with the first set of wheels I ordered as only one turned up, which was annoying as they'd been fitted with mint 245/45 Dunlop Winter 3D RFT's, but it turns out that these were actually 330M's, not 396M's. So annoying as it was, it seems to have been a lucky escape as from reading various forum threads that the lower offset wheels from the 5 series can rub at full lock when also fitted with larger tyres.

Set fitted:



The 'odd' one:



Anyway, roll on the snow...

[danb1979]

They look really well Ennoch - don't look too wide/stout/thick at all...

TBH couldn't tell they're one size up on my 235/45s etc

I'm sure they'll do you superbly through winter

I'm hoping for some of the cold stuff when we're up that way in Jan and Feb next year

[TurboWeasel]

They look great. They do look a little chunky but in a good way imo. They are for traction and grip after all

Just waiting for a gap in the rain and then these are going on. Staggered with 225/45s all round. Alpin PA4 out back, and Sotto 3s up front. 400M is my preferred style all year round, so it took a while to find these. Next winter I might try the 245/45s!

[TurboWeasel]

P.S. probably a dumb question, but are winter tyre pressures the same as summer tyres?

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by TurboWeasel

P.S. probably a dumb question, but are winter tyre pressures the same as summer tyres?

I stick with them yup; I run 38 rears 34 fronts currently

[TurboWeasel]

Originally Posted by danb1979

I stick with them yup; I run 38 rears 34 fronts currently

Cheers buddy

[sl13]

same setup but with Goodyear All Seasons. She's clean on the inside...

[Ennoch]

Originally Posted by danb1979

They look really well Ennoch - don't look too wide/stout/thick at all...

TBH couldn't tell they're one size up on my 235/45s etc

I'm sure they'll do you superbly through winter

I'm hoping for some of the cold stuff when we're up that way in Jan and Feb next year

Cheers. Yeah, me too! Got some new touring skis I want to try out, and preferably in conditions that aren't going to take chunks out of them after the first day. I missed the first days of winter climbing last weekend and now it's warm again but hopefully the cold will return so we can get some routes in before Christmas. Are you lifting rocks again when you're up?

Originally Posted by TurboWeasel

They look great. They do look a little chunky but in a good way imo. They are for traction and grip after all

Clearance between the front of the wheel arch and the tyre is definitely thinner than it is normally, but not massively so, it's not like it's got 4x4 clearance to start with. Driving them today over the rough backroad to go out riding they were a massive, massive improvement over the 19" setup when the edges got properly broken. While I don't think I could live with the lack of steering precision over the summer (even taking into account the winter rubber), it has made me wonder about 245/40/19 all round on either 8" or 8.5" 403M's for the summer setup. With the square setup the front end finally hooks naturally on greasy roads without needing to do anything special to get it turned in, and it rotates naturally without pushing or using hard throttle which of course isn't always appropriate in snow/ice etc. I do think that if you're really pushing hard and using full throttle coming out of corners the slightly wider rear tyres would beat the square setup given the not-50/50 AWD bias, but for winter they seem spot on. It strikes me that 235 or even 245 up front with 255 out back might be a better balance to help quell understeer and reduce the need to use weight transfer so dramatically, but obviously this wouldn't work with the AWD system. I'm certainly happy with them, even if them temp has gone back up to 11 degrees today!

Originally Posted by TurboWeasel

P.S. probably a dumb question, but are winter tyre pressures the same as summer tyres?

Yeah, I generally use the same pressures as summer with the expectation that they'll feel a little squidgier if you're coming from UHP summers. If you're using 'standard' summer tyres like Cinturato etc then there'll be little difference from the sidewall but still the additional movement of the tread blocks (which are what give you the grip in bad conditions).

I do like the 400M wheels, I just fancied something different, and after being parked next to another today with them I was glad I went for the 396M's. It's all personal preference though! One thing I like about the 396's particularly is how easy they are to clean compared to multi spoke designs, like the 403M's!

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by Ennoch

Cheers. Yeah, me too! Got some new touring skis I want to try out, and preferably in conditions that aren't going to take chunks out of them after the first day. I missed the first days of winter climbing last weekend and now it's warm again but hopefully the cold will return so we can get some routes in before Christmas. Are you lifting rocks again when you're up?



Clearance between the front of the wheel arch and the tyre is definitely thinner than it is normally, but not massively so, it's not like it's got 4x4 clearance to start with. Driving them today over the rough backroad to go out riding they were a massive, massive improvement over the 19" setup when the edges got properly broken. While I don't think I could live with the lack of steering precision over the summer (even taking into account the winter rubber), it has made me wonder about 245/40/19 all round on either 8" or 8.5" 403M's for the summer setup. With the square setup the front end finally hooks naturally on greasy roads without needing to do anything special to get it turned in, and it rotates naturally without pushing or using hard throttle which of course isn't always appropriate in snow/ice etc. I do think that if you're really pushing hard and using full throttle coming out of corners the slightly wider rear tyres would beat the square setup given the not-50/50 AWD bias, but for winter they seem spot on. It strikes me that 235 or even 245 up front with 255 out back might be a better balance to help quell understeer and reduce the need to use weight transfer so dramatically, but obviously this wouldn't work with the AWD system. I'm certainly happy with them, even if them temp has gone back up to 11 degrees today!



Yeah, I generally use the same pressures as summer with the expectation that they'll feel a little squidgier if you're coming from UHP summers. If you're using 'standard' summer tyres like Cinturato etc then there'll be little difference from the sidewall but still the additional movement of the tread blocks (which are what give you the grip in bad conditions).

I do like the 400M wheels, I just fancied something different, and after being parked next to another today with them I was glad I went for the 396M's. It's all personal preference though! One thing I like about the 396's particularly is how easy they are to clean compared to multi spoke designs, like the 403M's!

Unfortunately no. Retired from that now... It was part of the cause that made my body decide it wanted to try and kill me for the last 2 years The constant heavy lifting around injuries etc. Not done me any good...

We thought things were sorted after 2 ops this year, but one of the issues has now come back to haunt me, so waiting to see if I'll be referred under the NHS and if not, I'll have to go private again as its starting to debilitate me already

So will be up there for a good break, plenty of good food and whisky and a good walk or 3, if I'm capable

[sensible]

I have been running 225/45 18 Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 winter tyres all round on a set of 400M wheels, but the 225's are on the limit being on 8.5J rear wheels. The rears need replacing so I have bought two 235/45 18. I figured they would fit the rear wheels better, but will now be staggered with 225's front and 235's rear.

[TurboWeasel]

Originally Posted by Ennoch

Yeah, I generally use the same pressures as summer with the expectation that they'll feel a little squidgier if you're coming from UHP summers.

Thanks. Standard summer pressures feel spot on.

Yeah the brake pedal is pretty mushy now with the Sotto 3s up front. I don't mind the squidgy steering as it's expected with winter tyres, but the soggy pedal and reduced stopping distances (in the dry) is taking some getting used to!

[moppity]

I quite like that slightly bulbous look Ennoch ! It carries a certain purpose

Bet it rides comfy as f' too

[Ennoch]

Originally Posted by moppity

I quite like that slightly bulbous look Ennoch ! It carries a certain purpose

Bet it rides comfy as f' too

I wouldn't necessarily describe it as comfy as F as it doesn't dramatically transform the ride in the sense of small bobbly stuff as I think that's predominantly down to the suspension tuning not being great for British roads. However, and it's a big however, on the proper broken tarmac and potholes it's transformed it. I haven't winced once since fitting them whereas before it was multiple times every single drive. They're not actually bulbous but perfectly vertical sidewalls rather than the stretched, but the effect does make you think they stick out because you're so used to seeing stretched tyres on BMWs. Lots of rim protection, and the arches are filled nicely.

I may play about with geo to see if I can dial out a little of the extra rotation from the square tyres. If I can get it handling as I'd like then going 245/40/19 might be a nice halfway house between handling and ride. They're exactly the same diameter as 245/45/18 and the speedo is perfectly accurate with them which was my biggest concern.