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      09-05-2020, 10:07 AM   #23
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I agree with those who think run-flats have improved significantly over the years. I've had several BMW's where I couldn't get rid of the run-flats fast enough (E92 335i, E91 335d and E87 123d) but my F31 335d was much better (albeit I did still switch to conventional Goodyear AS2's when the original tyres needed replacing).

My G21 was supplied on Pirelli P-Zero run-flats and, while it's still relatively early days, thus far they seem absolutely fine; they dealt with lots of standing water on the motorway very well earlier in the week, they're much quieter than the Bridgestone run-flats I had on my F31 and the ride quality is also better than my F31 despite slightly larger wheels. I suspect they're still not as good as the best of the conventional tyres but they're certainly not at a level where I think they need binning and my strategy will be the same as with the F31 - stick with the original tyres until they need replacing and evaluate what alternatives are available when a change becomes necessary.
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      09-05-2020, 10:36 AM   #24
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I've recently switched from Bridgestone Potenza S001 RFT's to Michelin PS4 non-RFT's and while I wouldn't say the difference is night and day, it's close. The ride comfort is so much better that Mrs no longer complains of backache after a long journey. There is still an element of tramlining at times, but I guess that's par for the course in a car with staggered wheels, particularly on the shocking roads here in Shropshire.

One thing I would say is that the Michelins don't feel quite as sharp as the Bridgestones on initial turn-in - they feel geared more towards comfort than sportiness. However the grip from the PS4 is incredible, I've only broken traction once, and have a LOT more confidence in the car in high speed corners. I'm also not overly bothered by not having RFT's, I do less mileage than I used to. If I was still driving all over the country regularly then I might be more inclined to go for the RFT at the expense of some ride comfort.
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      09-05-2020, 11:33 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 340313 View Post
I've recently switched from Bridgestone Potenza S001 RFT's to Michelin PS4 non-RFT's and while I wouldn't say the difference is night and day, it's close. The ride comfort is so much better that Mrs no longer complains of backache after a long journey. There is still an element of tramlining at times, but I guess that's par for the course in a car with staggered wheels, particularly on the shocking roads here in Shropshire.

One thing I would say is that the Michelins don't feel quite as sharp as the Bridgestones on initial turn-in - they feel geared more towards comfort than sportiness. However the grip from the PS4 is incredible, I've only broken traction once, and have a LOT more confidence in the car in high speed corners. I'm also not overly bothered by not having RFT's, I do less mileage than I used to. If I was still driving all over the country regularly then I might be more inclined to go for the RFT at the expense of some ride comfort.
This feedback is extremely valuable for me, as I am currently on Bridgestone Potenza S001 (from factory) and considering PS4. I reckon you are also on 19"? What suspension do you have? Would you say the PS4 are less noisy and less "nervous"? Is the increase of comfort really obvious?

Bottom line - if you have perfectly good Potenza S001 RFTs as I do, which can be driven a few more years (since I also don't drive much with the BMW, it is not a daily ride), is it worth spending the money to go over to PS4?
I am looking for a bit more comfort (mainly noise!) but also better traction during acceleration and sporty driving, combined with I assume reduced weight.

Noting that in the States, the so called Track Handling Package you can order the car to come with includes non-RFT PS4 tires, instead of the standard RFTs BMWs come with. There must be a reason......
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      09-05-2020, 11:49 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 340313 View Post
I've recently switched from Bridgestone Potenza S001 RFT's to Michelin PS4 non-RFT's and while I wouldn't say the difference is night and day, it's close. The ride comfort is so much better that Mrs no longer complains of backache after a long journey. There is still an element of tramlining at times, but I guess that's par for the course in a car with staggered wheels, particularly on the shocking roads here in Shropshire.

One thing I would say is that the Michelins don't feel quite as sharp as the Bridgestones on initial turn-in - they feel geared more towards comfort than sportiness. However the grip from the PS4 is incredible, I've only broken traction once, and have a LOT more confidence in the car in high speed corners. I'm also not overly bothered by not having RFT's, I do less mileage than I used to. If I was still driving all over the country regularly then I might be more inclined to go for the RFT at the expense of some ride comfort.
This feedback is extremely valuable for me, as I am currently on Bridgestone Potenza S001 (from factory) and considering PS4. I reckon you are also on 19"? What suspension do you have? Would you say the PS4 are less noisy and less "nervous"? Is the increase of comfort really obvious?

Bottom line - if you have perfectly good Potenza S001 RFTs as I do, which can be driven a few more years (since I also don't drive much with the BMW, it is not a daily ride), is it worth spending the money to go over to PS4?
I am looking for a bit more comfort (mainly noise!) but also better traction during acceleration and sporty driving, combined with I assume reduced weight.

Noting that in the States, the so called Track Handling Package you can order the car to come with includes non-RFT PS4 tires, instead of the standard RFTs BMWs come with. There must be a reason......
The M2/3/4/5 etc also come with non-runflats.



The main issue I found with the runflats on my F31 (which were 19" Goodyear Eagle F1 Asyms) was that they crashed over the smallest bumps, and any big cracks or holes on the roads on a corner would cause the car to skip or jerk sideways across them, probably only a few inches but sometimes on a 2-lane roundabout got very uncomfortable that I'd sideswipe the vehicle next to me, which the non-runflats do not do at all even though the same roads are now even worse.


As an example, runflats on stock x-drive (ie non-M Sport) suspension felt a slightly worse ride over smaller bumps than 35mm lowering springs with runflats.
Over potholes the runflats felt horrific, always scared you'd damaged the tyre, wheel or car every time, even at low speeds.
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      09-05-2020, 12:18 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
This feedback is extremely valuable for me, as I am currently on Bridgestone Potenza S001 (from factory) and considering PS4. I reckon you are also on 19"? What suspension do you have? Would you say the PS4 are less noisy and less "nervous"? Is the increase of comfort really obvious?

Bottom line - if you have perfectly good Potenza S001 RFTs as I do, which can be driven a few more years (since I also don't drive much with the BMW, it is not a daily ride), is it worth spending the money to go over to PS4?
I am looking for a bit more comfort (mainly noise!) but also better traction during acceleration and sporty driving, combined with I assume reduced weight.

Noting that in the States, the so called Track Handling Package you can order the car to come with includes non-RFT PS4 tires, instead of the standard RFTs BMWs come with. There must be a reason......
Sorry, neglected to mention that I'm on 18" 400M's (225/45/18 front and 255/40/18 rear) with standard M-Sport suspension. It absolutely feels less nervous on the Michelins, and the decrease in noise and increase in comfort are very obvious.

In hindshight I wish I'd swapped them out on the day the car was delivered. By the time I realised how much better the car could feel, I stuck with the S001's until around 3mm (the harshness, noise and twitchiness got markedly worse around this point).

Now I don't have any experience of other RFT's, and the general consensus seem to be that Bridgestones are particularly bad, but if comfort and grip levels are your priority then I don't think you'll find much better than the non-RFT PS4.
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      09-07-2020, 03:43 AM   #28
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I've ended up going for replacement Goodyear Eagle F1 RFTs in the end
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      09-07-2020, 03:59 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by t5pilot View Post
Out of interest, what car are these for? Only asking as I'm wondering why you'd spend more money on the 4S rather than the 4.... On anything other than a sports car

Real world on a 'normal' car, you won't feel any difference between the two.
Well they were going to go on my 640d, i wanted something with better grip in the rain im always loosing traction. however when I ordered the tyres they were not bmw marked and as such the fitting centre refused to fit them. i then only had the option to have the set ordered online refunded, come into the store and re order the same tyres again so that they could refund the fitting charge (as it they would be ordered instore they can refund this fitting charge instore) oh yeah i would have to wait for the new set of tyres to be delivered which literally sounded bonkers to me and then take them away to be fitted elsewhere! So i just thought forget it im buying part worns!
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      12-30-2020, 07:40 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Simon89 View Post
I've ended up going for replacement Goodyear Eagle F1 RFTs in the end
5 months on how are they?
Do you feel you made a good choice?
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      02-09-2021, 03:33 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Medslow View Post
I went from 19" runflats to 18" non-runflats.... (Pirelli P Zero)
It's dreamy!

Quieter, softer, cheaper, repairable.
I fully agree though for vulnerable drivers it sure is a nice safety net to have.
X2 ... can’t believe the difference it’s like driving a different car even though they are winter tyres .
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      02-10-2021, 10:27 AM   #32
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^^ Yep...

I also recently purchased a 1 series with Goodyear runflats, 18" ... I forgot how bad they are...
Noisy, hard and also very slippery when it's cold and damp out.. They are coming off as soon as possible.
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      02-10-2021, 01:34 PM   #33
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Here's my (poor) experience with RFs:

I’ve had my 330D xDrive for a few years now. Took it in for a recall to my local dealer a few months later and they said there was an issue with one tyre which would need replacing.

Fine - I got them to put a new Bridgestone RF on.

Forward wind a year later and back for a service and lo and behold, this time the other three tyres also have sidewall bulges and will all need replacing.

I get them to do so (all Bridgestone OEM) but that’s all 4 tyres over 2 years now .

So this year going for my brake service and guess what - yep - 2 more bloody tyres with sidewall bulges meaning they needed replacement .

Now my driving has remained the same, I'm a careful driver, I’m not hitting potholes and this has never happened with any previous car.

I’m thinking some factors could be:
Poor state of the roads - Maybe not potholes but generally full of ruts and imperfections and certainly not as smooth as those elsewhere in Europe
Heavy (comparatively) saloon (1610kg) with wide tyres that are low profile (19” alloys) - so I presume equivalent cars would be similar - in fact I had a chat to some guys at work at the time and a few have had similar issues - one had a 440D, another a mini and a third a Merc C43.
...on stif suspension maybe?

Anyway, whatever the combination of problems is, I wasn't prepared to keep spending circa £400/yr on tyres (I was close to averaging 2/yr with RF's) especially galling when there was still 6mm tread on all four but 2 were still buggered

I decided rather than spend that on 2 replacement RF's to go for all 4 non-RF (aka normal) for £570 fitted - I keep a can of tyreweld in the boot if I do need it - tyre places normally find excuses NOT to repair tyres anyway and try to sell you a new one so I’m not bothered by the “but you’ll definitely need a new tyre if you use the gunk” excuse.
As a bonus, ride quality has improved massively so I'm happy I've done it (they're Yokohoma Advan Fleva's btw).
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      02-11-2021, 02:53 AM   #34
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Ironically the only time (rapidly searches for a wooden object....) I've had a puncture that has rendered the car undrivable was on my current 640i, when the runflat decided to split around the sidewall for no apparent reason whilst cruising round the M25. I hadn't hit anything on the day or any time I could remember before. It literally tore about 25% of the way round the circumference.

I got the dreaded *bong* "check tyre pressures", and wasn't overly concerned as I've had that many false alarms because 1 tyre is 0.5 bar lower than the others, so just checked the pressures on the iDrive whilst still going.

That was when I worried because the pressure was literally dropping like a stone. Pulled off the motorway as soon as I could and whipped the air compressor out of the boot, but whatever air was going in was coming straight out. After a quick google and a few phone calls, I limped the car to the nearest tyre place and had to have 2 new runflats fitted on the front (as the rears were still fairly new - all tyres had only got about 6-7k miles on them). Got bent over to the tune of just under £500 for the 2 new Shitstone RFTs and was royally fucked off.

Over my entire driving career (I'm now 44) that was the only time I've had a puncture that has rendered the car almost immobile. Everything else has been a slow puncture. My wife's X5 we put normal tyres on (as the price of RFT's on the rears are simply comical) even had screw go into the sidewall head first, not pointy end, and that's was still just a slow puncture and she got home just fine - where I plugged it with a DIY repair kit and it lasted a week before the tyre place could get the replacement size in stock....to be fiar it hadn't dropped nay pressure at all, so would've lasted a lot longer!

As most punctures are something getting stuck in the tyre, resulting in a slow puncture, I'd rather just have a compressor in the boot (and if you're really worried, some tyre goo) - Ok, I might have to stop a few times to pump reinflate the tyre a bit to get me home, but at least when I do I can get the tyre repaired and any tyre place of my choosing. Worst case scenario, you could even get a mobile tyre guy to repair it at the roadside.

You get a nail anywhere in a RFT and good luck getting anyone to repair it (thankfully after a number of cars with RFTs, and number of punctures and a huge reluctance to replace them in pairs each time, I now do know one place...but they're very few and far between).

Fully agree the Goodyear runflats are way, way better than the early e9x Bridgestone RE050 I think they were, which is what my 640i had as well. The Bridgestones are categorically the worst tyres I've ever had on any car.

Once the runflats have expired on any of my cars, they've been replaced with normal ones, and the ride, handling and road noise (for normal driving) have been vastly improved. Another bonus is when the tyres do need repairing or replacing, I'm not stood there having kittens wondering if my wheel will get fucked up by the tyre guys wrestling the damn RFT on and off, as they have hardly any give and are a challenge to get on and off a rim.
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      02-23-2021, 02:26 PM   #35
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I’ve been trying to decide between Rft v non, as I need a new set for the spring. 18” alloys, 225/45 front and 255/40 rears.

mps4 are well reviewed, and after doing some searches have found that Kwik-fit are doing a 15% off code (mcc) until 28/2
This meant that a non Rft set would be £560 or a Rft set (with the bmw star) work out at £620
Plus there’s a set of Michelin wireless ear buds to claim back

After a fair bit of weighing up the pros and cons I’ve gone for the run flats.

Getting them fitted on Thursday. Now just need to give the car a good clean down so I’m not too embarrassed when the fitter arrives.

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      02-23-2021, 04:10 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scubado View Post
I’ve been trying to decide between Rft v non, as I need a new set for the spring. 18” alloys, 225/45 front and 255/40 rears.

mps4 are well reviewed, and after doing some searches have found that Kwik-fit are doing a 15% off code (mcc) until 28/2
This meant that a non Rft set would be £560 or a Rft set (with the bmw star) work out at £620
Plus there’s a set of Michelin wireless ear buds to claim back

After a fair bit of weighing up the pros and cons I’ve gone for the run flats.

Getting them fitted on Thursday. Now just need to give the car a good clean down so I’m not too embarrassed when the fitter arrives.

What runflats are they? The Bridgestone ones tend to be reviewed fairly poorly and in terms of RFT, I think the general consensus is Goodyear Eagle are the best.

Armaan
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      02-23-2021, 04:24 PM   #37
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Quick question on that actually-my car has the Pirelli Pzero on the fronts and Bridgestones on the rears (both RFT). Think my ride would improve by putting Pirelli's on the rears vs. Changing all tires out? I keep popping single tires on potholes (bubbles).
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      02-23-2021, 05:02 PM   #38
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Everyone needs to make their own choice based on where they live, budget, who is driving etc. I have both on my cars. For my cars I prefer non run flats because I enjoy the subtle driving feel of non run-flats. But for my girlfriend or daughter cars, run-flats have advantages that can not be denied. Knowing they are more likely to make it back without stopping on the side of the road makes it worth the expense. Lastly while run-flats are stiff they have gotten a bit better these last few years. Just not on real large rim sizes.

Last edited by Machinebuilder; 02-23-2021 at 05:22 PM..
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      02-23-2021, 11:41 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaan View Post
What runflats are they? The Bridgestone ones tend to be reviewed fairly poorly and in terms of RFT, I think the general consensus is Goodyear Eagle are the best.

Armaan
I’m getting the Michelin pilot sport 4’s fitted, Kwik fit sell the run flat version with the bmw approved star
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      02-24-2021, 01:49 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staticcornflake View Post
Quick question on that actually-my car has the Pirelli Pzero on the fronts and Bridgestones on the rears (both RFT). Think my ride would improve by putting Pirelli's on the rears vs. Changing all tires out? I keep popping single tires on potholes (bubbles).
In my owners manual it specifies:

‘To maintain good handling always fit tyres of the same make and tread pattern to all wheels’

BMW also recommend replacing tyres that are 6 years or older.

I’ve got a mixed set on mine, Bridgestone’s on the back and Falklen’s on the front. (Mine was bought second hand)

As mine’s a XDrive I’m trying to avoid the dreaded ‘drive train error’ by replacing them to the same type and make on all corners
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      02-24-2021, 02:55 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Scubado View Post
I’ve been trying to decide between Rft v non, as I need a new set for the spring. 18” alloys, 225/45 front and 255/40 rears.

mps4 are well reviewed, and after doing some searches have found that Kwik-fit are doing a 15% off code (mcc) until 28/2
This meant that a non Rft set would be £560 or a Rft set (with the bmw star) work out at £620
Plus there’s a set of Michelin wireless ear buds to claim back

After a fair bit of weighing up the pros and cons I’ve gone for the run flats.

Getting them fitted on Thursday. Now just need to give the car a good clean down so I’m not too embarrassed when the fitter arrives.

Could you let us know how they compare with your existing tyres once fitted? I’m inthe same situation and interested in the Ps4 rfts, not found any reviews yet firtge rft version.
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      02-24-2021, 03:09 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Scubado View Post
I’m getting the Michelin pilot sport 4’s fitted, Kwik fit sell the run flat version with the bmw approved star
Let us know how you get on with the Kwik Fit mobile fitter (out of interest), as well as the Michelin RFT's (interested to know if these are any good).

Thanks
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      02-24-2021, 03:10 AM   #43
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My previous car(only recently departed) had 19" Ps4s on, by far the best tyre I have ever had. Ps4 wasn't available in 437m sizes, I may have gone for those if they were.

Current G30 has 20" Goodyear rft's, and I'm not a fan, though I do get that the 19" are more liveable, and overall much better than Bridgestone run flats of any size.

Main issue is ride quality. My F31 was lowered, stiffer and Polybushed, but still took the edge off unavoidable deep ruts and holes much better than the better damped higher suspension travel G30. The RFTs bang over sharp edged potholes that the PS4S didn't despite a noticeably more comfortable suspension setup on the G30. I am constantly worried about buckling the wheels and bubbles in the tyres.

Overall grip, while good, isn't a patch on the Michelins. I had more confidence in the wet and dry in the RWD F31 than on this xdrive G30, even when accelerating out of a side road onto a main road. The RFTs will hit an imperfection whilst turning and skip to one side, which if you are already using a large proportion of the grip will result in a skip then slide effect that never happened with the Michelins.

I know what I'll be buying when mine are up, possibly before.

Last 5 years and 150-200,000 miles have resulted in two slow punctures, both driveable, compressor in the boot, both repaired. BMW assist for any bigger tyre issues, which so far, I have never had in 15 years of driving, last 5 years as a high mileage driver. If I'm going to have a complete tyre failure, it will be on these current tyres as they are completely unable to deal with some of our roads.
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      02-24-2021, 09:16 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PX3 View Post
Let us know how you get on with the Kwik Fit mobile fitter (out of interest), as well as the Michelin RFT's (interested to know if these are any good).

Thanks
Will do. As with anything like this I always make sure the kettle is boiled and a choice of beverage is available. Normally find that a little kindness and courtesy goes a long way.

I’ll definitely report back on the tyres 👍
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