[harkes]

Anyone running ECUTEK? This is looking sick!

[ZM2]

Great tuning platform, but it locks you into only using custom tunes vs the latest gen OTS maps which have shown to be as good/better than most custom tuners out there (unless you have some very special tuning need).

Add the Ecutek software and cost for four custom tunes, and you're way higher in price than say BM3, which is releasing map switching, flex fuel support, and new Stg 2+ OTS maps soon. BM3 wifi network & direct cable connection to phone just launched, as well.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Great tuning platform, but it locks you into only using custom tunes vs the latest gen OTS maps which have shown to be as good/better than most custom tuners out there (unless you have some very special tuning need).

Add the Ecutek software and cost for four custom tunes, and you're way higher in price than say BM3, which is releasing map switching, flex fuel support, and new Stg 2+ OTS maps soon. BM3 wifi network & direct cable connection to phone just launched, as well.

It definitely look like the more serious offer of the solutions out there and probably more for the self-tuner than anything else.

[xnick101]

Not many people seem to run ecutek on this platform. Ecutek is super popular on the G37/370z/GTR platform. It basically turns those car's stock ecu's into a standalone. You can do cool stuff like boost by gear, boost safety, afr safety, traction control settings, etc. A lot of really cool features. A90 Supra guys seem to be starting to use ecutek now. The only problem is as mentioned there are no OTS tunes, and the license and tuning suite is really expensive.

[MTWO]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Great tuning platform, but it locks you into only using custom tunes vs the latest gen OTS maps which have shown to be as good/better than most custom tuners out there (unless you have some very special tuning need).

Add the Ecutek software and cost for four custom tunes, and you're way higher in price than say BM3, which is releasing map switching, flex fuel support, and new Stg 2+ OTS maps soon. BM3 wifi network & direct cable connection to phone just launched, as well.

+100

You also can’t flash with any phone with ecutek. You have to flash with a windows laptop. They got logging on phones but its so slow compared to BM3. My friend on his A90 Supra went from BM3 to try Ecutek and was majorly disappointed as the tuner made a far worse tune than even the OTS map from BM3. He switched back after. BM3 is around the corner with all the fancy features and all the other stuff you get with it plus not being locked in to some custom tuner.

[bqik]

Originally Posted by harkes

Anyone running ECUTEK? This is looking sick!

MHD will also give the option of MultiMap switching in the future.

I want that.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by MTWO

+100

You also can’t flash with any phone with ecutek. You have to flash with a windows laptop. They got logging on phones but its so slow compared to BM3. My friend on his A90 Supra went from BM3 to try Ecutek and was majorly disappointed as the tuner made a far worse tune than even the OTS map from BM3. He switched back after. BM3 is around the corner with all the fancy features and all the other stuff you get with it plus not being locked in to some custom tuner.

Like with any other tuning platform, it's all up to the tuner, not the platform.

BM3, MHD offers OTS's, which are developed by one or two tuners.


ECUTek is strictly a tuning platform. If you pick an ECUTek kit from someone who has no idea what they are doing yes, the results will be less than desirble.

The logging speed is not true. ECUTek can log at 15Hz over bluetooth or faster with more channels directly over CANBus.

I can't speak on timelines as I simply don't know, but the windows laptop downside is something they aim to mitigate.

Originally Posted by harkes

It definitely look like the more serious offer of the solutions out there and probably more for the self-tuner than anything else.

Actually, ECUTek is very cost prohibitive for self-tuners and they actually require a "vetting" process before they allow you to remote tune.

[MTWO]

My buddy who tried it was getting 8 at best as he added stuff to log for his tuner. Don’t get me wrong its great to have all this software and options as some cars would kill to have anything even remotely close to all we have access to and play with. But with BM3 coming up with all the crazy new stuff and MHD even I just don’t see the real value or advantage over these others.

[Logicoeur]

Doesn't hurt to add another competitor to the market. ECUTEK will just be playing a severe game of catch up behind Bm3 and MHD. They've had a significant headstart.

Feature parity and ease of use will need to be ECUTEKs priority for some time, but if what I'm reading is true about there being no OTS tunes alongside a strong dependency on competent tuners for their platform, it is going to be a wildly steep journey for them. That's just a lot to overcome.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Doesn't hurt to add another competitor to the market. ECUTEK will just be playing a severe game of catch up behind Bm3 and MHD. They've had a significant headstart.

Feature parity and ease of use will need to be ECUTEKs priority for some time, but if what I'm reading is true about there being no OTS tunes alongside a strong dependency on competent tuners for their platform, it is going to be a wildly steep journey for them. That's just a lot to overcome.

ECUTek has been around for more than a year now, and they've been in development for quite a long time.

ECUTek doesn't mind that there are no OTS's, and quite a few reputable tuners do offer "OTS" stage maps for general cars, but that really defeats the purpose.

The whole point of ECUTek is to have your tuner tune your car to the exact way you use it.

Map 4 as a kill map, or valet map, or track map as an example. Custom mapping strategies for boost limits, torque limits, lambda targets, ignition timings, you name it. All without needing to flash a new map.

Then don't get me started on FlexFuel CAN integration that's already done and plenty of cars running it.

You don't hear a lot of people talking about ECUTek that are running ecutek because they know it works and all they care about is driving their car instead of posting on forums.

[MTWO]

It doesn’t compute for me that’s all since as I’ve said you get way more features for less from others especially when BM3 comes out with Flex and whatever else. Let’s just drop it I guess as we don’t see eye to eye on it right now. I respect your opinion and hope you do mine.

[FloorThe4]

Originally Posted by cookiesowns

ECUTek has been around for more than a year now, and they've been in development for quite a long time.

ECUTek doesn't mind that there are no OTS's, and quite a few reputable tuners do offer "OTS" stage maps for general cars, but that really defeats the purpose.

The whole point of ECUTek is to have your tuner tune your car to the exact way you use it.

Map 4 as a kill map, or valet map, or track map as an example. Custom mapping strategies for boost limits, torque limits, lambda targets, ignition timings, you name it. All without needing to flash a new map.

Then don't get me started on FlexFuel CAN integration that's already done and plenty of cars running it.

You don't hear a lot of people talking about ECUTek that are running ecutek because they know it works and all they care about is driving their car instead of posting on forums.

Hit the nail on the head. I have bm3 and am going to do ecutek and flex fuel integration. Ecutek has also been around a very long time but most people dont know they have primarily been in europe and in the GTR scene

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by cookiesowns

ECUTek has been around for more than a year now, and they've been in development for quite a long time.

ECUTek doesn't mind that there are no OTS's, and quite a few reputable tuners do offer "OTS" stage maps for general cars, but that really defeats the purpose.

The whole point of ECUTek is to have your tuner tune your car to the exact way you use it.

Map 4 as a kill map, or valet map, or track map as an example. Custom mapping strategies for boost limits, torque limits, lambda targets, ignition timings, you name it. All without needing to flash a new map.

Then don't get me started on FlexFuel CAN integration that's already done and plenty of cars running it.

You don't hear a lot of people talking about ECUTek that are running ecutek because they know it works and all they care about is driving their car instead of posting on forums.

Isn't all of this available with BM3 and MHD already? Not only do they have OTS tunes but people can tune your car remotely?

[-Eidos]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Great tuning platform, but it locks you into only using custom tunes vs the latest gen OTS maps which have shown to be as good/better than most custom tuners out there (unless you have some very special tuning need).

Add the Ecutek software and cost for four custom tunes, and you're way higher in price than say BM3, which is releasing map switching, flex fuel support, and new Stg 2+ OTS maps soon. BM3 wifi network & direct cable connection to phone just launched, as well.

Agreed to some extent. The only thing BM3 and MHD has over Ecutek are the OTS maps and the ease of use (Bang for the buck). What's planned on the product road-map, to me, are only words. I'm sure Ecutek has feature roll-outs as well.

To me, I think it all depends on how you define what is "good/better".

For me, I'd pay an extra $500-$1000 in a heartbeat to know that my car is running great on all engine parameters. I'd rather go with an experienced tuner working on a proper tuning platform, which has properly defined table definitions, working on my car vs. a platform that requires tuners to make assumptions on what the DME does to create a one size fits all approach.

The OTS maps are great for the general masses, don't get me wrong. They're especially great if your car was the one going through the R&D for the OTS tune. They're also great at squeezing out every ounce of your components for cheap. But you have no visibility into how close you are to the limits on your specific components. You never hear about the random mid-term to long-term issues directly related to a tune because it's easier to deny plausibility on the tune and blame the components for getting old, etc. How many revisions of an OTS map do you ever see for a one-size-fits all map after release, two maybe three at most? How many test cars does the tuner use to get a significant sample size? Is that sufficient? You have to realize that the business model is about appealing to a younger sports-car owner who wants quick power fast and cheap with no obvious issues in the short to midterm (Google for the discounting principle). They also have to create new maps, quickly, for other new cars, quickly leaving other engine platforms in the dust with no iterative improvements. You're trading more WHP for more risk and uncertainty. But isn't that what we're here for ?

But once you venture into bolt-ons, aftermarket fueling, and turbos you'd have to be coocoo in the head to think that an OTS map is anywhere near as efficient as a tailored tune by an experienced tuner on any platform, not just Ecutek - unless you're the one supplying the car for the OTS map development running E47 mix for an E30 tune with a Wagner Evo 3 fmic .

Even taking a step back, how many owners of these cars have access to 93 octane but can't even run the 93 OTS map correctly without any issues? Same for 91 octane users? How many of these owners post their datalog on the forums to non-tuners like ourselves for advice? You have the security from that with a custom tuner.

Just my 2c and opinion. I could be wrong on all fronts and don't mean to bash on anyone.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by -Eidos

Agreed to some extent. The only thing BM3 and MHD has over Ecutek are the OTS maps and the ease of use (Bang for the buck). What's planned on the product road-map, to me, are only words. I'm sure Ecutek has feature roll-outs as well.

To me, I think it all depends on how you define what is "good/better".

For me, I'd pay an extra $500-$1000 in a heartbeat to know that my car is running great on all engine parameters. I'd rather go with an experienced tuner working on a proper tuning platform, which has properly defined table definitions, working on my car vs. a platform that requires tuners to make assumptions on what the DME does to create a one size fits all approach.

So are you saying that Ecutek allows tuners access to tables and other functionality within the DME that MHD and BM3 do not? Because that's what you are implying in your paragraph above, but I'm not sure that's true. Being willing to pay for a custom tune on any platform to get a tailored map of your car is one thing, but saying that Ecutek offers tuning functionality over MHD and BM3 is something entirely different.

So what exactly is Ecutek bringing to the table? That's what id like to know. I don't need a full technical explanation at this point, just a simple list of features that are unique to Ecutek.

[-Eidos]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

So are you saying that Ecutek allows tuners access to tables and other functionality within the DME that MHD and BM3 do not? Because that's what you are implying in your paragraph above, but I'm not sure that's true. Being willing to pay for a custom tune on any platform to get a tailored map of your car is one thing, but saying that Ecutek offers tuning functionality over MHD and BM3 is something entirely different.

So what exactly is Ecutek bringing to the table? That's what id like to know. I don't need a full technical explanation at this point, just a simple list of features that are unique to Ecutek.

Regarding its abilities as a tuning platform, that's all I know. Maybe a tuner that has used both can chime in on specifics.

Regarding the list of features, I'm not a salesperson for Ecutek but you can view it easily on the site here:

For consumers:
https://www.ecutek.com/downloads/mar...F%20Series.pdf

[ZM2]

If it were a couple years ago, your thoughts are correct.

But, the latest generation OTS maps are much more complex now than what the custom tuners are doing to extract power in all driving situations = as much or more power than custom, while being safer in varying conditions.

But, if someone going down the Ecutek path wants to show they're able to create more power than Stg 2+ E30 and that it works year round on & off track with no issues, let's see it.

My predicted outcome is they'll spend a lot more time & money getting there, and IF they see more power, it'll only be a handful of hp. Doesn't make sense, IMO, unless you're tuning around some very, very specific fuel issue or going for some crazy custom turbo/hardware setup.

Originally Posted by -Eidos

Agreed to some extent. The only thing BM3 and MHD has over Ecutek are the OTS maps and the ease of use (Bang for the buck). What's planned on the product road-map, to me, are only words. I'm sure Ecutek has feature roll-outs as well.

To me, I think it all depends on how you define what is "good/better".

For me, I'd pay an extra $500-$1000 in a heartbeat to know that my car is running great on all engine parameters. I'd rather go with an experienced tuner working on a proper tuning platform, which has properly defined table definitions, working on my car vs. a platform that requires tuners to make assumptions on what the DME does to create a one size fits all approach.

The OTS maps are great for the general masses, don't get me wrong. They're especially great if your car was the one going through the R&D for the OTS tune. They're also great at squeezing out every ounce of your components for cheap. But you have no visibility into how close you are to the limits on your specific components. You never hear about the random mid-term to long-term issues directly related to a tune because it's easier to deny plausibility on the tune and blame the components for getting old, etc. How many revisions of an OTS map do you ever see for a one-size-fits all map after release, two maybe three at most? How many test cars does the tuner use to get a significant sample size? Is that sufficient? You have to realize that the business model is about appealing to a younger sports-car owner who wants quick power fast and cheap with no obvious issues in the short to midterm (Google for the discounting principle). They also have to create new maps, quickly, for other new cars, quickly leaving other engine platforms in the dust with no iterative improvements. You're trading more WHP for more risk and uncertainty. But isn't that what we're here for ?

But once you venture into bolt-ons, aftermarket fueling, and turbos you'd have to be coocoo in the head to think that an OTS map is anywhere near as efficient as a tailored tune by an experienced tuner on any platform, not just Ecutek - unless you're the one supplying the car for the OTS map development running E47 mix for an E30 tune with a Wagner Evo 3 fmic .

Even taking a step back, how many owners of these cars have access to 93 octane but can't even run the 93 OTS map correctly without any issues? Same for 91 octane users? How many of these owners post their datalog on the forums to non-tuners like ourselves for advice? You have the security from that with a custom tuner.

Just my 2c and opinion. I could be wrong on all fronts and don't mean to bash on anyone.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by MTWO

It doesn’t compute for me that’s all since as I’ve said you get way more features for less from others especially when BM3 comes out with Flex and whatever else. Let’s just drop it I guess as we don’t see eye to eye on it right now. I respect your opinion and hope you do mine.

That's totally fine, just important to be informed. I'm not sure what you mean by the "more features", as to my knowledge MHD and BM3 has yet to deliver these custom features. That said they do have other differentiating features like the ones mentioned above.

Why pay for something when you don't know if it's ever going to actually come, or when it's going to come?

You still want to be the guinea pig when updates come out and you get stranded 2 hours on a dyno not being able to flash your car?

Update: Disclaimer: I'm inherently biased to ECUTek as that's what I use to tune my personal car. I appreciate ECUTek because the feature are there in my hands to use today. There are always upsides and downsides to either tuning platform and it's important for the end-user to know about. When BM3 has the features out I'd be happy to re-evaluate the statements above.

ECUTek requires a windows laptop as an example, BM3 and MHD can be done with a smart phone etc.

BM3 has features that ECUTek needs to catch up to as well like cloud based datalogging, being able to scan codes across all modules, cloud based map editor. Again all apples to oranges

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Isn't all of this available with BM3 and MHD already? Not only do they have OTS tunes but people can tune your car remotely?

No, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

So are you saying that Ecutek allows tuners access to tables and other functionality within the DME that MHD and BM3 do not? Because that's what you are implying in your paragraph above, but I'm not sure that's true. Being willing to pay for a custom tune on any platform to get a tailored map of your car is one thing, but saying that Ecutek offers tuning functionality over MHD and BM3 is something entirely different.

So what exactly is Ecutek bringing to the table? That's what id like to know. I don't need a full technical explanation at this point, just a simple list of features that are unique to Ecutek.

In BM3 there are what, maybe 100-200 tables max? in ECUTek there are at least 1000, and that's only the ones they have discovered provided x,y axis for, as well as units. I got 6MT LC working in a matter of 2 revisions... on BM3 i had to correlate my rom to the definitions I had available for my S55... import to WinOLS or use a hex editor, import to BM3 and try again.

In Ecutek this was already all defined and I just needed flip the correct bits to get it done.

None the less ECUTek has "Racerom" which is true custom logic, meaning I, the calibrator can setup strategies that the factory DME doesn't have, or even better... compliment the factory strategies based on map switch mode I want, or real time ethanol content, or adjusting 0-100% in terms of torque, boost, or what have you via the sport gauges, or the bluetooth app.


As an engineer by day, there are some appeals to the web based editor of BM3 don't get me wrong, but ultimately for those that want to tune OE style and have the privellege of getting access to internal bosch/bmw documents which strive to understand how the OE's do it and want to apply it to our cars.. the only way is ECUTek.

Or we can continue spending loads of hours defining things in WinOLS, import it to BM3, hope it gets imported correctly, and still lose visibility into the logging parameters that we don't have with BM3 unless.. we again disassemble the factory ROM.. find the ram addresses of the values, and hope BM3 can access it over ENET via the gateway.

What sounds better to you? A tuner that can be more effective on a tried and tested platform, or a tuner that has to spend loads of hours doing things in which ECUTek has a very specialized and experience team doing for you 8x5?

Originally Posted by ZM2

If it were a couple years ago, your thoughts are correct.

But, the latest generation OTS maps are much more complex now than what the custom tuners are doing to extract power in all driving situations = as much or more power than custom, while being safer in varying conditions.

But, if someone going down the Ecutek path wants to show they're able to create more power than Stg 2+ E30 and that it works year round on & off track with no issues, let's see it.

My predicted outcome is they'll spend a lot more time & money getting there, and IF they see more power, it'll only be a handful of hp. Doesn't make sense, IMO, unless you're tuning around some very, very specific fuel issue or going for some crazy custom turbo/hardware setup.

Not everyone's end goal is a piece of paper with numbers.

[-Eidos]

Originally Posted by ZM2

If it were a couple years ago, your thoughts are correct.

But, the latest generation OTS maps are much more complex now than what the custom tuners are doing to extract power in all driving situations = as much or more power than custom, while being safer in varying conditions.

But, if someone going down the Ecutek path wants to show they're able to create more power than Stg 2+ E30 and that it works year round on & off track with no issues, let's see it.

My predicted outcome is they'll spend a lot more time & money getting there, and IF they see more power, it'll only be a handful of hp. Doesn't make sense, IMO, unless you're tuning around some very, very specific fuel issue or going for some crazy custom turbo/hardware setup.

Don't get me wrong, I'm trying to not make this a pp measuring contest. But you lay the burden of proof on the person receiving the custom tune when there isn't long-term proven data on cars running on an OTS map on and off the track currently on the typical upgrades that you see (Maybe you know of some?)

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by cookiesowns

That's totally fine, just important to be informed. I'm not sure what you mean by the "more features", as to my knowledge MHD and BM3 has yet to deliver these custom features.

Why pay for something when you don't know if it's ever going to actually come, or when it's going to come?

You still want to be the guinea pig when updates come out and you get stranded 2 hours on a dyno not being able to flash your car?



No, you're comparing apples to oranges.



In BM3 there are what, maybe 100-200 tables max? in ECUTek there are at least 1000, and that's only the ones they have discovered provided x,y axis for, as well as units. I got 6MT LC working in a matter of 2 revisions... on BM3 i had to correlate my rom to the definitions I had available for my S55... import to WinOLS or use a hex editor, import to BM3 and try again.

In Ecutek this was already all defined and I just needed flip the correct bits to get it done.

None the less ECUTek has "Racerom" which is true custom logic, meaning I, the calibrator can setup strategies that the factory DME doesn't have, or even better... compliment the factory strategies based on map switch mode I want, or real time ethanol content, or adjusting 0-100% in terms of torque, boost, or what have you via the sport gauges, or the bluetooth app.


As an engineer by day, there are some appeals to the web based editor of BM3 don't get me wrong, but ultimately for those that want to tune OE style and have the privellege of getting access to internal bosch/bmw documents which strive to understand how the OE's do it and want to apply it to our cars.. the only way is ECUTek.

Or we can continue spending loads of hours defining things in WinOLS, import it to BM3, hope it gets imported correctly, and still lose visibility into the logging parameters that we don't have with BM3 unless.. we again disassemble the factory ROM.. find the ram addresses of the values, and hope BM3 can access it over ENET via the gateway.

What sounds better to you? A tuner that can be more effective on a tried and tested platform, or a tuner that has to spend loads of hours doing things in which ECUTek has a very specialized and experience team doing for you 8x5?



Not everyone's end goal is a piece of paper with numbers.

So bottom line it sounds like ECUTek does offer access to additional tables within the DME and allows adding custom logic/tables (beyond adjusting what the DME already has). If that functionality is truly unique to ECUTek, then i can see that as a distinguishing factor to go this route. Its not for everyone, probably not even for most, but as time goes those with custom builds and unique mods might go down this path. I think most N55s are just not at this stage yet (most people are stock motor with bolt ons and not running around with built motors, ported heads, or custom parts, since the N55 is relatively young), so for most people the OTS route (or even custom with MHD/BM3) makes sense, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with ECUTek and its not a viable option (and possibly even better option) for some people.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

So bottom line it sounds like ECUTek does offer access to additional tables within the DME and allows adding custom logic/tables (beyond adjusting what the DME already has). If that functionality is truly unique to ECUTek, then i can see that as a distinguishing factor to go this route. Its not for everyone, probably not even for most, but as time goes those with custom builds and unique mods might go down this path. I think most N55s are just not at this stage yet (most people are stock motor with bolt ons and not running around with built motors, ported heads, or custom parts, since the N55 is relatively young), so for most people the OTS route (or even custom with MHD/BM3) makes sense, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with ECUTek and its not a viable option (and possibly even better option) for some people.

Exactly. I can’t speak for others, but I simply don’t bother with cars on MHD or BM3 even if they pay me big dollars just not worth it.

Competition is good, if and when BM3 release those features it only benefits the consumers by having more choices.

For now... ECUTek is a no brainer for our clientele.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by -Eidos

Don't get me wrong, I'm trying to not make this a pp measuring contest. But you lay the burden of proof on the person receiving the custom tune when there isn't long-term proven data on cars running on an OTS map on and off the track currently on the typical upgrades that you see (Maybe you know of some?)

You do realize that argument works in OTS's favor? There are way more guys (and data points) running OTS than custom tunes.

The only way a custom tune produces more power than the new OTS tunes is by eating into safety margins. The limited power upside of that approach does not interest me especially when my car sees the majority of its life on track or at WOT. If I were a street or single pull kind of guy, maybe my thoughts would be different.

In my case, I have about 40 track days on BM3 OTS tunes with no tune related issues, while I tried a well known custom tuner (CJ) who couldn't make a map as stable or strong at Stg 2+ E30 on the same hardware.

BM3 has raised the bar--let's see some hot shot tuners do better than Stg 2+ E30 and hear that their engine is still intact a year later. I've pushed the new OTS super hard in 105F+ weather and power levels stayed consistent, which is pretty amazing.