F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N47 and N57 Turbodiesel Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Transfer Case Output Flange Failure, Cause Analysis, Prevention, and Repair
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-24-2020, 01:16 PM   #199
opinion914
Private First Class
14
Rep
117
Posts

Drives: F31 N47
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Orange County NY

iTrader: (0)

Went in for the flex recall and came out with a new TC. She was studdering with XDrive on. Oddly enough, the rear flange wasn't slipping. When in RWD only the car had no studder. There must have been an issue with the front flange slipping or the TC clutch being compromised because the studder was only present with Xdrive engaged. I'd love have taken the old TC back and diagnose it but I was giddy like a schoolgirl after being told I had a new TC and forgot to ask.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2020, 06:06 PM   #200
Enabled
Captain
337
Rep
894
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon, M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by opinion914 View Post
Went in for the flex recall and came out with a new TC. She was studdering with XDrive on. Oddly enough, the rear flange wasn't slipping. When in RWD only the car had no studder. There must have been an issue with the front flange slipping or the TC clutch being compromised because the studder was only present with Xdrive engaged. I'd love have taken the old TC back and diagnose it but I was giddy like a schoolgirl after being told I had a new TC and forgot to ask.
I assume you're using xdelete?


Did the issue only happen when turning at very low speeds, by any chance?
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon, 8HP flash, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs.
-2019 M2 Competition MT, Alpine White. Self-tuned 560hp
Others:
-E36 328is. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual. Estoril Z3M Coupe.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2020, 08:26 PM   #201
opinion914
Private First Class
14
Rep
117
Posts

Drives: F31 N47
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Orange County NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enabled View Post
I assume you're using xdelete?


Did the issue only happen when turning at very low speeds, by any chance?
Yes to Xdelete. No to slow speed turning. The shudder only occured under hard acceleration, typically in a straight line.
Perhaps the rear flange was wearing and the residue was picked up by the TC oil - contaminating the clutches.
Appreciate 0
      04-11-2021, 04:01 PM   #202
2017F30
Enlisted Member
18
Rep
35
Posts

Drives: 2017 330iX AT
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Toronto, ON

iTrader: (0)

@Enabled much respect for the extremely informative write up. Read through everything and wanted to verify all cars *after* 07/2015 indeed had the all rubber guibo installed on the assembly line?
Appreciate 0
      04-11-2021, 05:53 PM   #203
Enabled
Captain
337
Rep
894
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon, M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2017F30 View Post
@Enabled much respect for the extremely informative write up. Read through everything and wanted to verify all cars *after* 07/2015 indeed had the all rubber guibo installed on the assembly line?
The date specifically is about the diesels, as the 330iX should all have had the rubber 105mm giubo (26117610061) from factory. Your 2017 definitely has the rubber one.
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon, 8HP flash, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs.
-2019 M2 Competition MT, Alpine White. Self-tuned 560hp
Others:
-E36 328is. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual. Estoril Z3M Coupe.
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2021, 01:08 PM   #204
auburnf30x
Second Lieutenant
auburnf30x's Avatar
130
Rep
203
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW 330i xDrive
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Auburn, AL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Great thread with a lot of good info thanks to the OP. Glad to know my 2017 already has the fix, should hopefully be solid, I don't plan on doing any power mods or wheel/tire size changes.

Follow up question...I had known for a while now that the TC was a weak point on the F30, but did not know that they'd actually made a fix for it somewhere along the way. I had planned on changing the TC oil at the same time as the differentials (60k) thinking it would help, although it sounds like the failure isn't oil related. I'm nowhere close to that, but contacted an indy as well as an actual BMW dealer to get an estimate on that...I'm no stranger to DIY but the process sounds fairly involved. Both told me it was a lifetime fluid and completely unnecessary.

Would you say that is correct, for the newer TC with the updated components? Or do you think the oil should be changed at some point for long term dependability?
__________________
2017 330i xDrive Imperial Blue Exterior / Venetian Beige Leather with Oyster Accent Interior / Anthracite Wood Trim

Appreciate 0
      04-14-2021, 01:53 PM   #205
Onizukachan
Great Teacher
Onizukachan's Avatar
United_States
232
Rep
464
Posts

Drives: E46/3 M56 & F31d
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: El Paso

iTrader: (0)

Change the oil. Lifetime fill is double speak.


I plan on doing mine sometime between 35-50k, but that’s going to be a while for me since I have like 3k on the TC now.
__________________
‘15 F31d M-Sport with the usual OEM+ mods:
B Pillar Ambient lighting, LCI AC control & ambient lighted panel + LCI anthracite trim & vent,
F80 paddles + extendable merino armrest + trim cover w/ merino knee bolster, EU headlight switch, 340/330 brake upgrade.
Appreciate 1
      04-14-2021, 02:12 PM   #206
auburnf30x
Second Lieutenant
auburnf30x's Avatar
130
Rep
203
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW 330i xDrive
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Auburn, AL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizukachan View Post
Change the oil. Lifetime fill is double speak.


I plan on doing mine sometime between 35-50k, but that’s going to be a while for me since I have like 3k on the TC now.
Thanks, I figured, wanted to make sure just in case since my original reason for planning the change turned out to not be an issue.

I'll still plan on doing mine at 60k, seeing as how I'm going to be elbow deep cussing the thing out at both ends already.
__________________
2017 330i xDrive Imperial Blue Exterior / Venetian Beige Leather with Oyster Accent Interior / Anthracite Wood Trim

Appreciate 1
      04-14-2021, 03:07 PM   #207
Enabled
Captain
337
Rep
894
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon, M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnf30x View Post
Great thread with a lot of good info thanks to the OP. Glad to know my 2017 already has the fix, should hopefully be solid, I don't plan on doing any power mods or wheel/tire size changes.

Follow up question...I had known for a while now that the TC was a weak point on the F30, but did not know that they'd actually made a fix for it somewhere along the way. I had planned on changing the TC oil at the same time as the differentials (60k) thinking it would help, although it sounds like the failure isn't oil related. I'm nowhere close to that, but contacted an indy as well as an actual BMW dealer to get an estimate on that...I'm no stranger to DIY but the process sounds fairly involved. Both told me it was a lifetime fluid and completely unnecessary.

Would you say that is correct, for the newer TC with the updated components? Or do you think the oil should be changed at some point for long term dependability?
The BMW fix is the rubber flex disk (giubo) instead of the aluminum flex disk that was installed in earlier cars. The transfer cases themselves do not have any updates. This more of a problem with the aluminum giubo than a transfer case problem.

The aluminum giubo was too rigid and would rebound engine vibrations into the output flange. Eventually something had to give, so the output flange splines would wear down from the constant hammering.

The rubber giubo was my proposed fix as well, plus essentially immobilizing the output flange with a 'glue' designed for spline shafts. That is what the Loctite is for. It prevents movement, and the rubber giubo dampens the vibrations.


The newer cars already come with the rubber giubo, which is why they weren't included in the diesel recall.
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon, 8HP flash, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs.
-2019 M2 Competition MT, Alpine White. Self-tuned 560hp
Others:
-E36 328is. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual. Estoril Z3M Coupe.
Appreciate 1
      04-15-2021, 02:29 AM   #208
fpladdict
New Member
0
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: 2013 320i M Sport
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Hi,

Sorry for the double post about this, perhaps I put my other one in the wrong place. I am desperate for some help on this fault that I think applies to me and my local BMW dealer will be phoning very soon to ask me what they should do

2013 3 Series petrol M Sport xdrive, purchased brand new and I am the only one to have ever driven it. I love my car and treat it extremely well. It is driven gently and moderately, mostly long distance on motorways. I have done 48,000 miles in it.

Immediately after a previous service (to replace a wheel bearing and the sensor that does all the electronic stuff) I noticed a clunking nose occasionally happening underneath the accelerator area. It didnt seem to impact the actual car too much but pulling away from a standing start at roundabouts was the time I noticed it the most. I did notice it sometimes at higher speeds as well. I could even "feel" the clunk through the accelerator. I took it in to be looked at by BMW and have received the following line in the email I got back this afternoon

"Clunking noise from VTG Internal fault. Requires VTG"

This is priced at a staggering £4,200. Is this the fault a lot of people in this thread are reporting? They changed two of the tyres in January and left the other two the same could that have anything to do with it?

I dont know what to do this morning. The whole car is probably worth only £10,000 on the second hand market so £4200 to fix this fault seems insane. Am I better off telling BMW UK to forget it and try and find and independent dealer myself? I worry about that as I have no idea how to pick a good one. Is there something I should tell BMW to do if I do stomach the cost and go for a repair? Is this cost normal? I dont know how to approach this. Do I get the tyres changed as well? 6.89 and 6.9 on the rear but much lower on the front.

Thank you so much for any replies in the next hour or two.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2021, 07:53 AM   #209
Enabled
Captain
337
Rep
894
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon, M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

The surest way to know if that is the failure is to have a visual inspection of the output flange. It does sound like it, but it's difficult to confirm. Their phrase doesn't tell us much.

I personally wouldn't have it repaired at the dealer if you have a very good mechanic elsewhere. The cost is about right, for a dealer.

Driving gently doesn't prevent this, so that wouldn't matter.
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon, 8HP flash, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs.
-2019 M2 Competition MT, Alpine White. Self-tuned 560hp
Others:
-E36 328is. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual. Estoril Z3M Coupe.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2021, 08:14 AM   #210
fpladdict
New Member
0
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: 2013 320i M Sport
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enabled View Post
The surest way to know if that is the failure is to have a visual inspection of the output flange. It does sound like it, but it's difficult to confirm. Their phrase doesn't tell us much.

I personally wouldn't have it repaired at the dealer if you have a very good mechanic elsewhere. The cost is about right, for a dealer.

Driving gently doesn't prevent this, so that wouldn't matter.
Thank you for the reply and useful information Enabled. I contacted an independent dealer this morning and received the following information from him which might prove useful to UK BMW customers.

- The transfer box is bad for going wrong (you all know this already of course)

- BMW have two quotes that they give to customers either for "the complete transfer box VTG" which is the expensive one I got or "the VTG motor on the side of the transfer box" which is about £1200

- Most affected drivers in my area are getting it repaired at the official dealer as BMW seem to paying a percentage under goodwill.

He recommended I asked the official dealer (where it currently is) about goodwill. I phoned them for an update (they had not contacted me back yet) and they had already applied for a goodwill discount without telling me, there has been no response from BMW HQ yet though.

I have one final question sorry if this has been already answered, I did read the thread but my techincal knowledge is poor. My front tires read 4.0 and 3.8. The back ones read 6.9 and 6.89. Could the difference between front and back have helped cause the failure? If so should I get front ones replaced.

Thank you again.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2021, 10:09 AM   #211
Enabled
Captain
337
Rep
894
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon, M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpladdict View Post
Thank you for the reply and useful information Enabled. I contacted an independent dealer this morning and received the following information from him which might prove useful to UK BMW customers.

- The transfer box is bad for going wrong (you all know this already of course)

- BMW have two quotes that they give to customers either for "the complete transfer box VTG" which is the expensive one I got or "the VTG motor on the side of the transfer box" which is about £1200

- Most affected drivers in my area are getting it repaired at the official dealer as BMW seem to paying a percentage under goodwill.

He recommended I asked the official dealer (where it currently is) about goodwill. I phoned them for an update (they had not contacted me back yet) and they had already applied for a goodwill discount without telling me, there has been no response from BMW HQ yet though.

I have one final question sorry if this has been already answered, I did read the thread but my techincal knowledge is poor. My front tires read 4.0 and 3.8. The back ones read 6.9 and 6.89. Could the difference between front and back have helped cause the failure? If so should I get front ones replaced.

Thank you again.
I can't speak for the tire wear differences at all, but I doubt it was the failure.


I'm going to pause one second...

Are they trying to replace JUST the VTG module? As in, the electronic control module for the transfer case?

That can be installed second hand, and they are typically found for $100-150 USD in very good condition. It would then take a bit of programming after installation. That whole process is not terribly hard from anyone experienced.

If it's JUST the VTG, then this issue became a lot simpler to repair. So that would be good news!

It really should cost you at most $500-600 USD.


The problem I described in the first post is not related to the VTG module.
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon, 8HP flash, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs.
-2019 M2 Competition MT, Alpine White. Self-tuned 560hp
Others:
-E36 328is. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual. Estoril Z3M Coupe.
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2021, 01:27 AM   #212
fpladdict
New Member
0
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: 2013 320i M Sport
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enabled View Post
Are they trying to replace JUST the VTG module? As in, the electronic control module for the transfer case?

That can be installed second hand, and they are typically found for $100-150 USD in very good condition. It would then take a bit of programming after installation. That whole process is not terribly hard from anyone experienced.

If it's JUST the VTG, then this issue became a lot simpler to repair. So that would be good news!

It really should cost you at most $500-600 USD.


The problem I described in the first post is not related to the VTG module.
Hi Enabled,

I must admit my lack of technical knowledge prevents me from giving you as good a reply as I wish I could. The exact and complete wording from BMW on what needs to be done in my car is "Clunking noise from VTG Internal fault. Requires VTG" total cost - 4179.66 GBP.

My conversation with the indy dealer led me to believe he thinks they need to replace the whole "transfer box" on my car , which are known for going bad. I did search this on google and found this thread as I thought this was the same fault/repair everyone here was talking about but apologies if I am wrong.

Local BMW dealer are trying to get a goodwill % for me. I had a phonecall yesterday from them which being honest slightly irritated me. They basically gave me a small interview to "find out how much of a loyal customer" I am (their words) and took what I said there to try and get the goodwill. I have not heard back yet (car has been sat at dealer for 48hr now). Surely they can see the entire history of the car and me on their databases? I bought the car brand new from them and have only had it serviced at BMW dealers. The sunroof also literally exploded outwards whilst on the motorway when it was 3 years old which I paid for myself despite it being a manufacturing fault. I had to get £3000 worth of work done on this car over 2 services in January and March both at the official dealer. At the last one I was told it had been road tested and everything was good when I took it away, this clunking noise started immediately afterwards. It's only done 48k miles. If I dont get 80% off this repair I have to admit I am past it with BMW.

Last edited by fpladdict; 04-16-2021 at 02:47 AM..
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2021, 06:39 AM   #213
fpladdict
New Member
0
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: 2013 320i M Sport
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

BMW paying 100% of mine on goodwill. Fair play. I still have to pay £200 for "diagnosis and oils".
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2021, 07:25 AM   #214
F30_320D_UK
New Member
F30_320D_UK's Avatar
United Kingdom
12
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: BMW F30 320D M-Sport
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Manchester, UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpladdict View Post
BMW paying 100% of mine on goodwill. Fair play. I still have to pay £200 for "diagnosis and oils".
Great outcome!
I got 80% paid only for my 320d xdrive on BMW goodwill
I had to pay £1200...

Mine was replaced at 32k miles
Sat at 75k miles now, holding my breath
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2021, 07:55 AM   #215
Enabled
Captain
337
Rep
894
Posts

Drives: 328xd Wagon, M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

That is good news! I'd be curious of what your car's problem was, instead of the general "replace transfer case".
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon, 8HP flash, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs.
-2019 M2 Competition MT, Alpine White. Self-tuned 560hp
Others:
-E36 328is. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual. Estoril Z3M Coupe.
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2021, 08:53 AM   #216
fpladdict
New Member
0
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: 2013 320i M Sport
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F30_320D_UK View Post
Great outcome!
I got 80% paid only for my 320d xdrive on BMW goodwill
I had to pay £1200...

Mine was replaced at 32k miles
Sat at 75k miles now, holding my breath
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enabled View Post
That is good news! I'd be curious of what your car's problem was, instead of the general "replace transfer case".
Thanks both, When I go in to collect it and pay the £200 I will ask what the exact problem was and report back on here what they say. It seems a bit hit or miss who you get when you go to collect, the last time I got somebody who was just briefed to take payment and knew nothing about the actual service.
Appreciate 0
      04-19-2021, 08:43 AM   #217
fpladdict
New Member
0
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: 2013 320i M Sport
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Hi,

Picked up my car today and it feels like new again, the fault is fixed. I did get a little more clarification on what exactly was wrong so I will copy that word for word here.

Headed "Requirement B, Check and report clunking noise under slow acceleration"

"Carried out diagnosis. checked rolling circumference of all tyres. they are within spec. checked fault memories. ran diagnosis on vtc. removed plug and road tested. clunking noise gone. confirmed interntal fault in vtg. new transfer box required".

It was not mentioned at all at BMW when I was there, but I am certain they have given me a new set of keys as well. The old ones were worn and came apart very easily. It was handed back with shiny new ones and the radio station had defaulted to Capital Radio plus i had to realign the HUD.
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2021, 05:53 PM   #218
makkuro
New Member
2
Rep
23
Posts

Drives: F30 320i
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: North

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog_x View Post
Got this done last night. May have gone a lil heavy... Had a little unexpected loctite oozed out into the groove for the flange retaining ring. That was fun to clean out! I used the primer on shaft and flange and it appears it hastens the curing process quite a bit. The loctite had gotten clumpy in the groove in the 15 minutes or so spent before I came up with a way to clean it out. Probably spent 2 hours trying to comfort myself that it was all out and that the ring was fully seated lol. Though with that loctite it probably shouldn't be able to move anyways.

We'll see how it holds up, the flange teeth looked pretty good for 25k. Did the rubber guibo as well. For getting the bearing protrusion distance right I grabbed a drill bit with a 4.75mm diameter (spec'd range was 4+2mm), made that job pretty easy. Original distance was about 7-8mm.

I was starting to feel a little hiccup when starting from a dead stop, Dont know if it was the guibo, the loctite, or both, but that seems to be gone. Only have put a few miles on so far though.
Hello,

Can someone kindly educate me how do you adjust “bearing protrusion distance” during installation? Although I’m going to have a shop to replace my flange and giubo, I would like to familiarize myself with the process beforehand.

Thanks for your help!
Appreciate 0
      04-22-2021, 08:14 PM   #219
kdog_x
Second Lieutenant
139
Rep
297
Posts

Drives: 14 328d
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by makkuro View Post
Hello,

Can someone kindly educate me how do you adjust “bearing protrusion distance” during installation? Although I’m going to have a shop to replace my flange and giubo, I would like to familiarize myself with the process beforehand.

Thanks for your help!
Had to go back and check the date on that post! Wow, it's been two years already since I've messed with the transfer case... I think that's a personal record. Not sure what the mileage was back in April 2019, but she's coming up on 200k and the fix is still holding.

As far as your question about the bearing protrusion, you can see the bearing sticking forward in the picture I posted of it next to the drill bit, it's been awhile but I believe I just put a big socket over it and whacked it with a large rubber mallet to adjust the distance.
Appreciate 1
      04-29-2021, 07:06 PM   #220
-KingJames-
Private
3
Rep
60
Posts

Drives: F34 GT
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Self

iTrader: (0)

Have a 17 330ix GT, in very low speeds during parking and turning the wheels fully to the right or left, theres some vibrations coming from the front wheels. BMW diagnosed it as a bad Transfer case and quoted me a full replacement + labor.

Shouldn't my car have the new "fix" with the rubber gumbo? Trying to see if BMW NA will pay for it.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:32 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST