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      09-26-2022, 11:46 AM   #1
thisismikeyb
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Autocross Swaybar Upgrade STU Class

Figure this is a shot in the dark, but looking to see if anyone else is running their F30, preferably xDrive, in STU class with upgraded swaybars. I'm looking into this upgrade for next season, and trying to get some insight if it's going to be worth the cost.
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      03-08-2023, 04:36 PM   #2
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I would say it depends on your goals, and ability.

Can you install yourself? (Drop the subframe for front).

Are you at least semi-competitive locally? (I don’t think an f30 would be competitive nationally).

If yes, then probably.

But if you’re just out for fun it may be more trouble than it’s worth.

Last edited by SuperLomi; 03-09-2023 at 05:40 AM..
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      03-09-2023, 08:22 AM   #3
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I can install them myself as FaRKle! made a comprehensive guide for the process, do I want is the question.

Locally I would have to say I’ve been compeditive once I got a square set of 275’s on the car. I’m about 2 seconds off the fastest competitor in a stock 2022 M240i xDrive with upgraded tires, I expect to be closer this season now that the tires have had a few autocrosses on them.

Probably not going to ever go to nationals as I’m up in Alaska and it’s just too far of a trek to make.
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      05-27-2023, 04:06 PM   #4
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STU

I run my car in STU and I have gone to nationals a few times. It is certainly accurate to say that this platform is better suited for lapping than autox...the size and weight make it challenging at the national level.

I used to run a dinan front and rear bar and that worked ok...good adjustability. after a couple of years i decided to change it up and go with a bigger front bar so i went with the HR front sway bar and left the dinan in the rear.

you will certainly notice a difference in autox...no doubt about it. so for me i felt it was worth it since i did the work myself.

Last edited by brigade24; 05-27-2023 at 04:07 PM.. Reason: claritin clarity
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      05-28-2023, 11:18 AM   #5
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My car is up on jack stands, hopefully going to be tackling the front swaybar today, it doesn't look too bad, just a lot of little things to removed.

Alaska Porsche club had a bigger circuit that I ran last year, and the car definitely likes the less technical higher speed stuff.
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Last edited by thisismikeyb; 05-28-2023 at 11:30 AM.. Reason: Reasons
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      06-06-2023, 08:20 PM   #6
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Just finished my first autocross with the swaybars, and it made a pretty big difference. Car felt more composed and easier to control. The wife just started autocrossing, and for her second event she even said the car felt better.

Unfortunately, it sounds like after almost 119k miles the CV joints are on there way out.
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      06-12-2023, 01:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thisismikeyb View Post
Just finished my first autocross with the swaybars, and it made a pretty big difference. Car felt more composed and easier to control. The wife just started autocrossing, and for her second event she even said the car felt better.

Unfortunately, it sounds like after almost 119k miles the CV joints are on there way out.
that's awesome...about the bars (not the CV joints). that's really strange, i've been on the same axles since i bought the car with lots of autocross events and I haven't had to touch the axles. 246k kilometers on the car.

maybe get a 2nd opinion...the axles are pricey so it's a good idea to make sure.
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      06-20-2023, 04:44 PM   #8
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Did you do both the front and rear H&R sway bars or just the front sway bars?

I also noticed that you are running a 275/35/18 tire and 18x9.5 ET35 with a 12mm spacer for the front. Was that spacer even necessary? or would the tire/wheel clear okay? An effective 23mm offset for the front seems pretty extreme. It feels like you would get substantial poke.
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      06-20-2023, 07:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
Did you do both the front and rear H&R sway bars or just the front sway bars?

I also noticed that you are running a 275/35/18 tire and 18x9.5 ET35 with a 12mm spacer for the front. Was that spacer even necessary? or would the tire/wheel clear okay? An effective 23mm offset for the front seems pretty extreme. It feels like you would get substantial poke.
I replaced both, overall not a hard job, just time consuming.

I have about -2.44 degrees of front camber, so the front tires are pretty flush with the fenders. Originally I was not planning on buying spacers, but Apex recommended it and I couldn’t be happier with the results as the tires would have rubbed on the strut.
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      06-21-2023, 06:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thisismikeyb View Post
I replaced both, overall not a hard job, just time consuming.

I have about -2.44 degrees of front camber, so the front tires are pretty flush with the fenders. Originally I was not planning on buying spacers, but Apex recommended it and I couldn’t be happier with the results as the tires would have rubbed on the strut.
Is this because you needed to clear the Bilstein B6s?

I thought that a 275/35/18 on a 18x9.5 ET35 would have cleared OEM struts without the need for spacers.

DVC has a similar set up while using Ohlins R&T and I don't recall him needing spacers to clear the front. I also had the Ohlins R&T and I think the clearance issue was the sidewall of the tires rubbing against the spring perch of the coilover more so than the wheels not being able to clear the strut body.

I'm not doubting your observations - I just want to understand why and exactly what component cannot clear.
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      06-21-2023, 07:43 AM   #11
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You need a space for the tire to clear the OEM strut. If your strut/coil over allows for more clearance than that you may be ok (I don’t know that any do?).

I have the same wheel with 265 profile tires I had only 1mm clearance between tire and strut, if that (Kuhmo V730’s). So you probably want a 3-5mm spacer here (I went with 3mm and it seems ok).

With a 275 tire I can’t imagine it fits without something more significant, and at that point you will want a spacer which includes a hubcentric ring - so you’re looking at 10mm minimum.

With any of these you will need to be able to adjust a significant amount of camber.
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      06-22-2023, 11:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
Is this because you needed to clear the Bilstein B6s?

I thought that a 275/35/18 on a 18x9.5 ET35 would have cleared OEM struts without the need for spacers.

DVC has a similar set up while using Ohlins R&T and I don't recall him needing spacers to clear the front. I also had the Ohlins R&T and I think the clearance issue was the sidewall of the tires rubbing against the spring perch of the coilover more so than the wheels not being able to clear the strut body.

I'm not doubting your observations - I just want to understand why and exactly what component cannot clear.
Before mounting tires there was about 1mm of clearance between the wheel and the strut. The Kuhmo's in 275 width I don't feel would have cleared with 3mm spacers, it might have cleared with a 5 mm spacer.

Overall, with the camber plates maxed and the 12mm spacers, the fitment and stance are great. I'll have to take some pictures at the next autocross when I swap back over to them.
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      06-22-2023, 01:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thisismikeyb View Post
Before mounting tires there was about 1mm of clearance between the wheel and the strut. The Kuhmo's in 275 width I don't feel would have cleared with 3mm spacers, it might have cleared with a 5 mm spacer.

Overall, with the camber plates maxed and the 12mm spacers, the fitment and stance are great. I'll have to take some pictures at the next autocross when I swap back over to them.
https://support.apexraceparts.com/hc...-Fitment-Guide

Quote:

Front & Rear: 18x9.5" ET35 with 265/35-18 tires
Available in: ARC-8, EC-7, FL-5, SM-10, VS-5RS
Extremely close front inner clearance, 3-5mm front spacers may be required depending on tire brand.
Additional negative camber recommended up front to prevent rubbing.
Rear fender roll may be required depending on ride height and tire brand.
I forgot to mention both DVC and I have F80 front control arms if I remember correctly. That might affect fitment slightly.

Of note, in order to gain more tire clearance to the Ohlins R&T spring perch, I actually removed my -0.5 degree camber wheel knuckles and installed +0.5 degree camber wheel knuckles. It provided an additional 3-4mm in clearance to the strut body. This is not the most cost effective way to gain clearance and is only appropriate if you have camber plates where you can compensate for the camber gain from the +0.5 degree camber wheel knuckles.
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      06-23-2023, 07:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
https://support.apexraceparts.com/hc...-Fitment-Guide



I forgot to mention both DVC and I have F80 front control arms if I remember correctly. That might affect fitment slightly.

Of note, in order to gain more tire clearance to the Ohlins R&T spring perch, I actually removed my -0.5 degree camber wheel knuckles and installed +0.5 degree camber wheel knuckles. It provided an additional 3-4mm in clearance to the strut body. This is not the most cost effective way to gain clearance and is only appropriate if you have camber plates where you can compensate for the camber gain from the +0.5 degree camber wheel knuckles.
I talked with Apex directly when ordering my wheels and spacers last year, not sure why you would link back to their website as they only recommend up to 265's.

I'm confused, why would you install F80 front control arms and then counter half of the gain with +0.5 knuckles?
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      06-23-2023, 07:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thisismikeyb View Post
I talked with Apex directly when ordering my wheels and spacers last year, not sure why you would link back to their website as they only recommend up to 265's.

I'm confused, why would you install F80 front control arms and then counter half of the gain with +0.5 knuckles?
I provided a link back to their website to illustrate that what they are saying is generally consistent with your experience - it wasn't to dispute what you were saying. I don't recall them indicating that fitment worked when I bought my wheels shortly after the release of the F30 chassis.

The F80 front control arms were largely for better feel from its more performance oriented bushings. With a factory-like suspension, another benefit was the additional negative camber without needing to resort to camber plates.

If the tire / wheel clearance to the strut body / strut spring perch is the issue, there's only a few ways to correct that:
1. wheel offset
2. spacers in lieu of wheel offset
3. +0.5 camber wheel hubs (most expensive option)
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      07-10-2023, 11:24 AM   #16
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Autocrossed yesterday, I would estimate that there is about 5mm of clearance between the tire and the strut.

Yesterdays course really focused on smooth driving, and the swaybars definitely made a difference.

Picture is the car on 275’s square, no rubbing at any point.
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