[52172]

Anyone running the jb or Dinan over the mppk tune? Did it add another 4 psi? Decent gain? For only 200 was thinking of doing it? Thanks

[XutvJet]

I'm running the Dinantronics Sport on my M235 (comes stock with the MPPK). Yes, these devices can add around 4psi over the stock MPPK boost (around 10 psi).

I've found that in hot weather (75+), the car runs smoother and more consistently with the setting at Sport which is 2-2.5 psi over stock. It feels very linear and stock like in terms of power delivery, but definitely a bit more power than stock. It feels nearly as good power wise as the Sport+ setting. The Race setting (4 psi) just doesn't feel consistent when the car is heat soaked and it's hot out. I've watched timing on my Torque app and there's definitely some wonkiness in the higher boost settings when it's hot out or the motor really heat soaked. Once temps drop back into the 60s, I dial up a bit as the motor/DME seem good with it. I'm running 93 octane by the way.

[52172]

Wonder if an upgraded intercooler would help with the timing issue? I’ll bet it would allow race setting to be run in the heat?

[XutvJet]

Doubtful as this just normal street driving and not a lot of hard driving or heavy rpms. Upgraded ICs do little to improve low rpm heat soak. Their intent is to keep temps lower under heavy boost and hard driving.

To me it feels like the DME is flaking out a bit trying to make sense out of why more boost is being commanded when other parameters don't totally jive. Thus a bit more lag followed by a lot of power. Don't get me wrong, driveability isn't total crap and no CELs are being thrown. I'll also note that I have a 6MT and running the higher boost settings in the warmer temps and with the Sport throttle makes things rather jumpy and harder to drive smoothly in the lower gears. With the device set to Sport all is well and the power feels linear, robust, and always consistent. Its easy enough to switch between settings on the fly too. I've ran all settings for long durations and Sport seems best in the summer and Sport+ in spring/fall/winter. On not obcessed with all out power. I want a solid performer with good driveability.

[ProperBimmer]

Have jb+ on top of mppk on my f30 335. Love it, car should have came like this. Absolutely shit that you have to pay for the mppk (my car came with it) then you have to add something on top to give it nuts. My car runs/ran perfectly all seasons with it, I only have the jb+ at around +2 psi maybe?? Car runs stronger definitely in the winter obviously due to cooler air temps, can't really feel timing pull or anything in the summer.

Totally recommend it, so easy to pull for service if your warrantied. For me no point in heavy mods, this shit is as far as I'll go before my f80 or 911 next.

[ProperBimmer]

Originally Posted by ProperBimmer

Have jb+ on top of mppk on my f30 335. Love it, car should have came like this. Absolutely shit that you have to pay for the mppk (my car came with it) then you have to add something on top to give it nuts. My car runs/ran perfectly all seasons with it, I only have the jb+ at around +2 psi maybe?? Car runs stronger definitely in the winter obviously due to cooler air temps, can't really feel timing pull or anything in the summer.

Totally recommend it, so easy to pull for service if your warrantied. For me no point in heavy mods, this shit is as far as I'll go before my f80 or 911 next.

Shoot me a pm if you have any questions...this is my 4th 335 with similar mods, 19 years in bimmers. I can answer questions you may not want to post!! Lol

[52172]

Originally Posted by ProperBimmer

Have jb+ on top of mppk on my f30 335. Love it, car should have came like this. Absolutely shit that you have to pay for the mppk (my car came with it) then you have to add something on top to give it nuts. My car runs/ran perfectly all seasons with it, I only have the jb+ at around +2 psi maybe?? Car runs stronger definitely in the winter obviously due to cooler air temps, can't really feel timing pull or anything in the summer.

Totally recommend it, so easy to pull for service if your warrantied. For me no point in heavy mods, this shit is as far as I'll go before my f80 or 911 next.

Why not run it at +4 psi?

[Tyresian]

Originally Posted by 52172

Why not run it at +4 psi?

I did the same as ProperBimmer running +2 psi on top of my 335xi's MPPK. The reason is if you're requesting too much boost the car can run less smoothly and the boost might be more erratic. Also you're getting more boost with the MPPK already and +2 psi is a very nice compliment to the tuning with +4 you're losing some of the MPPK benefit and you're putting more strain on the engine and your charge pipe if you haven't replaced it.

You'd want to do some datalogging perhaps and see what looks better if you can identify such. Otherwise go by feel or try to just be "safer".

[52172]

Originally Posted by Tyresian

I did the same as ProperBimmer running +2 psi on top of my 335xi's MPPK. The reason is if you're requesting too much boost the car can run less smoothly and the boost might be more erratic. Also you're getting more boost with the MPPK already and +2 psi is a very nice compliment to the tuning with +4 you're losing some of the MPPK benefit and you're putting more strain on the engine and your charge pipe if you haven't replaced it.

You'd want to do some datalogging perhaps and see what looks better if you can identify such. Otherwise go by feel or try to just be "safer".

Gotcha.

[ProperBimmer]

Originally Posted by Tyresian

I did the same as ProperBimmer running +2 psi on top of my 335xi's MPPK. The reason is if you're requesting too much boost the car can run less smoothly and the boost might be more erratic. Also you're getting more boost with the MPPK already and +2 psi is a very nice compliment to the tuning with +4 you're losing some of the MPPK benefit and you're putting more strain on the engine and your charge pipe if you haven't replaced it.

You'd want to do some datalogging perhaps and see what looks better if you can identify such. Otherwise go by feel or try to just be "safer".

Yes 100% correct

[015iXMN55]

I have the dinantronics stacked on the mppk on my 15 335 xdrive manual. Definitely feel some lag while dinantronics is in race mode. Ultimately there is a definitely an improvement over just having the mppk. Has anyone tried the jb stage 1 stacked on mppk? Wonder if it's worth the extra 10-20 hp.

[mike@x-ph.com]

I know a lot of customer that have MPPK stacked with a JB+ ... I would not add 4 PSI though

[bqik]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

I know a lot of customer that have MPPK stacked with a JB+ ... I would not add 4 PSI though

how much would you add then? 2 PSI? as OP?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by bqik

how much would you add then? 2 PSI? as OP?

i would personally do 2 PSI since these tuners do not datalog or just get a JB4 and you can increase boost even more.

[johnung]

I just went through extensive research on these subjects and had them installed. Mike is an excellent resource for this and I ended up purchasing from him because of his knowledge and great prices. Here's what I learned.

Intercoolers: Most of the models for sale for an F30 N55 are heavy bar & plate designs that are really made for high rpms and racing. They won't help as much in the daily driving situation described in this thread. The stock BMW intercooler is a tube/fin design that is lighter and flows better so it recovers quickly from the heat and has less lag. The German-made Wagner Competition series are the only models that I have found that have the tube/fin design. I went with the Competition EVO1 model at Mike's recommendation (over the slightly larger Comp EVO2 model) since my goal was for daily driving with little turbo lag, less boost pressure drop and quick heat recovery. The Wagner intercooler arrived in an impeccably packaged box. It's obviously German crafted to very high specifications. Beautiful. So far I am extremely happy. Drives very responsive all of the time, even on very hot days. Exactly how Mike described.

Charge Pipe- The BMW plastic charge pipe has a weakness at the curve before it enters the throttle body. Odds are that it will eventually break and leave you with an expensive repair. Especially if you drive it hard and go with higher boost from MPPK, Dinan, JB, etc. You have to take out the intercooler to replace the charge pipe so might as well replace them both at the same time. I went with the Evolution Raceworks charge pipe. There are others that are cheaper but I've read too many fitment problems with them. The ER pipe seems to have the best reputation out there. When I got it it was packaged perfectly and it is beautifully well made. Wish it was located in a better spot to be more on-display.

O-Rings: Change out the two o-rings on the intercooler connections and at the charge pipe to throttle body connections. If one of them fails the leak will cause all kinds of crazy issues that are difficult and expensive to diagnose. Just smart to put in new 0-rings now.
These are special o-rings that fit in a groove on the INSIDE of each end of the charge pipe and also the end of the TIC pipe (to the turbo) that connects to the intercooler. The pipes slip over to make their connections so these o-rings are very important to have complete air seals. As it happened one of my stock o-rings had been crushed when installed at the factory and was about to fail.
My local dealer's price was ridiculous. So I paid $24 including shipping for all three o-rings from getbmwparts.com which is a BMW dealer that sells online. For an F30 N55 automatic x-drive: part# 13-71-8-596-850, preformed seals for intercooler, 2x$5.89 and part# 13-71-7-568-031 Air duct o-ring, 1x$4.06. Give them your VIN to check for the correct part numbers.

Quick Tunes: Obvious advantage that one can deinstall these very quickly before taking the car for service and even resell them later. Burger JB+ and Dinan are inexpensive tunes that plug-in to the TMAP sensor on the charge pipe near the throttle body. They simply increase the boost over whatever you have whether it is the standard BMW tune or the BMW MPPK tune. The JB+ comes by default set to +3.5 psi. You can actually open up the plastic JB+ box to adjust boost from +0 to +4 psi. The JB Stage1 costs more (about $379 vs $199) but besides connecting to the TMAP sensor it also connects to the MAP sensor on the intake manifold so it can also regulate engine timing. I've been told that the JB Stage1 runs smoother vs TMAP only tunes. The JB Stage1 also can be adjusted with an external special Burger serial/USB cable ($35) from 0 to +6 psi. Default is +3 psi.
Both Mike and Burger techs caution against turning the boost all the way up on a car already running MPPK increased boost (about +1 to +2 psi over stock) As Mike stated the JB4 is more suited to this because of the logging functionality so you can see what is really happening. You don't want to be running high boost and having your car constantly adjusting the timing so it doesn't knock. Remember that octane rating of your fuel (I always run 93 octane) and having an upgraded intercooler to manage intake temperatures are also factors to making an engine knock. There are trade-up deals to be had on JB+ and JB Stage1 to trade-up to a JB4 within a year, but verify with your retailer before purchase.
Hope this helps someone.

[52172]

I’m going bm3 custom flash with my CG precision catted dp through autowerke axle back. Resonator delete also. I’m leaning towards vsrf race intercooler with vsrf pipes. It will be a sic package.😎

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by 52172

I’m going bm3 custom flash with my CG precision catted dp through autowerke axle back. Resonator delete also. I’m leaning towards vsrf race intercooler with vsrf pipes. It will be a sic package.😎

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

i would personally do 2 PSI since these tuners do not datalog or just get a JB4 and you can increase boost even more.

I would agree with this after running my Dinantronics Sport on the M235 (already MPPK equipped) since Feburary and in all sorts of ambient conditions (dry 35 degree air to 103 degree humid air). If you want the best driveability, the "Sport" setting on the Dinan Sport is the best setting by a mile, IMO. It feels like MPPK+, just like you'd expect adding 2-2.5 psi. With the higher settings (Sport+ and Race), there are some occasional flat spots, delays, and lag (especially in Race). It's not consistent when it does it either which is annoying. Sometimes 3rd gear (6MT) can feel really flat. Other times it's strong. On tip-in throttle, the torque in the higher settings can feel strong and then goes flat if you bury the throttle. I believe the flat spots in power are the DME dealing with light detonation or a situation where it thinks detonation may occur.

In the Sport setting, the power is consistent and the motor never feels restrained. The motor just feels eager to rev out and it's robust in the midrange as well. To me, Sport feels just as powerful as Sport+ on it's best day, perhaps because the additive boost doesn't momentarily flake out the DME thus timing, AFR, etc. all play together well and I'm running 93 octane all the time. I really do love the Sport setting, in the hot and the cold (we recently had a 60 degree night and it felt really strong). This will be the setting the Dinan Sport stays in.

I look forward to running the Sport setting with a nice catted downpipe.

[BMWApp]

Originally Posted by Tyresian

I did the same as ProperBimmer running +2 psi on top of my 335xi's MPPK. The reason is if you're requesting too much boost the car can run less smoothly and the boost might be more erratic. Also you're getting more boost with the MPPK already and +2 psi is a very nice compliment to the tuning with +4 you're losing some of the MPPK benefit and you're putting more strain on the engine and your charge pipe if you haven't replaced it.

You'd want to do some datalogging perhaps and see what looks better if you can identify such. Otherwise go by feel or try to just be "safer".

I know I am reviving an old thread but I just bought a 2015 435i with MPPK and was looking at past discussions to see others did with stacking piggybacks. I also went with the JB+ set at +2 psi. I had originally set the JB+ at +4psi but also found that setup to be too jerky and agree that it took away from the benefits of the MPPK. With the JB+ at +2psi the car drives really smooth and has a nice boost in power. It's a great setup.