[luke1990]

Context: Since I got the car year ago it always had trouble with timing corrections despite being on 100ron(93oct+) gas only - even with octane boosters, ethanol/meth. Car now has Pure800, dorchst2 HPFP, DP, WMI, intake, exhaust etc.

I replaced plugs 4x, coils, flow-checked injectors - all good. No codes. Just lots of timing corrections and knocks in logs. Also interesting - 99% of my corrections are during spool or up to 4-5k rpm. My top end is clean always. Usually when I see bad gas from others - its the other way around (top end suffers).

I put Shell VPower Racing 100ron in (same result with OMW 100ron and Orlean 100ron). To rule out tune, I flashed stock tune & sure enough car pulls timing on all cylinders on stock map while cruising on highway. And shows several knocks. See here.

I then did 2 pulls and again - lots of correction down low - top end clean. See here and here. I just dont see how on stock map with 100ron it could be this bad.

Any ideas?
1. Again plugs?
2. Knock sensors?
3. Impact of free flowing exhasut w/o resonator (but had corrections like this before too)?
4. Compression & leakdown test?
5. Check valves and pistons for carbon deposit (valves unlikely - I have meth in chargepipe which should clean them)
6. New injectors (heard when taken out they may be bad)?

THANKS A TON! Any help appreciated!!! I'm really at a loss here

[kriszty]

Originally Posted by luke1990

Context: Since I got the car year ago it always had trouble with timing corrections despite being on 100ron(93oct+) gas only - even with octane boosters, ethanol/meth. Car now has Pure800, dorchst2 HPFP, DP, WMI, intake, exhaust etc.

I replaced plugs 4x, coils, flow-checked injectors - all good. No codes. Just lots of timing corrections and knocks in logs. Also interesting - 99% of my corrections are during spool or up to 4-5k rpm. My top end is clean always. Usually when I see bad gas from others - its the other way around (top end suffers).

I put Shell VPower Racing 100ron in (same result with OMW 100ron and Orlean 100ron). To rule out tune, I flashed stock tune & sure enough car pulls timing on all cylinders on stock map while cruising on highway. And shows several knocks. See here.

I then did 2 pulls and again - lots of correction down low - top end clean. See here and here. I just dont see how on stock map with 100ron it could be this bad.

Any ideas?
1. Again plugs?
2. Knock sensors?
3. Impact of free flowing exhasut w/o resonator (but had corrections like this before too)?
4. Compression & leakdown test?
5. Check valves and pistons for carbon deposit (valves unlikely - I have meth in chargepipe which should clean them)
6. New injectors (heard when taken out they may be bad)?

THANKS A TON! Any help appreciated!!! I'm really at a loss here

Strange... but if i see you logs it it occurs on cylinder 1,2 and 5 , what kind of plugs you,re using, and on your stock map is WMI active ?
what kind of WMI are you running ? ( where are you located ? )

[luke1990]

Originally Posted by kriszty

Strange... but if i see you logs it it occurs on cylinder 1,2 and 5 , what kind of plugs you,re using, and on your stock map is WMI active ?
what kind of WMI are you running ? ( where are you located ? )

It's on all cylinders just these logs show that. Also if you can see the first log on highway it's all cylinders.
No wmi active.
Should not be able to need wmi for that. On 100ron it shouldn't correct timing like this. People should be able to reasonably run this map on 91oct.
I'm thinking it's not the gas but something else. ESP since I get correction in the bottom range not on top

[kriszty]

Originally Posted by luke1990

It's on all cylinders just these logs show that. Also if you can see the first log on highway it's all cylinders.
No wmi active.
Should not be able to need wmi for that. On 100ron it shouldn't correct timing like this. People should be able to reasonably run this map on 91oct.
I'm thinking it's not the gas but something else. ESP since I get correction in the bottom range not on top

On these log ( https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6096...729b799c6eb0ab )
cylinder 1,2 and 5 have issues 3,4 and 6 stays clean. Did you also check if you have some erros. i think better to bring it back to the tuner, he should give you a better diagnose i hope

( Are you from Belgium ? )

[luke1990]

You're right. However this is stock map . Factory setting. I pulled my tuner map to test stock and realized I get massive corrections during spool on stock map as well with quality 100ron/93oct+ fuel. Plus on the highway I get these knocks - again - stock map, no tune. This should not be happening . I would understand if I put 95ron or 91ron, but not with 100.
Also like I said above. Typically on bad gas you see corrections also on top of the rev range. I don't have those. My tuner told me he is impressed how well the car handles top end vs how much correction I have down low

[kriszty]

Originally Posted by luke1990

You're right. However this is stock map . Factory setting. I pulled my tuner map to test stock and realized I get massive corrections during spool on stock map as well with quality 100ron/93oct+ fuel. Plus on the highway I get these knocks - again - stock map, no tune. This should not be happening . I would understand if I put 95ron or 91ron, but not with 100.
Also like I said above. Typically on bad gas you see corrections also on top of the rev range. I don't have those. My tuner told me he is impressed how well the car handles top end vs how much correction I have down low

what kind of spark plugs you have ? injectors you already replaced ? ( It can also be a bad injector, do the swap thing and see if the misfire moves to that cylinder, if it does it is a bad injector. ( spark plugs you can swap also )

[bigdnno98]

You can't flash your stock map and expect it to log like a stock car when you have an upgraded turbo. P800s are going to flow alot more air at the same boost psi as stock turbos, so..... in the log I'm looking at, i see an AFR of 13.97 at peak boost. That's not good.

[kriszty]

Originally Posted by bigdnno98

You can't flash your stock map and expect it to log like a stock car when you have an upgraded turbo. P800s are going to flow alot more air at the same boost psi as stock turbos, so..... in the log I'm looking at, i see an AFR of 13.97 at peak boost. That's not good.

Explain why AFR 13.97 at peak boost is not good, i thought Anywhere from high 12s to 14s depending on RPM is safe

[bigdnno98]

Originally Posted by kriszty

Explain why AFR 13.97 at peak boost is not good, i thought Anywhere from high 12s to 14s depending on RPM is safe

Originally Posted by kriszty

Explain why AFR 13.97 at peak boost is not good, i thought Anywhere from high 12s to 14s depending on RPM is safe

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...-applications/

Fuel AFRst FARst Equivalence Lambda
---- ----- ----- Ratio -----
=======================--====================================

Gasoline stoich 14.7 0.068 1 1
Gasoline Max power rich 12.5 0.08 1.176 0.8503
Gasoline Max power lean 13.23 0.0755 1.111 0.900

=======================--====================================

E85 stoich 9.765 0.01235 1 1
E85 Max power rich 6.975 0.1434 1.40 0.7143
E85 Max power lean 8.4687 0.118 1.153 0.8673


=======================--====================================

E100 stoich 9.0 0.111 1 1
E100 Max power rich 6.429 0.155 1.4 0.714
E100 Max power lean 7.8 0.128 1.15 0.870

[bigdnno98]

Max power for e85 is .85 lambda. Lambda 1 is stoich and is for cruising, not for any kind of load.

[bigdnno98]

Read this

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/e8...ratios.510017/

[SlowMo]

A lot of throttle closure and over boosting, I would sort that out first and see if timing improves

[kriszty]

Originally Posted by bigdnno98

Read this

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/e8...ratios.510017/

thanks for the info

( never to old to learn something more )

[weehe126]

As mentioned above you can't expect the stock tune to work with an upgraded hpfp and turbo. After throttle closure doesn't fix the overboost it starts to cut timing. You need a custom tune even for just pump gas.

[kriszty]

Originally Posted by weehe126

As mentioned above you can't expect the stock tune to work with an upgraded hpfp and turbo. After throttle closure doesn't fix the overboost it starts to cut timing. You need a custom tune even for just pump gas.

i can not believe there is no custom tune on that car together with the pure 800 and dorch stage 2 , but maybe i,m wrong

first 2 logs where tuned ( but if i look at the log, the bootmod log says stock tune )

[luke1990]

Originally Posted by kriszty

what kind of spark plugs you have ? injectors you already replaced ? ( It can also be a bad injector, do the swap thing and see if the misfire moves to that cylinder, if it does it is a bad injector. ( spark plugs you can swap also )

1st gen champions on 0.5mm gap as recommended; they are fresh too - will nevertheless try the TU ones.
I have no codes - there is no misfire. Injectors were flow-checked, coils swapped and new

[luke1990]

Originally Posted by bigdnno98

You can't flash your stock map and expect it to log like a stock car when you have an upgraded turbo. P800s are going to flow alot more air at the same boost psi as stock turbos, so..... in the log I'm looking at, i see an AFR of 13.97 at peak boost. That's not good.

Fully agree. I get a lot of timing corrections on my custom tune map. Correction down low during turbo spool and also saw knocks/corrections on cruise on higway on that tune. See here. Here is a log of backroad driving on the custom 93+WMI map - the pull at 00.293 is completely clean, then at 00.763 there is a knock and massive timing pull. Same at 01.165.

After all these corrections - even on highway cruise, I ran the car on stock map to see if this was indeed tune related or not and saw same issues. So was thinking its mechanical. On highway cruise there is very little boost - 1.6psi so not sure how that would cause issues. My view is - on stock map and 100ron gas I should not be getting knocks on the highway cruise no?

The AFR of stock map of course is crazy; same with throttle closure. I have those timing corrections on meth map too see here. This was a day before that with much less correction. Same fuel - looks like same IATs.

Overall - I feel like I have way more correction given the quality of fuel. Those timings corrections happen a lot on spool on already very low timing which should not happen. Usually when people have bad fuel, their top end timing suffer - mine doesnt as much.

[luke1990]

Originally Posted by SlowMo

A lot of throttle closure and over boosting, I would sort that out first and see if timing improves

Originally Posted by weehe126

As mentioned above you can't expect the stock tune to work with an upgraded hpfp and turbo. After throttle closure doesn't fix the overboost it starts to cut timing. You need a custom tune even for just pump gas.

I now answered in post above. I understand I need proper map - I have it. The reason car was ran on stock map was to see if the highway timing corrections and knocks still occur.

[luke1990]

Please have a look at this log. This is highway run on custom map. I dont think timing here for cruise at 130kph is too much - you can see the massive amount of timing corrections in the middle and knocks.

Also - please note, I'm not trying to bash my tuner, he has been very helpful throught. I'm just looking for opinions and maybe experiences that people may have had with this before

THANKS all for replying!

[weehe126]

Originally Posted by luke1990

I now answered in post above. I understand I need proper map - I have it. The reason car was ran on stock map was to see if the highway timing corrections and knocks still occur.

Timing drops while cruising is normal. You should just be worried about drops on WOT pulls.

[luke1990]

Originally Posted by weehe126

Timing drops while cruising is normal. You should just be worried about drops on WOT pulls.

While I agree that its WOT where it counts, I would say timing corrections are less of an issue on part throttle, but not like this - did you look at the log (this one)? Its a timing correction galore with 25+knocks in matter of few mins. That is not normal. I ran the same map a while back and it was completely clean. Same fuel, same stretch of road - few degrees less

See here comparison when it was running fine