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      05-17-2021, 12:36 AM   #1
tpoddar
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B48B20A (20i Variant only) Tuning Discussion

Hey guys,
There have been countless reports of issues with the 20i variant of the B48 engine when tuned. Some blame low down torque, some blame the tune, engine oil/maintenance and others the fuel. I will sum up what my personal experience has been and what I've read so far -

Personal Experience
I have been running the 91octane (95 RON) OTS bm3 map for a year now and have 10000 miles (15000kms) without any issues. This is with frequent datalogging to ensure no knocks and using strictly 99RON fuel. Oil changes every 7000kms and using LL-04 5W30.

What My Research has Shown So far
MgFlasher - Torque and HP numbers claimed are higher than bootmod3 but I've not read of any issues with this tune being used so far. Logs that I have seen target around a little less boost than bm3 but a lot more timing with much richer AFRs in the 2-5k rpm range.

Bootmod3 - A couple of blown engines have been reported, almost all in Egypt and other regions known for poor fuel quality. Lack of data logs to investigate the issue. (PS - Please share any logs you have)

There are many others running stage 1 and stage 2 OTS maps without any issues too so there is too little information to conclude anything.

Custom Tunes - One report of a blown engine in Germany on 102RON fuel and a reputed custom tune.

Navardi Tuned (A B48 Expert) - He had mentioned that lean AFRs can cause premature piston wear but Halim from bm3 claimed that AFRs in the OTS map were rich enough not to cause issues.

Please share your logs/experiences with this particular engine so that the community can decide what tuning strategy if any is safe for this particular engine.
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      05-17-2021, 07:01 AM   #2
Laurentfy
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Hi, mine B48 20i is NAVARDI TUNED and no issues. I think that lean AFR (14) can damage piston.
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      05-17-2021, 12:47 PM   #3
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MG flasher stage2 ACN91: due to high timing corrections and some knock detections (bad 95 ron maybe) support gave me a custom ACN91 stage 2 calibration.
As soon as possible I'll record new datalogs with this new map.
These are 5 old datalogs with stage 2 95 RON:

https://logs.mgflasher.com/log/b6b65...f-ce803f2b459b
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      05-17-2021, 06:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddie_Rome View Post
MG flasher stage2 ACN91: due to high timing corrections and some knock detections (bad 95 ron maybe) support gave me a custom ACN91 stage 2 calibration.
As soon as possible I'll record new datalogs with this new map.
These are 5 old datalogs with stage 2 95 RON:

https://logs.mgflasher.com/log/b6b65...f-ce803f2b459b
I'll be interested in this. I'm also running stage 2 95ron MG Flasher, and I'm having similar timing corrections with some knock. Similar to your experience. It was worse. That was until I change the plugs.
They've done what seems like a lot of map development with the B58. Not so much for the B48. They've been good to deal with in fairness. But this might need to be set higherin their priority list is other people are seeing similar timing corrections and knocking.

Last edited by jcdub; 05-18-2021 at 04:26 PM..
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      05-17-2021, 10:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdub View Post
They've done what seems like a lot of map development with the B58. Not so many for the B48. They've been good to deal with in fairness.
This is true for bootmod3 too. I guess since the B58 and other bigger engines are more popular in the US they get the majority of attention. I for instance was wondering if it's possible to get richer AFRs with the same map considering all other tuners except for bm3 target rich AFRs when WOT. Halim says that the B48 targets 14.7 throughout the rev range but considering that we're running double the stock boost pressure, I don't see it as an appropriate answer.
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      05-17-2021, 10:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpoddar View Post
This is true for bootmod3 too. I guess since the B58 and other bigger engines are more popular in the US they get the majority of attention. I for instance was wondering if it's possible to get richer AFRs with the same map considering all other tuners except for bm3 target rich AFRs when WOT. Halim says that the B48 targets 14.7 throughout the rev range but considering that we're running double the stock boost pressure, I don't see it as an appropriate answer.
i think BM3 has release the CHN91 version, which has more AFR?
at least it showed in my ots list of B48 tune.

i'm stage 2 BM3 on B48, 91oct tune on 93oct fuel, no problem so far after 15k km.

previously, stage 2 BM3 on N20, piston cracked after hundred of kilometers.
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      05-18-2021, 12:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luverse View Post
i think BM3 has release the CHN91 version, which has more AFR?
at least it showed in my ots list of B48 tune.

i'm stage 2 BM3 on B48, 91oct tune on 93oct fuel, no problem so far after 15k km.

previously, stage 2 BM3 on N20, piston cracked after hundred of kilometers.
I have seen logs of the CHN91 map. AFRs stay at 14.7 till about 5k rpm then starts going rich. Issue is in the 2k-5k rpm range. Why would PTF simply run richer AFRs if it's safer for the engine when WOT across the entire rpm range?
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      05-18-2021, 01:32 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpoddar View Post
I have seen logs of the CHN91 map. AFRs stay at 14.7 till about 5k rpm then starts going rich. Issue is in the 2k-5k rpm range. Why would PTF simply run richer AFRs if it's safer for the engine when WOT across the entire rpm range?
oh that's explain it, since most of the problem is caused on low-mid rpm
what's the safe AFR for 2-5k rpm?

my car have tried the drag strip once, but no issue so far
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      05-18-2021, 02:41 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luverse View Post
oh that's explain it, since most of the problem is caused on low-mid rpm
what's the safe AFR for 2-5k rpm?

my car have tried the drag strip once, but no issue so far
NAVARDI TUNED custom BM3 map AFR= 12
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      05-18-2021, 03:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luverse View Post
oh that's explain it, since most of the problem is caused on low-mid rpm
what's the safe AFR for 2-5k rpm?

my car have tried the drag strip once, but no issue so far
The current Bootmod3 tune won't cause issues suddenly. It's about the lean AFRs causing premature wear on the pistons which will cause issues in the long run. This is why people have issues when they've ran 20-30k miles sometimes, even with clean logs. To prevent any long term premature wear, it's better to run rich. Exact AFRs would need to be decided by PTF.
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      05-18-2021, 05:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpoddar View Post
The current Bootmod3 tune won't cause issues suddenly. It's about the lean AFRs causing premature wear on the pistons which will cause issues in the long run. This is why people have issues when they've ran 20-30k miles sometimes, even with clean logs. To prevent any long term premature wear, it's better to run rich. Exact AFRs would need to be decided by PTF.
then PTF should really consider to increase the AFR for the whole rpm range. to prevent another damage engine.

btw, how do we check what type of our engine?
checked to realoem, just stated B48
asked BMW, they said the engine is the same spec with 330i, because same part number for both
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      05-18-2021, 06:06 AM   #12
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If you're on 330i, you have the B48-F-L. Engine Number - B48B20B. That engine doesn't have issues.
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      05-18-2021, 12:35 PM   #13
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So, does MG Flasher set calibration with a good AFR? The datalog doesn't show it...
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      05-18-2021, 12:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddie_Rome View Post
So, does MG Flasher set calibration with a good AFR? The datalog doesn't show it...
Yu can toggle lambda in your datalogs to see how rich/lean the car is running. I viewed the logs you posted earlier and the AFRs seemed to be safe.
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      05-18-2021, 04:44 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=Freddie_Rome;27598421]MG flasher stage2 ACN91: due to high timing corrections and some knock detections (bad 95 ron maybe) support gave me a custom ACN91 stage 2 calibration.
As soon as possible I'll record new datalogs with this new map.
These are 5 old datalogs with stage 2 95 RON:


Your mg map version is 1.8. My map version is 1.2. I've a 330e.

Last edited by jcdub; 05-19-2021 at 07:55 AM..
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      05-18-2021, 09:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpoddar View Post
If you're on 330i, you have the B48-F-L. Engine Number - B48B20B. That engine doesn't have issues.
I think i got B48B20A, since on BM3 page stated B48-F-H?
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      05-18-2021, 09:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdub View Post
Your mg map version is 1.8. My map version is 1.2. I've a 330e.
Here's my log. AFR seems to be low
https://logs.mgflasher.com/log/34684...zVdfQ==&wide=1
AFRs seem good. There are a couple of knocks though which is concerning.

I have also come across Project A's custom stage 2 AFR and dyno readings which seem to be similar to bm3's and that too when pushing 1.5 bar of boost compared to 1.35 bar on bm3 Stage 1. I guess we need an expert tuner's opinion on this one or just trust Halim from bm3. I certainly know that he is a great tuner but the B48 does receive a lot less attention than other platforms. Link to project A's post here - https://www.facebook.com/dasprojecta...69486699755431
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      05-19-2021, 12:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luverse View Post
I think i got B48B20A, since on BM3 page stated B48-F-H?
Did you get your ECU remapped from somewhere before using bm3? If you have a 330i, there's no way you have a B48B20A. You can check on bimmercat using your VIN.

It's extremely strange that you're running a B48-F-H map on a 330i. Your tune may not be running right with this setup. I would check the vin first and then contact PTF accordingly.
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      05-19-2021, 05:34 AM   #19
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[QUOTE=Freddie_Rome;27598421]MG flasher stage2 ACN91: due to high timing corrections and some knock detections (bad 95 ron maybe) support gave me a custom ACN91 stage 2 calibration.
As soon as possible I'll record new datalogs with this new map.
These are 5 old datalogs with stage 2 95 RON:


Any sign of the logs for the custom map?

Last edited by jcdub; 05-19-2021 at 07:53 AM..
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      05-19-2021, 05:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdub View Post
Any sign of the logs for the custom map?
As soon as I have the chance I'll do it. I don't have straight and free roads nearby... lol
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      05-19-2021, 06:43 AM   #21
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It seems that Mgflasher is extremely similar to Bootmod3 in terms of power and not much more powerful as earlier expected. It's all about the fuel I guess, most Mgflasher logs that I had seen before were from Russia (great fuel) and showed timing advance of upto 15 degrees with 19-20psi boost up top. Those cars were producing a lot of power but it seems that the 95RON maps are severely knock limited.
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      05-19-2021, 03:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpoddar View Post
It seems that Mgflasher is extremely similar to Bootmod3 in terms of power and not much more powerful as earlier expected. It's all about the fuel I guess, most Mgflasher logs that I had seen before were from Russia (great fuel) and showed timing advance of upto 15 degrees with 19-20psi boost up top. Those cars were producing a lot of power but it seems that the 95RON maps are severely knock limited.
Here in Italy, fuel quality isn't very good and the price is high. 95 RON: 1,55 Euro/LT, 100 RON is almost 1,75 Euro/LT. Many MG Flasher users come from Russia and I think they were beta tester also.
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