[kevinb21]

I know everyone has been upgrading their f30 non m sport cars with the bigger 335i 4 piston brembo brakes but that costs at least 700$. I have an e92 335i and I've recently noticed just how much better the e92 335i brakes then the f30 328i. Only difference being e92 335i brake calipers are 50$ each instead the f30 335i being 300 each. Given the f30 calipers are a bolt on to the e90 I was wondering, can I just put a set of e92 335i brakes on my f30 328i for much better brake performance and a noticeable increase in size?

[Logicoeur]

Your e92 is not as heavy as the f30. Look at the size of the rotors and you will see why it feels better. Don't do it. Check the forums here,eBay and scrapper websites. The f30 6cyl calipers can be had for way cheaper than that. Even 200 a pair.

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by kevinb21

I know everyone has been upgrading their f30 non m sport cars with the bigger 335i 4 piston brembo brakes but that costs at least 700$. I have an e92 335i and I've recently noticed just how much better the e92 335i brakes then the f30 328i. Only difference being e92 335i brake calipers are 50$ each instead the f30 335i being 300 each. Given the f30 calipers are a bolt on to the e90 I was wondering, can I just put a set of e92 335i brakes on my f30 328i for much better brake performance and a noticeable increase in size?

You can do that. Just gotta get the right rotor.

The car you drove for comparison probably doesn't brake much better because of the caliper. It probably has different/newer fluid and stiffer pads with more bite.

[Beatrice]

What do you want to accomplish with "bigger" brakes? I did a LOT of research into brakes when I started track days a few years ago with my STi and what I discovered was that unless you're actually racing, the best mods are fluid and pads.

I cooked the fluid in my STi on my first track day because I was stupid; original fill on a car with about 50,000 miles. Since then I always use Motul RBF600 in my wife's STi (still using Pentosin LV DOT 4 on the BWM Wagon) because it really doesn't cost much more so why not? If I have less than half the life in the fluid (20k miles) before a track day, I change it.

The biggest change is the pads; I swear by Hawk HPS pads. They are good for the high temps of a track day (at an amateur driver level) and they don't squeal or cause terrifying no-brake moments on cold stops. You can get much more aggressive with pads if you're going to change them at the track.

I've found that cross-drilled and slotted rotors are mostly for show. Good vented rotors are just fine for those of us not putting on fire suits before climbing in.

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by Beatrice

What do you want to accomplish with "bigger" brakes? I did a LOT of research into brakes when I started track days a few years ago with my STi and what I discovered was that unless you're actually racing, the best mods are fluid and pads.

I cooked the fluid in my STi on my first track day because I was stupid; original fill on a car with about 50,000 miles. Since then I always use Motul RBF600 in my wife's STi (still using Pentosin LV DOT 4 on the BWM Wagon) because it really doesn't cost much more so why not? If I have less than half the life in the fluid (20k miles) before a track day, I change it.

The biggest change is the pads; I swear by Hawk HPS pads. They are good for the high temps of a track day (at an amateur driver level) and they don't squeal or cause terrifying no-brake moments on cold stops. You can get much more aggressive with pads if you're going to change them at the track.

I've found that cross-drilled and slotted rotors are mostly for show. Good vented rotors are just fine for those of us not putting on fire suits before climbing in.

Yeah pads and fluid are great and can get you pretty far but the larger brakes just give you a little more headroom on the track. 128i brakes are really undersized for track use.

[gameson]

Do you recommend changing brake lines to ss braided? Or stock is ok? Just change fluid and pad? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Beatrice

What do you want to accomplish with "bigger" brakes? I did a LOT of research into brakes when I started track days a few years ago with my STi and what I discovered was that unless you're actually racing, the best mods are fluid and pads.

I cooked the fluid in my STi on my first track day because I was stupid; original fill on a car with about 50,000 miles. Since then I always use Motul RBF600 in my wife's STi (still using Pentosin LV DOT 4 on the BWM Wagon) because it really doesn't cost much more so why not? If I have less than half the life in the fluid (20k miles) before a track day, I change it.

The biggest change is the pads; I swear by Hawk HPS pads. They are good for the high temps of a track day (at an amateur driver level) and they don't squeal or cause terrifying no-brake moments on cold stops. You can get much more aggressive with pads if you're going to change them at the track.

I've found that cross-drilled and slotted rotors are mostly for show. Good vented rotors are just fine for those of us not putting on fire suits before climbing in.

[kevinb21]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Your e92 is not as heavy as the f30. Look at the size of the rotors and you will see why it feels better. Don't do it. Check the forums here,eBay and scrapper websites. The f30 6cyl calipers can be had for way cheaper than that. Even 200 a pair.

I agree that the f30 6cl calipers are better although it does not make sense how the e92 calipers and rotors wouldn't be a vast upgrade, the e92 rotors are way bigger, and have way bigger pads too... more surface area = greater braking force, what exactly am I missing here? as a matter of fact the e92 has larger rotors then the f30 335i base, the only benefit the f30 has is 4 piston calipers for a firmer feel.

[Itogliano]

Originally Posted by kevinb21

I agree that the f30 6cl calipers are better although it does not make sense how the e92 calipers and rotors wouldn't be a vast upgrade, the e92 rotors are way bigger, and have way bigger pads too... more surface area = greater braking force, what exactly am I missing here? as a matter of fact the e92 has larger rotors then the f30 335i base, the only benefit the f30 has is 4 piston calipers for a firmer feel.

Greater braking force is not the benefit of an increased pad/rotor swept area. The smallest single piston sliding calipers with any pad/rotor combination will be able to fully lock up the wheels on the car.

The real benefit to moving to larger...everything when it comes to brakes is for greater heat capacity, distribution, and cooling. This is important when you are repeatedly hard on the brakes, like in the case of track driving or (to a lesser extent) canyon carving, but does not give you "greater" stopping power, per se.

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by kevinb21

I agree that the f30 6cl calipers are better although it does not make sense how the e92 calipers and rotors wouldn't be a vast upgrade, the e92 rotors are way bigger, and have way bigger pads too... more surface area = greater braking force, what exactly am I missing here? as a matter of fact the e92 has larger rotors then the f30 335i base, the only benefit the f30 has is 4 piston calipers for a firmer feel.

Larger than 340mm??

Edit looked it up.

340mm+4piston caliper >>>>>>>> 348mm+1 piston sliding caliper.

Not only on the braking performance side, but also the work needed to upgrade to either for your car in particular. The F30 stuff is bolt on.

[kevinb21]

Originally Posted by Beatrice

What do you want to accomplish with "bigger" brakes? I did a LOT of research into brakes when I started track days a few years ago with my STi and what I discovered was that unless you're actually racing, the best mods are fluid and pads.

I cooked the fluid in my STi on my first track day because I was stupid; original fill on a car with about 50,000 miles. Since then I always use Motul RBF600 in my wife's STi (still using Pentosin LV DOT 4 on the BWM Wagon) because it really doesn't cost much more so why not? If I have less than half the life in the fluid (20k miles) before a track day, I change it.

The biggest change is the pads; I swear by Hawk HPS pads. They are good for the high temps of a track day (at an amateur driver level) and they don't squeal or cause terrifying no-brake moments on cold stops. You can get much more aggressive with pads if you're going to change them at the track.

I've found that cross-drilled and slotted rotors are mostly for show. Good vented rotors are just fine for those of us not putting on fire suits before climbing in.

My goal is simply the car's ability to stop. My porsche boxster has brembo brakes all around and with a slight touch of the brakes the car comes right to a stop. and while not as good my e92 335i comes to a stop with farrr less brake force then my f30 328i. My 328i feels like the brakes are crap becuase I have to press the pedal so much to actually get the car to stop. but if i slam on them the car does a great job of stopping. but in the end my other cars have much more confidence inspiring brakes and thats my goal. and all of them have brand new quality brake pads. acutally come to think of it the 328i had its brakes done most recently

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by kevinb21

My goal is simply the car's ability to stop. My porsche boxster has brembo brakes all around and with a slight touch of the brakes the car comes right to a stop. and while not as good my e92 335i comes to a stop with farrr less brake force then my f30 328i. My 328i feels like the brakes are crap becuase I have to press the pedal so much to actually get the car to stop. but if i slam on them the car does a great job of stopping. but in the end my other cars have much more confidence inspiring brakes and thats my goal. and all of them have brand new quality brake pads. acutally come to think of it the 328i had its brakes done most recently

You just want a high bite pad.

Larger brakes are actually going to make your pedal travel greater. You also will need to change the master cylinder to one with a larger takeup cylinder to make up for that.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by kevinb21

My goal is simply the car's ability to stop. My porsche boxster has brembo brakes all around and with a slight touch of the brakes the car comes right to a stop. and while not as good my e92 335i comes to a stop with farrr less brake force then my f30 328i. My 328i feels like the brakes are crap becuase I have to press the pedal so much to actually get the car to stop. but if i slam on them the car does a great job of stopping. but in the end my other cars have much more confidence inspiring brakes and thats my goal. and all of them have brand new quality brake pads. acutally come to think of it the 328i had its brakes done most recently

Your 328i probably has the smallest F30 combination of brakes which is Front 312mm x 24mm and Rear 300x20, both single piston calipers.

The next combination up that will make a very noticeable difference are the stock calipers from the F30/F32 335i/435i which are Front 4-piston Brembo over 340x30 rotors and Rear single piston Bosch over 330x20 rotors. Cost used is about $500-$600 for calipers plus rotors and pads. (See below for recommendations on those)

You can get an improvement in your brakes with the stock calipers by:

1) upgrading to Hawk 5.0 pads which have great bite for street

2) upgrading at least the front rotors to full crossdrilled. They provide best bite and are best in rain. There's a reason that BMW puts them on M3/M4. I believe FCP Euro sells the front Zimmermann crossdrilled rotors. StopTech crossdrilled are an upgrade to Zimmermann because they have directional vanes for optimal cooling. Avoid slotted or dimpled- they are less effective and noisy.

3) upgrade rubber brake hoses to stainless steel brake lines for a more solid pedal feel. A full set of StopTech SS lines are about $110.

4) replace brake fluid every two years.

[Tobz_au]

Ok a few clarifications to all the above

All the F30 cars share the same master cylinder from what I can tell https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-2...uine-bmw-part/

Stainless lines will not provide a better brake feel, while that was true back in the day, modern rubber brake lines don't expand all that much. All the ss lines do is provide better protection from foreign object damage.

The whole crissdrilled vs slotted vs dimpled is a massive debate, I will not enter this one

Things that make the biggest difference is good quality brake fluid, bleed the brakes often. Also pads you want a good quality pad with high bite from cold, something like a DS2500 Ferodo.

Finally tyres, better tyres equals better feeling brakes

And yes swapping from a sliding caliper to a monoblock will increase pedal feel

Bigger brakes in most cases will not provide more braking, it will just let you do multiple big stops without overheating.

[kevinb21]

Originally Posted by Tobz_au

Ok a few clarifications to all the above

All the F30 cars share the same master cylinder from what I can tell https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-2...uine-bmw-part/

Stainless lines will not provide a better brake feel, while that was true back in the day, modern rubber brake lines don't expand all that much. All the ss lines do is provide better protection from foreign object damage.

The whole crissdrilled vs slotted vs dimpled is a massive debate, I will not enter this one

Things that make the biggest difference is good quality brake fluid, bleed the brakes often. Also pads you want a good quality pad with high bite from cold, something like a DS2500 Ferodo.

Finally tyres, better tyres equals better feeling brakes

And yes swapping from a sliding caliper to a monoblock will increase pedal feel

Bigger brakes in most cases will not provide more braking, it will just let you do multiple big stops without overheating.

But this goes back to my original question. Yes I can get 4 piston brembo f30 calipers for 500$, add in rotors and pads and we are at 800$. the e92 335i has 348mm front rotors and while single piston, BIG single piston calipers. While the 4 piston brembo is ideal, the 335i brake calipers should be a pretty monumental upgrade considering even the f10 535i and 550i have big single piston brakes and those are for the higher power engines too. e92 front calipers with hawk 5.0 pads should give me 85% of what the 4 pistons will give for 1/4th the price

[Tobz_au]

Originally Posted by kevinb21

But this goes back to my original question. Yes I can get 4 piston brembo f30 calipers for 500$, add in rotors and pads and we are at 800$. the e92 335i has 348mm front rotors and while single piston, BIG single piston calipers. While the 4 piston brembo is ideal, the 335i brake calipers should be a pretty monumental upgrade considering even the f10 535i and 550i have big single piston brakes and those are for the higher power engines too. e92 front calipers with hawk 5.0 pads should give me 85% of what the 4 pistons will give for 1/4th the price

I think what im trying to say is save even more money, just try pads and fluid. you will probably find that will get you what you are after for the street

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by Tobz_au

I think what im trying to say is save even more money, just try pads and fluid. you will probably find that will get you what you are after for the street

Agreed. I think he'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Beatrice]

Sorry, I didn't turn on notifications so I missed your question.

I don't recommend SS lines first because there isn't a lot of flex in modern brake lines. They look cool and might give you a little more pedal stiffness when you're really standing on the brakes but I think if you want to improve braking performance you should leave everything stock and start with brake pads and fresh fluid. That way you know what the pads have done for you and if you want to start upgrading from there, go for it.

Somebody else posted the one benefit I know of from bigger brakes; better repeat performance. On a track you can't dissipate the heat from the last stop before you get to the next one (most of the time) so our stock brakes will start to fade faster than a bigger pad/rotor combo. But I've never been racing for prize money so I accept my limitations. Plus I haven't tracked my 328; it's my grocery getter.

These guys have a fantastic page with brake system knowledge: https://www.essexparts.com/support/learning-center--faq

Plus, Hawk has a good explainer on their pads (https://www.hawkperformance.com/compounds/motorsports) that will help you know what you're getting when you buy pads. A friend of mine nearly binned it when he was a young guy; he had his local shop put racing pads in and the first time he hit the brakes there was nothing there; racing pads are fantastic when hot but not for daily driving.

Another benefit of (some) monoblock calipers is that their pads are easy to change; both of my STi's came with monoblock calipers and changing the pads was a cinch. All you had to do was take the wheel off, pull two cotter pins, pull the guide pins out, and the pads came out the top. Great for switching to your track day pads at the track. Not all big brake systems work this way though.

I got a bit carried away, but it seems like you want better brake feel/performance in your daily drive. I think you can get a lot of that with better pads.