[movietub]

So, lets begin the debate!

I had an F31 330D, very happy with it. I then handed it back and for a while had a Golf GTD, but always knew I was going to end up with another BMW. This time a 4 series.

I naturally wanted a 435 as it would be a step up from before. But, then I drove one. The power band was indeed smoother and broader in addition to the extra raw grunt, as a result, no question it's faster. But it also felt softer and less thrilling. It also kind of annoyed me that it had (I think as standard) the synthesised engine noise. I was so shocked at this, I just don't see why probably the best sounding diesel engine in production should be masked when you buy the range topping model. These discoveries were in addition to the fact I don't really want AWD and I already knew it rode higher than the RWD 330D.

At the same time as I was battling my 35D vs 30D decision, a friend bought a tuning box for his 330D, and the change was dramatic to say the least - for the sake of £350 it now makes the same power as the 35D. At that point it became an obvious choice for me. So I did buy a 430D and as soon as winter is over, it will have the tuning box fitted.

I would be happy at this point.. But I'm wondering if there is something I missed about the 35D? To me it just felt soft and refined, in a way that doesn't mate well with anyone looking for a sporty drive and a smile on their face. I also don't understand why it has to ride higher than a RWD car? Are they really suggesting this sports saloon/coupe is raised to give it some sort of off road credentials!? I was left feeling that for the sake of a few hundred quid on the tuning box, I could buy a cheaper 30D and easily get the 35D power and not be stuck with a high riding AWD car that makes fake noises.

My only real regret is that I think the side by side exhausts look way better on the 35D's.

[HighlandPete]

You'll get more response/opinion if the topic is in the UK section of the forum.

All about choices isn't it.

I sense the move to xDrive only (335d/435d) was part of the current drive for high end models being AWD. The ride height issue is historic, xDrive markets have been all-weather biased. We were surprised (in the UK) to see high 'performance' and an all-weather setup.

This issue has changed with current models, like the G30/31 and the upcoming G20 models. xDrive can be spec'd with M-sport suspension at the lower ride height.

[movietub]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

You'll get more response/opinion if the topic is in the UK section of the forum.

All about choices isn't it.

I sense the move to xDrive only (335d/435d) was part of the current drive for high end models being AWD. The ride height issue is historic, xDrive markets have been all-weather biased. We were surprised (in the UK) to see high 'performance' and an all-weather setup.

This issue has changed with current models, like the G30/31 and the upcoming G20 models. xDrive can be spec'd with M-sport suspension at the lower ride height.

Doh - yes this should have been in the UK forum If a mod comes along, please move across if possible.

To your point, it's interesting as I didn't know the new models could be spec'd without 'moon buggy' ride height. Still leaves the issue of AWD only but I accept that's not really a bad thing, I have seen the videos of the G30 having no problem delivering RWD type shenanigans.

I suppose I was just interested as I had naturally assumed 330D = very good, 335D = even better. But in reality I think they are more equal yet different. The 30D maybe even slightly better overall as it's cheaper too.

[IAmATeaf]

Doesn’t it ride like 1cm higher?

[movietub]

Originally Posted by IAmATeaf

Doesn’t it ride like 1cm higher?

The old or new one? (G20)

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by movietub

I suppose I was just interested as I had naturally assumed 330D = very good, 335D = even better. But in reality I think they are more equal yet different. The 30D maybe even slightly better overall as it's cheaper too.

I suppose it depends on how we judge a car and chassis. Some of the extra performance of the 35d engine goes to overcome weight and extra drivetrain losses. The RWD 330d is rated by many as the 'sweet spot' in the 3/4 series range.

If BMW had continued the 35d engines in RWD form, then the straight forward performance advantage would be at a different level. Not so simple to quantify as the E9x models.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by IAmATeaf

Doesn’t it ride like 1cm higher?

xDrive models only ride 10mm higher than the M-sport suspensions, run the same height as the SE models. Many criticise the ride height as if it is some jacked up suspension.

[movietub]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

xDrive models only ride 10mm higher than the M-sport suspensions, run the same height as the SE models. Many criticise the ride height as if it is some jacked up suspension.

The problem is that a 1" jump in wheel size is effectively wiped out by the 10mm increase in ride height. So it's an already more expensive car, that rides higher than many wish that also needs 20"s to be bought back into good form. It's not a big deal at all but just another small issue with the 35d that doesn't exist with the 30d.

My base question is who does the 35d appeal to that isn't better served by the 30d, even if it needs a little performance tweaking. I'm far from convinced that for a typical BMW customer, the 35d is a better overall car.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by movietub

The problem is that a 1" jump in wheel size is effectively wiped out by the 10mm increase in ride height. So it's an already more expensive car, that rides higher than many wish that also needs 20"s to be bought back into good form.

How does wheel size change the ride height? OE tyre aspect ratio is changed to keep the RC (Rolling Circumference) the same. Any difference in looks with different wheel sizes is simply an optical illusion, wheel arch gap and ride height stay the same.

[movietub]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I suppose it depends on how we judge a car and chassis. Some of the extra performance of the 35d engine goes to overcome weight and extra drivetrain losses. The RWD 330d is rated by many as the 'sweet spot' in the 3/4 series range.

If BMW had continued the 35d engines in RWD form, then the straight forward performance advantage would be at a different level. Not so simple to quantify as the E9x models.

Yeah I agree, it's apples and oranges trying to compare the two.

All I can report on is my back to back experience and the 335d just felt soft, as if I needed to age another couple of decades before driving the thing.

The biggest bugbear was the fake engine sound though. I just can't understand why the makers of the best sounding diesel would try and mask it!? I could never feel proud about owning a car that fakes something. Regardless of fuel type it's a straight six, the cylinders sound good.. just let us have them.

[movietub]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

How does wheel size change the ride height? OE tyre aspect ratio is changed to keep the RC (Rolling Circumference) the same. Any difference in looks with different wheel sizes is simply an optical illusion, wheel arch gap and ride height stay the same.

That's why I said wheel size (tyre + rim) instead of tyre.

People clearly do fit larger tyres and rims to fill out the wheel arch better. My point is that the extra starting height of the AWD models makes that tougher. Not to mention I never heard anyone ever say they were glad to have the extra ride height.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by movietub

That's why I said wheel size (tyre + rim) instead of tyre.

People clearly do fit larger tyres and rims to fill out the wheel arch better. My point is that the extra starting height of the AWD models makes that tougher. Not to mention I never heard anyone ever say they were glad to have the extra ride height.

Ah, you are not referring to OE combinations...

As to ride height, some delete M-sport to get softer and higher riding suspensions. Up here with single track roads, higher ride height helps to prevent bottoming. My 535i M-sport runs the higher ride height, pleased the higher setting came with adaptive suspension, helps cope with local roads.

A bit of history to xDrive, in the saloons and tourings. One of the Scottish dealers were working on BMW for years, to get them into the UK. Customers were wanting All Weather capability, some not wanting SUVs, or having to go to the competition to get AWD. Don't think many of the Highland drivers will be worried about ride height being 10mm different.

Probably some of them will be used to specifying rough road packages as optioned by some manufacturers, which increase the ride height above normal settings. My daughter in law had a VW Golf spec'd with the rough road package, to negotiate an unmade lane.

[movietub]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Ah, you are not referring to OE combinations...

As to ride height, some delete M-sport to get softer and higher riding suspensions. Up here with single track roads, higher ride height helps to prevent bottoming. My 535i M-sport runs the higher ride height, pleased the higher setting came with adaptive suspension, helps cope with local roads.

A bit of history to xDrive, in the saloons and tourings. One of the Scottish dealers were working on BMW for years, to get them into the UK. Customers were wanting All Weather capability, some not wanting SUVs, or having to go to the competition to get AWD. Don't think many of the Highland drivers will be worried about ride height being 10mm different.

Probably some of them will be used to specifying rough road packages as optioned by some manufacturers, which increase the ride height above normal settings. My daughter in law had a VW Golf spec'd with the rough road package, to negotiate an unmade lane.

That's genuinely interesting and goes at least some way towards my un-asked question - I always wonder why BMW felt that we needed AWD only, along with increased ride height!

But it also begs another question... BMW have for so many decades made family cars that drive better overall than any other family car. That's why we choose them. If we were interested only in performance, we would all be driving around in ariel atoms and caterhams. So BMW fit a very common need for the average family person to have a usable car that also has the ability to make them smile on demand. My question then is... If you do happen to live up a difficult and bumpy road, surrounded by other single track roads, why would you choose a BMW in the first place? At what point will you get to enjoy the benefits as opposed to the continual benefits of, say, a Discovery or Evoque for the same sort of money?

NB: I almost hit 'submit' but I wanted to add that I have spent time in the highlands and you do have the finest driving roads in the UK. Also, no bugger is on them let alone the police, so feel free to have some fun! But on a day to day basis, I also know that the roads between the places people live and the 'big roads' are not exactly great - hence my question about the suitability/appeal of a BMW in the first place

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by movietub

My question then is... If you do happen to live up a difficult and bumpy road, surrounded by other single track roads, why would you choose a BMW in the first place? At what point will you get to enjoy the benefits as opposed to the continual benefits of, say, a Discovery or Evoque for the same sort of money?

NB: I almost hit 'submit' but I wanted to add that I have spent time in the highlands and you do have the finest driving roads in the UK. Also, no bugger is on them let alone the police, so feel free to have some fun! But on a day to day basis, I also know that the roads between the places people live and the 'big roads' are not exactly great - hence my question about the suitability/appeal of a BMW in the first place

I've been around BMW since the 1970's, I simply like the way they perform and drive. Own one, even though it is not as convenient to look after as some other marques. My preferred dealer is 90 miles away in Perth.

Personally I don't like SUVs as a preferred drive. I've tried the X3 and X5, (friend has had the Land Rover offerings), do not desire to own and drive one. My son has run X3's which certainly have their place on our roads, but he's back in a performance hatch as it suits him better.

For me, RWD saloons or tourings are the preferred transport. A good (supple) suspension and sensible wheels (17" wheels on a 5-series for winter use) are compromises necessary to make it work. I used to drive to Wiltshire up to 10 times a year, (1,000 mile trips), not so often these days, cars suit the trips better.

I notice locally many more are driving SUVs and Crossovers as time moves on, even those who like me, have preferred saloons and estate cars.

Next vehicle may be different, not sure which direction I'll be looking, could be xDrive.

[movietub]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I've been around BMW since the 1970's, I simply like the way they perform and drive. Own one, even though it is not as convenient to look after as some other marques. My preferred dealer is 90 miles away in Perth.

Personally I don't like SUVs as a preferred drive. I've tried the X3 and X5, (friend has had the Land Rover offerings), do not desire to own and drive one. My son has run X3's which certainly have their place on our roads, but he's back in a performance hatch as it suits him better.

For me, RWD saloons or tourings are the preferred transport. A good (supple) suspension and sensible wheels (17" wheels on a 5-series for winter use) are compromises necessary to make it work. I used to drive to Wiltshire up to 10 times a year, (1,000 mile trips), not so often these days, cars suit the trips better.

I notice locally many more are driving SUVs and Crossovers as time moves on, even those who like me, have preferred saloons and estate cars.

Next vehicle may be different, not sure which direction I'll be looking, could be xDrive.

As a second car we keep looking at an evoque as a possibility. Also nearly pounced on a cheap Jag i-pace lease deal but the lack of charge points near me would make it a hassle. I do see the appeal of an SUV, I get why they're so popular even if a lot of the reasons don't really stack up logically...

The world just went SUV mad. I always enjoy my cars genuinely sporty It could only ever be a second car for us, for the daily drive I'd rather sit low in something that handles properly

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by movietub

As a second car we keep looking at an evoque as a possibility. Also nearly pounced on a cheap Jag i-pace lease deal but the lack of charge points near me would make it a hassle.

A hassle or completely pointless if you can never "fill it up"?

In Scotland there about 1,200 charging points for a population of about 5.5 million. EVs as a way of life are generations away, possibly more given the size of the country relative to its population - it's over 80 times less dense than the south-east of England.

[movietub]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

A hassle or completely pointless if you can never "fill it up"?

In Scotland there about 1,200 charging points for a population of about 5.5 million. EVs as a way of life are generations away, possibly more given the size of the country relative to its population - it's over 80 times less dense than the south-east of England.

Oh we have electricity in our houses down here, so I could fill it up overnight at least

Yes in Scotland you would have to be fairly insane, or only ever go fairly short distances. Until battery technology improves drastically, such cars can only really work in higher density populations. If you're on a motorway the car might say it has 60 miles range and you live 40 miles away, but then if traffic gets heavy and there is a lot of stop/start driving as a result, that range will plummet. So you really do need to know that there are frequent charge points if your route gets anywhere close to the range you have in the battery