3rd & 6th gear torque limits on the 8HP45 - Elephant in the room?

MTWO · 10-03-2018, 01:19 PM

Its the target that drops when they had the issue. Your actual boost actually goes somewhat over target, did you look at your log? I honeslty don’t think I see the issue we talk about here in your run.

badbread · 10-03-2018, 01:45 PM

Isn't this nice, the BM3 guys and the MHD guys getting along with no BS.

XxThe_RemedyXx · 10-03-2018, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbread

Isn't this nice, the BM3 guys and the MHD guys getting along with no BS.

Munchi435i · 10-03-2018, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbread

Isn't this nice, the BM3 guys and the MHD guys getting along with no BS.

chadb21 · 10-11-2018, 01:06 PM

I feel zero difference with the mhd 3rd and 6th limit fix. It's still obviously lacking torque in both gears compared to even 5th and 7th.

badbread · 10-11-2018, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadb21

I feel zero difference with the mhd 3rd and 6th limit fix. It's still obviously lacking torque in both gears compared to even 5th and 7th.

Have you verified the torque limit isn't in your logs anymore? Something isn't right, the difference is night and day.

Eschmacher · 10-11-2018, 06:00 PM

So xhp just posted a short essay on their facebook page regarding ecu tuners fooling the transmission to get around the torque limits... Thought I would post the relevant bits here:

"The common workaround for tunes to operate properly and not hit torque limits, is to "bend" the torque calculation in the ECU, so it well never calculate a value above the transmissions stock limits. Problem solved? Well, not really. Given what's said above, the trans will now operate with wrong clutch pressures. The torque calculation is calibrated to match real world torque very closely. If you alter this calculation, you create an offset between calculated and real world torque, which directly triggers the transmission to operate with too low line pressure."

"Short term you may feel that shifting is sometimes a bit off, delayed or not as crisp as it should be. Long term this will lead to extended clutch wear as there is more slip on every shift and even in gear. (Microslip) Adapting the torque limits and using a tune with proper torque calculation will avoid all that AND will increase holding power of your transmission dramatically!

Especially important for people with upgraded Turbos, which are pushing the limits of their platform. The ZF transmissions are incredibly well built and can last forever, even when operated well above stock torque, as long as they are adjusted properly.

For our upcoming 8HP solution, people will be able to chose between a standard map, which keeps 90% stock behaviour but has the torque nannys adjusted, or go for the full solution with a lot of features added.

Stay tuned for more info the next weeks!"

XxThe_RemedyXx · 10-11-2018, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eschmacher

So xhp just posted a short essay on their facebook page regarding ecu tuners fooling the transmission to get around the torque limits... Thought I would post the relevant bits here:

"The common workaround for tunes to operate properly and not hit torque limits, is to "bend" the torque calculation in the ECU, so it well never calculate a value above the transmissions stock limits. Problem solved? Well, not really. Given what's said above, the trans will now operate with wrong clutch pressures. The torque calculation is calibrated to match real world torque very closely. If you alter this calculation, you create an offset between calculated and real world torque, which directly triggers the transmission to operate with too low line pressure."

"Short term you may feel that shifting is sometimes a bit off, delayed or not as crisp as it should be. Long term this will lead to extended clutch wear as there is more slip on every shift and even in gear. (Microslip) Adapting the torque limits and using a tune with proper torque calculation will avoid all that AND will increase holding power of your transmission dramatically!

Especially important for people with upgraded Turbos, which are pushing the limits of their platform. The ZF transmissions are incredibly well built and can last forever, even when operated well above stock torque, as long as they are adjusted properly.

For our upcoming 8HP solution, people will be able to chose between a standard map, which keeps 90% stock behaviour but has the torque nannys adjusted, or go for the full solution with a lot of features added.

Stay tuned for more info the next weeks!"

Damn I can't wait for this!

cxp213 · 10-12-2018, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eschmacher

So xhp just posted a short essay on their facebook page regarding ecu tuners fooling the transmission to get around the torque limits... Thought I would post the relevant bits here:

"The common workaround for tunes to operate properly and not hit torque limits, is to "bend" the torque calculation in the ECU, so it well never calculate a value above the transmissions stock limits. Problem solved? Well, not really. Given what's said above, the trans will now operate with wrong clutch pressures. The torque calculation is calibrated to match real world torque very closely. If you alter this calculation, you create an offset between calculated and real world torque, which directly triggers the transmission to operate with too low line pressure."

"Short term you may feel that shifting is sometimes a bit off, delayed or not as crisp as it should be. Long term this will lead to extended clutch wear as there is more slip on every shift and even in gear. (Microslip) Adapting the torque limits and using a tune with proper torque calculation will avoid all that AND will increase holding power of your transmission dramatically!

Especially important for people with upgraded Turbos, which are pushing the limits of their platform. The ZF transmissions are incredibly well built and can last forever, even when operated well above stock torque, as long as they are adjusted properly.

For our upcoming 8HP solution, people will be able to chose between a standard map, which keeps 90% stock behaviour but has the torque nannys adjusted, or go for the full solution with a lot of features added.

Stay tuned for more info the next weeks!"

Yeah, I saw that post and wondered how MHD was getting around this issue. Thought about asking MHD how their solution works with this in mind but figured they wouldn't tell me anyway so didn't bother.

Munchi435i · 10-12-2018, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cxp213

Yeah, I saw that post and wondered how MHD was getting around this issue. Thought about asking MHD how their solution works with this in mind but figured they wouldn't tell me anyway so didn't bother.

Always better to ask for clarification!

Mike. · 10-13-2018, 07:59 AM

I hope they set the shift points to right before the PWG turbo starts to tail off.

chadb21 · 10-13-2018, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbread

Have you verified the torque limit isn't in your logs anymore? Something isn't right, the difference is night and day.

Haven't yet but definitely will. It's just exactly the same as before so I know it's not producing more torque. Maybe I'll try reflashing.

Seba77W · 10-13-2018, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadb21

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbread

Have you verified the torque limit isn't in your logs anymore? Something isn't right, the difference is night and day.

Haven't yet but definitely will. It's just exactly the same as before so I know it's not producing more torque. Maybe I'll try reflashing.

Yea I agree the difference with the fix is unreal.

Mr.B_Germany · 12-25-2018, 01:03 PM

Back to Top. 8HP Tuning is Available

Done mine 2 Weeks ago. 335ix F31.

Eschmacher · 12-25-2018, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.B_Germany

Back to Top. 8HP Tuning is Available

Done mine 2 Weeks ago. 335ix F31.

How did you get yours so early? Their FB page says Jan 21st is the release date.

XxThe_RemedyXx · 12-25-2018, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eschmacher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.B_Germany

Back to Top. 8HP Tuning is Available

Done mine 2 Weeks ago. 335ix F31.

How did you get yours so early? Their FB page says Jan 21st is the release date.

I don't see it as being available either.

Mike. · 12-25-2018, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.B_Germany

Back to Top. 8HP Tuning is Available

Done mine 2 Weeks ago. 335ix F31.

???

doodlebro · 12-25-2018, 11:42 PM

He's in germany, might have been released there?

bradsm87 · 12-26-2018, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.B_Germany

Back to Top. 8HP Tuning is Available

Done mine 2 Weeks ago. 335ix F31.

What did you use to do it? XHP is not out yet and I've seen no mention of beta testing.

enemigo13 · 12-26-2018, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradsm87

What did you use to do it? XHP is not out yet and I've seen no mention of beta testing.

magic motorsport tool can do 8hp long time ago, CMD realeased 8hp protocol for a while also.

Mr.B_Germany · 12-26-2018, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradsm87

What did you use to do it? XHP is not out yet and I've seen no mention of beta testing.

We did it with CMD. But XHP is coming January.

Mr.B_Germany · 12-26-2018, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enemigo13

magic motorsport tool can do 8hp long time ago, CMD realeased 8hp protocol for a while also.

I Know but the Tool alone is the half way.

10-03-2018, 01:19 PM	#89
MTWO Captain 473 Rep 931 Posts Drives: M2 Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Innisfil iTrader: (0)	Its the target that drops when they had the issue. Your actual boost actually goes somewhat over target, did you look at your log? I honeslty don’t think I see the issue we talk about here in your run.
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10-03-2018, 01:45 PM	#90
badbread not good, but bad 333 Rep 361 Posts Drives: 2013 335i Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (3)	Isn't this nice, the BM3 guys and the MHD guys getting along with no BS. __________________ They are spelled BRAKES not breaks!!!! Oh FFS, not another spark plug thread! BreadsBMW on Youtube
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10-11-2018, 01:06 PM	#93
chadb21 New Member 9 Rep 16 Posts Drives: Gray F30 335 xdrive Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Bend, OR iTrader: (0)	I feel zero difference with the mhd 3rd and 6th limit fix. It's still obviously lacking torque in both gears compared to even 5th and 7th.
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10-11-2018, 06:00 PM	#95
Eschmacher Car Hypochondriac 335 Rep 901 Posts Drives: 2014 335i M-Sport Estoril Blue Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Sterling, VA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW 335i [0.00]	So xhp just posted a short essay on their facebook page regarding ecu tuners fooling the transmission to get around the torque limits... Thought I would post the relevant bits here: "The common workaround for tunes to operate properly and not hit torque limits, is to "bend" the torque calculation in the ECU, so it well never calculate a value above the transmissions stock limits. Problem solved? Well, not really. Given what's said above, the trans will now operate with wrong clutch pressures. The torque calculation is calibrated to match real world torque very closely. If you alter this calculation, you create an offset between calculated and real world torque, which directly triggers the transmission to operate with too low line pressure." "Short term you may feel that shifting is sometimes a bit off, delayed or not as crisp as it should be. Long term this will lead to extended clutch wear as there is more slip on every shift and even in gear. (Microslip) Adapting the torque limits and using a tune with proper torque calculation will avoid all that AND will increase holding power of your transmission dramatically! Especially important for people with upgraded Turbos, which are pushing the limits of their platform. The ZF transmissions are incredibly well built and can last forever, even when operated well above stock torque, as long as they are adjusted properly. For our upcoming 8HP solution, people will be able to chose between a standard map, which keeps 90% stock behaviour but has the torque nannys adjusted, or go for the full solution with a lot of features added. Stay tuned for more info the next weeks!"
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10-13-2018, 07:59 AM	#99
Mike. Mike: Everyone's Pal 2042 Rep 2,972 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Eastern Long Island iTrader: (5) Garage List 2013 BMW 335xi [10.00]	I hope they set the shift points to right before the PWG turbo starts to tail off. __________________ Alpine MSS Stage 2+ E30 tune\|MST Intakes\|VRSF Single Mid Pipe\|Agency Power Intercooler\|VTT Full solution crank hub fix
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12-25-2018, 01:03 PM	#102
Mr.B_Germany New Member 0 Rep 7 Posts Drives: BMW 335ix F31 Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	Back to Top. 8HP Tuning is Available Done mine 2 Weeks ago. 335ix F31. Last edited by Mr.B_Germany; 12-25-2018 at 01:48 PM..
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12-25-2018, 11:42 PM	#106
doodlebro Lieutenant 121 Rep 470 Posts Drives: '17 X3 35i Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Denver iTrader: (1)	He's in germany, might have been released there? __________________ Current mods Rockford Fosgate P3 // JBL MS-A5001 // MiniDSP Ultra Racing Strut Brace // AFe Pro Dry S // PS2 // Custom Inlet // DV+ // FTP Boost Pipes // VRSF Race IC // VRSF Downpipe // ECUTek Protune @ 5280'
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