[toxik]

Originally Posted by johnung

Thanks! Is there a location where you have seen the “2NH” setting?

i'm far from an e-sys expert, but from what I know SPBR is added via HO-WORT element, for M Performance BBK. As shown in the screenshots I pasted.

2NH is SALAPA element and is coded there. (source: https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/f...ements.966607/)

[rlesko]

Originally Posted by johnung

If someone hooked up e-sys and went into a car that came from the factory with front Brembo 340 brakes, its brake bias code would already be “2NH”. There would be absolutely nothing to change!

You know, I've been thinking about this.

I have a 335i so that means from the factory I have 4 piston brembo up front, 1 piston bosch rear. If you decode my VIN I do not have '2NH'. I read my VO with E-sys, there is no SALAPA Element for 2NH.

Is there any other place to check where this setting would be? I have E-sys on my laptop, so its not too difficult for me to check.

[rlesko]

For anyone wondering, it looks like m235i come from the factory 'coded' with 370 mm rotors instead of 340. Found this very old post on 2addicts, where a 2 owner realized his fronts were coded with 370 (despite obviously being 340). So it seems like johnung was right in the sense that, you only need to VO Code 2NH ore HO-WORT with SPBR if you get bigger brakes. No need for FDL coding values.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...3#post19477583

[mixmastermike]

Originally Posted by johnung

The F3x has different brake caliper/rotor combinations:

FRONT
Brembo 4-piston 370x30
Brembo 4-piston 340x30
Bosch 1-piston 330x24
Bosch 1-piston 312x24

REAR
Brembo 2-piston 345x24
Bosch 1-piston 330x20
Bosch 1-piston 300x20

You are making the assumption that the car needs to know exactly which of the four front and three rear brakes that it has. IT DOES NOT! There are no choices within the coding application to tell the car exactly which of these seven brakes it has, because BMW factory engineers determined that it is not necessary.

The car only cares about which of two brake bias settings to use. Brake bias is a ratio between the front and rear brakes. Coding is done within the e-sys application. There are only two choices:
A) If the car has front Brembo brakes. That code is 2NH.
B) If the car does not have front Brembo brakes, the code is something else.

So if an F3x came from the factory with front Brembo 340 brakes (either grey or blue), its brake bias code from the factory already is 2NH.

So that car’s front brakes could be changed from Brembo 340 to Brembo 370, AND/OR (if it’s rear brakes are Bosch 330) it’s rear brakes could be changed from Bosch 330 to Brembo 345, and NO CODING WOULD BE NEEDED!

If someone hooked up e-sys and went into a car that came from the factory with front Brembo 340 brakes, its brake bias code would already be “2NH”. There would be absolutely nothing to change!

When people report issues after upgrading front Brembo 340’s to Brembo 370’s, other than installation issues like poorly applied brake paste, it’s almost 100% of the time due to only an incomplete bleeding of the brakes, NOT A CODING ISSUE.

The BMW ISTA brake bleeding procedure must be followed to shake off the air bubbles clinging to the inside walls of the brake components like the ABS. See video below
https://youtu.be/o7XsCMqZXw0

Just last week, there was a post where the owner DID see a big improvement after coding after he had upgraded front Brembo 340’s to Brembo 370’s. This was baffling at first.

Later it was determined that the car actually came from the factory with front Bosch brakes. A previous owner had actually upgraded the front brakes to Brembo 340’s, but had failed to have the brake bias coded to 2NH. So when the new owner upgraded the fronts from Brembo 340 to Brembo 370, he had to have the brake bias coded to 2NH because the previous car owner had failed to do so.

Hope this helps!.

I'm about to install a full F80 caliper and larger rotor upgrade with brackets and I'm wondering if the 2NH code is the same for this set up? I'm asuming it is?

[johnung]

Originally Posted by mixmastermike

I'm about to install a full F80 caliper and larger rotor upgrade with brackets and I'm wondering if the 2NH code is the same for this set up? I'm asuming it is?

Yes, it should be.

[nahtanoj1]

Originally Posted by johnung

No difference in brake systems at all. You have front 340mm x 30mm and rear 330x20. The M Performance Kit calipers are identical to blue M Sport calipers on 340i/ix. F370x30/R345x24

From a braking performance standpoint, the improvement comes from the rear Brembo 2-piston calipers 345x24. The performance of the Front 340’s and 370’s is pretty much identical, even identical brake pads. Larger rotors are for show unless you are tracking where the extra mass helps keep off brake fade.

The F340/R330 will nosedive under heavy braking. But the F340/R345 and the F370/R345 will squat very controllably when you stand on the brakes.

The Front dimpled/slotted rotors in the kit are actually noisy and not much of an improvement. They are a BMW Marketing ploy. BMW actually puts full crossdrilled rotors on M3/M4 because they are best for street. Best bite and best in rain. StopTech makes excellent full crossdrilled.

The pads in the kit are no better than average. Hawk 5.0 are much better street pads.

So from a performance standpoint the BMW MPBBK is not a bargain. Better performance can be had by buying a used set of rear 345’s for about $500, StopTech crossdrilled rotors, Hawk 5.0 pads for $250 and StopTech stainless steel brake lines for $120. Paint them any color with G2USA Caliper Paint.

A full set of used F370/R345 calipers, usually in blue, is about $1200-$1300 if you want the larger front rotors.

Paragon has the best bang for the buck brake upgrades for the F3x. Less expensive and more versatile than either BremboGT or StopTech BBK. Paragon makes full crossdrilled rotors on request for the street too.

Paragon makes full floating front 340mm and 370mm rotors too. Great upgrade. Saves 3lbs/corner. I’d order them in full crossdrilled and with anti-rust coating.

Thanks for all this detail @[johnung] - super helpful. I have a 2018 manual 340xi (can provide vin if useful) with stock brakes and wheels and while the kit sounds easy I'm not interested in "noisy" dimpled brakes. I do not track but find the brakes a bit soft. I appreciate your suggestion above and am really looking for some increased performance for a daily driver. Is it asking too much for you to post the part numbers for the various suggestions you have made so I'm sure I don't order the wrong parts? Also is the Hawk 5.0 pad with the StopTech rotors going to be as quiet as my current brakes (I definitely don't want "loud" brakes)

• New or used set of rear 345’s

  StopTech crossdrilled rotors for these

  Hawk 5.0 pads

  New or used Set of front 370's

  StopTech crossdrilled rotors for these

  Hawk 5.0 pads

  Factory front 340 (maybe I paint them)

  StopTech crossdrilled rotors for these

  Hawk 5.0 pads

  StopTech stainless steel brake lines for $120

Again thanks for helping out if you can!

[AspektUSA]

For pad selection, has anyone switched from the OE Semi Metallic brakes and liked it?

I have the blue 370/345mm brakes, and the original pads dust and squeal so much I think I'm done.

I've looked at Akebonos since FCP sells them, and keep getting mixed answers.

ATE seems to have a ceramic line as well, but they don't have a front pad set.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by nahtanoj1

Thanks for all this detail @[johnung] - super helpful. I have a 2018 manual 340xi (can provide vin if useful) with stock brakes and wheels and while the kit sounds easy I'm not interested in "noisy" dimpled brakes. I do not track but find the brakes a bit soft. I appreciate your suggestion above and am really looking for some increased performance for a daily driver. Is it asking too much for you to post the part numbers for the various suggestions you have made so I'm sure I don't order the wrong parts? Also is the Hawk 5.0 pad with the StopTech rotors going to be as quiet as my current brakes (I definitely don't want "loud" brakes)


New or used set of rear 345’s

StopTech crossdrilled rotors for these

Hawk 5.0 pads

New or used Set of front 370's

StopTech crossdrilled rotors for these

Hawk 5.0 pads

Factory front 340 (maybe I paint them)

StopTech crossdrilled rotors for these

Hawk 5.0 pads

StopTech stainless steel brake lines for $120


Again thanks for helping out if you can!

The Hawk 5.0 pads and full crossdrilled rotors aren’t noisy. I do have photos with part numbers that I can send. Please send your full VIN. It’s usually helpful.

I’m a little confused by your parts list. Do you have grey or blue brake calipers now? If grey, is it your intention to just replace your rear 330mm brake calipers & rotors with Brembo 345mm? Or are you also considering replacing your front 340mm with 370mm caliper & rotors?

[johnung]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

For pad selection, has anyone switched from the OE Semi Metallic brakes and liked it?

I have the blue 370/345mm brakes, and the original pads dust and squeal so much I think I'm done.

I've looked at Akebonos since FCP sells them, and keep getting mixed answers.

ATE seems to have a ceramic line as well, but they don't have a front pad set.

Squealing is not caused by pads, it’s poorly applied or missing brake paste. Read post that I just made on the subject here…
https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=29944561

Avoid Akebono and other ceramic pads. Their performance is no better than average. Hawk 5.0 are by far the best street pads I’ve ever had in every category. Part numbers on attached photo.

Replace brake fluid every two years for safety. At the same time upgrade rubber brake hoses to stainless steel to get rid of brake pedal mush and make brake pedal more responsive.

Watch FCP prices carefully. They often jack up prices on certain types of items like brake pads to pay for their replacement warranty. I wouldn’t buy pads from FCP. It’s crazy to pay $360 for pads when the same thing is selling for $200 elsewhere. I’ve seen that big of a difference..

Hope this helps!

[AspektUSA]

Yeah I should try re-lubricating everything with ATE plastilube before changing pads. The pedal feel and durability of the OE pads are very good, I still have 1/2 or 3/5th life left in them.



Update

They're disgusting

View post on imgur.com

[nahtanoj1]

Originally Posted by johnung

The Hawk 5.0 pads and full crossdrilled rotors aren’t noisy. I do have photos with part numbers that I can send. Please send your full VIN. It’s usually helpful.

I’m a little confused by your parts list. Do you have grey or blue brake calipers now? If grey, is it your intention to just replace your rear 330mm brake calipers & rotors with Brembo 345mm? Or are you also considering replacing your front 340mm with 370mm caliper & rotors?

VIN - WBA8B7C51JA583300

I have grey front calipers and grey rear "square" calipers all that look like warn aluminum (aka ugly)

I believe you were suggesting I have the option to paint my front 340mm grey calipers and buy rear calipers, but I will probably just buy new front and rear calipers since I plan to keep the car for a while and it only has 30k miles on it.

I am definitely going to replace the rear with the Brembo 345mm and the front with the 370mm. Looks like these will be expensive but having the part numbers will help me be sure I have the right ones. Do I have a color option on these? And do i need new splash shields too on the front?

Wondering if buying the BBK and then selling the front rotors might make sense?

Also, I will need to part numbers for the StopTech rotors.

I saw the photos you posted for the brake lines and pads so thanks for that info!

Thanks for your help johnung!

[johnung]

Originally Posted by nahtanoj1

VIN - WBA8B7C51JA583300

I have grey front calipers and grey rear "square" calipers all that look like warn aluminum (aka ugly)

I believe you were suggesting I have the option to paint my front 340mm grey calipers and buy rear calipers, but I will probably just buy new front and rear calipers since I plan to keep the car for a while and it only has 30k miles on it.

I am definitely going to replace the rear with the Brembo 345mm and the front with the 370mm. Looks like these will be expensive but having the part numbers will help me be sure I have the right ones. Do I have a color option on these? And do i need new splash shields too on the front?

Wondering if buying the BBK and then selling the front rotors might make sense?

Also, I will need to part numbers for the StopTech rotors.

I saw the photos you posted for the brake lines and pads so thanks for that info!

Thanks for your help johnung!

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. So you want to go F370/R345. Your car already has the correct splash shields.

You can sell your stock calipers and rotors. The F340/R330 setup is a nice brake upgrade for anyone with an F3x that has non-Brembo front brakes.

There are three caveats.
1) their car must have factory rear e-brake that is 185mm, not the smaller 160mm. That’s easy to check with their VIN. See photo.
2) After installing they must have their brakes coded (to S2NH) with the e-sys application. Easy for any BMW mechanic to do in 1/2 hour.
3) With 185mm e-brakes they probably already have the larger rear dust shields which is easy to check in realoem. If not the new rear dust shields need to be cut before bolting them on. Very easy to do as per attached photo. If larger front dust shields are needed they just bolt on.

The most valuable component is your front Brembo 340 grey calipers. They sell used for $450-$550. The rear 330 Bosch calipers might get you another $50. Both sets of rear rotors might get you $100-$200 more but shipping heavy rotors is so expensive that you’ll need to advertise in local BMW forums to try to avoid needing to ship.

The F370/R345 calipers come in Blue from the factory as “M Sport Brakes”. This is the most likely color to find used. The exact same calipers are also sold as “M Performance Brakes” through BMW aftermarket parts. They only come in Red, Orange and Yellow. They are more scarce to find on the used market.

A used set of F370/R345 calipers is typically $1100-$1250 in good to excellent condition.

It’s easy to change brake caliper color yourself with G2USA Caliper Paint. Or by having them powder coated which takes longer and is more expensive.

Buying just the four calipers individually new would cost over $3,000, discounted. So new is not a good option.

They sell the M Performance Brake kit. See link. It costs over $2,000 discounted. It comes with new calipers, new very noisy dimpled & slotted front rotors, just average BMW pads and no rear rotors (which must be purchased separately.

If I couldn’t find a used set and had to buy the MP kit then I’d sell the front rotors and set of F&R pads as new. And buy Hawk 5.0 pads and full crossdrilled rotors.

.https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-part...ed-34112450468

Note: There is also a full floating 370x30 full crossdrilled rotor from Paragon Brakes that is an upgrade to the StopTech full crossdrilled in the photo. I’m going to post more about Paragon this weekend

Hope this helps!

[AspektUSA]

Regreasing the pads have helped, haven't heard a squeak in 2 days.

[nahtanoj1]

Originally Posted by johnung

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. So you want to go F370/R345. Your car already has the correct splash shields.

You can sell your stock calipers and rotors. The F340/R330 setup is a nice brake upgrade for anyone with an F3x that has non-Brembo front brakes.

There are three caveats.
1) their car must have factory rear e-brake that is 185mm, not the smaller 160mm. That’s easy to check with their VIN. See photo.
2) After installing they must have their brakes coded (to S2NH) with the e-sys application. Easy for any BMW mechanic to do in 1/2 hour.
3) With 185mm e-brakes they probably already have the larger rear dust shields which is easy to check in realoem. If not the new rear dust shields need to be cut before bolting them on. Very easy to do as per attached photo. If larger front dust shields are needed they just bolt on.

The most valuable component is your front Brembo 340 grey calipers. They sell used for $450-$550. The rear 330 Bosch calipers might get you another $50. Both sets of rear rotors might get you $100-$200 more but shipping heavy rotors is so expensive that you’ll need to advertise in local BMW forums to try to avoid needing to ship.

The F370/R345 calipers come in Blue from the factory as “M Sport Brakes”. This is the most likely color to find used. The exact same calipers are also sold as “M Performance Brakes” through BMW aftermarket parts. They only come in Red, Orange and Yellow. They are more scarce to find on the used market.

A used set of F370/R345 calipers is typically $1100-$1250 in good to excellent condition.

It’s easy to change brake caliper color yourself with G2USA Caliper Paint. Or by having them powder coated which takes longer and is more expensive.

Buying just the four calipers individually new would cost over $3,000, discounted. So new is not a good option.

They sell the M Performance Brake kit. See link. It costs over $2,000 discounted. It comes with new calipers, new very noisy dimpled & slotted front rotors, just average BMW pads and no rear rotors (which must be purchased separately.

If I couldn’t find a used set and had to buy the MP kit then I’d sell the front rotors and set of F&R pads as new. And buy Hawk 5.0 pads and full crossdrilled rotors.

.https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-part...ed-34112450468

Note: There is also a full floating 370x30 full crossdrilled rotor from Paragon Brakes that is an upgrade to the StopTech full crossdrilled in the photo. I’m going to post more about Paragon this weekend

Hope this helps!

Hey Johnung - Another question - the getbmwparts website suggests that I need to have my DSC recoded:

"BMW recommends having the brake/DSC module re-coded to match these bigger brakes. This can be done at the BMW dealer."

Is this needed for my particular setup, where I am going from F340/R330 to F370/R345? Thanks for all of your help!!

[johnung]

Originally Posted by nahtanoj1

Hey Johnung - Another question - the getbmwparts website suggests that I need to have my DSC recoded:

"BMW recommends having the brake/DSC module re-coded to match these bigger brakes. This can be done at the BMW dealer."

Is this needed for my particular setup, where I am going from F340/R330 to F370/R345? Thanks for all of your help!!

Those instructions automatically come with the BMW MP BBK because they fit a wide variety of F3x cars. But if a car came from the factory with front Brembo 340mm calipers, then it doesn’t have to be recoded. 340 & 370 use the same brake bias code (S2NH)

[nahtanoj1]

Hi again Johnung. Will a 225x45x18 wheel be a problem with these larger brakes/rotors? How about my winter wheels which are 17s?

[AspektUSA]

Originally Posted by nahtanoj1

Hi again Johnung. Will a 225x45x18 wheel be a problem with these larger brakes/rotors? How about my winter wheels which are 17s?

Not all 18" fit the 370mm front brakes, which is why I bought 400m wheels for my winter set.

17" is likely a no go on that size of brake disc as well.

[nahtanoj1]

Ok. My Factory wheels are the 400M wheels pictured in this URL so those should fit right? https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-6...RoCyAYQAvD_BwE

[AspektUSA]

Originally Posted by nahtanoj1

Ok. My Factory wheels are the 400M wheels pictured in this URL so those should fit right? https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-6...RoCyAYQAvD_BwE

Yep, those fit with no issue.

My winter set is 400m 18" on Pirelli Sottozeros, my summer set (OE with the car) is the 19" 442m on S001s.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

Not all 18" fit the 370mm front brakes, which is why I bought 400m wheels for my winter set.

17" is likely a no go on that size of brake disc as well.

The BMW 18” wheels will fit over F370/R345 brakes. BMW 17” wheels will fit over F340/R330 brakes. You can’t say the same for any aftermarket wheel because barrel shape and spoke shape can differ quite a bit.

If you test fit a wheel, Brembo specifies that there’s at least 3mm of clearance between brake components and the wheel’s barrel and spokes. Too little clearance risks road debris like rocks and sticks getting caught and scratching up wheels and brakes.

Quality wheel manufacturers can tell you if brakes will fit. For example, APEX does laser scans of all of the BMW brake systems in the BMW car’s wheel well, plus they laser scan many aftermarket brake kits. Before I ordered a specific APEX 18” wheel model, I told them that I had BMW Brembo F370/R345. I also told APEX which aftermarket brakes I could potentially install in the future. They told me that all of the brake kits that I asked about will fit. That gave me even more confidence in ordering APEX wheels! Photo shows the APEX wheel setup that I chose.

Hope this helps!

[AspektUSA]

Squeaking has returned.

It's only about 1/10th of what it was, but it seems endemic to semi-metallic pads.

[charlie fairmont]

Originally Posted by AspektUSA

Squeaking has returned.

It's only about 1/10th of what it was, but it seems endemic to semi-metallic pads.

Did you hose everything down in brake cleaner or just add more paste?