[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by thescouselander

My previous car was a diesel which I ran almost exclusively on the expensive fuel - that didn't stop the intake coking up badly though. Whatever the benefit might be I'm highly sceptical it does anything to keep the engine cleaner.

Type of use will have an impact, whatever fuel we use. Many diesel engines are used in the worst of situations, not too much hope of running a clean engine. What the additives typically give, is best chance to be running at optimum performance.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Type of use will have an impact, whatever fuel we use. Many diesel engines are used in the worst of situations, not too much hope of running a clean engine. What the additives typically give, is best chance to be running at optimum performance.

Pete, clearly you know your stuff- would you recommend an additive such as millers for a 3.0 twin turbo Land Rover diesel? Regular use is 37 miles each way commute, 80% motorway, interspersed with a couple of miles of urban use journeys at weekends. I tend to try to do one tank in three or four as premium fuel, but perhaps an additive would be better.

[Preciseyyc]

For what it's worth. In my 2004 dodge 1 ton diesel I noticed it ran cleaner, smoother and better mileage running v power diesel. I picked up 100k a tank, noticed major differences after my third full tank.
I tried it once or twice in my x5d but my wife would
Always go somewhere else so I couldn't fully flush the "other" stuff to be running straight consistent v power diesel. My .02 it was worth it

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Pete, clearly you know your stuff- would you recommend an additive such as millers for a 3.0 twin turbo Land Rover diesel? Regular use is 37 miles each way commute, 80% motorway, interspersed with a couple of miles of urban use journeys at weekends. I tend to try to do one tank in three or four as premium fuel, but perhaps an additive would be better.

I come from the era when we had dirty diesel, before low sulphur and ULSD. When we went low sulphur, many users started adding Millers and the like simply to improve lubricity, to save injection pumps and injector failures. I could give many examples of user experience, particularly the bad stuff, but on forums it all becomes anecdotal evidence.

I used BP Ultimate in my E91 330d from day one, would notice a drop in performance, mpg and more diesel combustion noise when I had to fill with standard diesel. Like when filling up in the North West of Scotland, where there was no premium diesel. I started carrying Millers to use in those circumstances.

If I was running a common rail diesel I would definitely be running premium (if the price is right), or a shot of my own additive, like Millers. I'd be trying to keep the engine condition and performance as optimum as possible.

Talking with a garage owner a while back who hire cars, noticed he had Countdown on the shelf. He commented that so many who hire cars fill with supermarket diesel fuel. Some diesel engines are so rough after miles of that habit, he adds a shot of Countdown to help get the engine back on song.

Some would say he's wasting his money, but some of these guys have extensive experience. Like the recovery guy who sees diesel dilution, due to poor running conditions, aborted DPF or failed regenerations, or engines so full of carbon deposits it is a wonder how they run at all. Every little helps.

"We pay our money" as the saying goes.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I come from the era when we had dirty diesel, before low sulphur and ULSD. When we went low sulphur, many users started adding Millers and the like simply to improve lubricity, to save injection pumps and injector failures. I could give many examples of user experience, particularly the bad stuff, but on forums it all becomes anecdotal evidence.

I used BP Ultimate in my E91 330d from day one, would notice a drop in performance, mpg and more diesel combustion noise when I had to fill with standard diesel. Like when filling up in the North West of Scotland, where there was no premium diesel. I started carrying Millers to use in those circumstances.

If I was running a common rail diesel I would definitely be running premium (if the price is right), or a shot of my own additive, like Millers. I'd be trying to keep the engine condition and performance as optimum as possible.

Talking with a garage owner a while back who hire cars, noticed he had Countdown on the shelf. He commented that so many who hire cars fill with supermarket diesel fuel. Some diesel engines are so rough after miles of that habit, he adds a shot of Countdown to help get the engine back on song.

Some would say he's wasting his money, but some of these guys have extensive experience. Like the recovery guy who sees diesel dilution, due to poor running conditions, aborted DPF or failed regenerations, or engines so full of carbon deposits it is a wonder how they run at all. Every little helps.

"We pay our money" as the saying goes.

Thanks for this very detailed reply, Pete. Very useful and reminds me that I should do a little to take care of the Disco engine - as I do plan to run it to high mileage if my current commute continues (which I hope it does).

I ran my E90 320d for 105k miles on a mixture of Shell standard and premium, with the odd bit of BP and it was faultless to the end. Twice I used Tesco standard fuel and both times had a considerable drop off in MPG.

[seenthelight!]

its not the actual fuel that matters, its the additives that make the difference. the suppliers, shell, bp, supermarkets etc, get all the base fuel from one of 3 refineries, who in turn get it all from the same source. ultimately, 99.5% of all fuel is the identical base ... the only difference is the 0.5%, which is added by the fuel company before the end user (us, the drivers) buys it. what is important is the additives, and the quality of these, that is used in the fuel ..... there is a reason why morrisons/asda fuel is the cheapest ....
btw, this 0.5% can be further enhanced by additives readily available

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I come from the era when we had dirty diesel, before low sulphur and ULSD. When we went low sulphur, many users started adding Millers and the like simply to improve lubricity, to save injection pumps and injector failures. I could give many examples of user experience, particularly the bad stuff, but on forums it all becomes anecdotal evidence.

I used BP Ultimate in my E91 330d from day one, would notice a drop in performance, mpg and more diesel combustion noise when I had to fill with standard diesel. Like when filling up in the North West of Scotland, where there was no premium diesel. I started carrying Millers to use in those circumstances.

If I was running a common rail diesel I would definitely be running premium (if the price is right), or a shot of my own additive, like Millers. I'd be trying to keep the engine condition and performance as optimum as possible.

Talking with a garage owner a while back who hire cars, noticed he had Countdown on the shelf. He commented that so many who hire cars fill with supermarket diesel fuel. Some diesel engines are so rough after miles of that habit, he adds a shot of Countdown to help get the engine back on song.

Some would say he's wasting his money, but some of these guys have extensive experience. Like the recovery guy who sees diesel dilution, due to poor running conditions, aborted DPF or failed regenerations, or engines so full of carbon deposits it is a wonder how they run at all. Every little helps.

"We pay our money" as the saying goes.

Loaded up with BP premium yesterday. Just under half a tank for £61. Felt like I was treating the car properly though

[G50]

I use a full tank every 5-6 days in my mapped 330d. My local fuel stations are an Esso and supermarket fuel.

I've tried the supermarket plus Miller's and found improved engine noise over just supermarket, buts it's a faff and the millers stinks if you keep the bottle in the car.
The Esso(standard) fuel gives the same effect and I almost exclusively use this now. I have twice filled up with standard Shell at different garages recently and both times the engine got louder and more gruff with increased clatter. It was also more laggy in the lower revs, less responsive and more likely to change down a gear.

I think Esso was once thought of as lower quality fuel, but I believe they changed the additive package a few years ago, and I genuinely believe it's the best for my engine now based on noise, or lack of it, I can barely hear the engine when using Esso. It's also £1.25.9 where I live!

[CJF30]

For those who mention smell / spill issues keeping it in the car, I find the little slot next to the tool tray in the boot of my F30 is the perfect size and shape to hold a bottle of millers or redex without tipping over - even in spirited driving.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by CJF30

For those who mention smell / spill issues keeping it in the car, I find the little slot next to the tool tray in the boot of my F30 is the perfect size and shape to hold a bottle of millers or redex without tipping over - even in spirited driving.

Or, keep it inside an airtight container - I use on of these, held in place by the elasticated strap on the rear left wheel arch inside the boot.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0000AN4..._mh-7DbXEVWSS6

This may not be the exact item, as I've ordered several Lock & Lock containers over the years.

[rjwojcik]

Originally Posted by rjwojcik

Never used additives before but off the back of this thread have decided to invest in some Hydra Diesel Power Blast as well. We'll see how that goes...

So I bought myself this:

HYDRA 2 EHN 99% 2 Ethylhexyl Nitrate FUEL CETANE BOOSTER 1L
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Made bugger all difference in my Golf GTD (after six refills). I always do brim to brim calculations.

[Eddamoo]

Originally Posted by rjwojcik

So I bought myself this:

HYDRA 2 EHN 99% 2 Ethylhexyl Nitrate FUEL CETANE BOOSTER 1L
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Made bugger all difference in my Golf GTD (after six refills). I always do brim to brim calculations.

Yep that's what i use. Although i dont see much difference in my newer cars, the sheer difference it made to my older ones (real soot machines) makes me know there is some improvement. That improvement will be on the DPF.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Eddamoo

Yep that's what i use. Although i dont see much difference in my newer cars, the sheer difference it made to my older ones (real soot machines) makes me know there is some improvement. That improvement will be on the DPF.

That’s exactly it isn’t it. I’ve seen the difference between Morrison’s diesel and shell V Power used on a mates old vectra with no DPF.. the V Power doesn’t shove out the exhaust anywhere near as much smoke, and that alone shows me the stuff is better for the car.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by G50

I use a full tank every 5-6 days in my mapped 330d. My local fuel stations are an Esso and supermarket fuel.

I've tried the supermarket plus Miller's and found improved engine noise over just supermarket, buts it's a faff and the millers stinks if you keep the bottle in the car.
The Esso(standard) fuel gives the same effect and I almost exclusively use this now. I have twice filled up with standard Shell at different garages recently and both times the engine got louder and more gruff with increased clatter. It was also more laggy in the lower revs, less responsive and more likely to change down a gear.

I think Esso was once thought of as lower quality fuel, but I believe they changed the additive package a few years ago, and I genuinely believe it's the best for my engine now based on noise, or lack of it, I can barely hear the engine when using Esso. It's also £1.25.9 where I live!

I have to agree
with shell v power the performance seems inferior to BP ultimate and best is surprisingly esso supreme. Even essos standard stuff gives best mpg.

as for supermarket fuel its for the lesser brands. I would never use anything but supreme premium fuel for my cars.

[rjwojcik]

Originally Posted by Eddamoo

Yep that's what i use. Although i dont see much difference in my newer cars, the sheer difference it made to my older ones (real soot machines) makes me know there is some improvement. That improvement will be on the DPF.

Sorry, meant to say on my MPG. So are you saying it reduced the smoke generated rather than increased the MPG?

[Ti Rich]

Having used Millers for years I now use Archoil D6900. It workes out cheaper than Millers and, to me, the engine is even smoother. Normal BP and this works better than other combinations to me.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Archoil-AR6...ews/B01IDDF4JM

[Eddamoo]

Originally Posted by rjwojcik

Sorry, meant to say on my MPG. So are you saying it reduced the smoke generated rather than increased the MPG?

I don't do regular enough journeys to track MPG to be honest. In my old cars I think I recorded a roughly 2mpg increase.

If it causes less regens, that will also save fuel as the car won't need to heat up the DPF as much.

[malcnunn]

my 35d has a very minor flat spot when i use normal fuel , it's not evident at all when i run shell v power . Not noticed any other benefits though but hoping the injectors are cleaner

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Hooded

That’s exactly it isn’t it. I’ve seen the difference between Morrison’s diesel and shell V Power used on a mates old vectra with no DPF.. the V Power doesn’t shove out the exhaust anywhere near as much smoke, and that alone shows me the stuff is better for the car.

Pre the DPF, is when many users found out which fuels burn cleanest. Having had a lot of experience with VW diesels over the years, fuel can definitely make a difference to smoke levels. Particularly from a cold start.

I recall guys performing Bosch smoke tests and proving beyond doubt that not all fuels are equal in diesel engines. Some diesel engines are more sensitive to fuel changes than other examples. Condition, (particularly injectors), mileage, all play a part in optimum combustion.

[Alscoob]

Picking up on this post late one so forgive me if it's been mentioned to death but my last car was a 330d F31 bought with 9k miles, when it reached circa 15k I noticed a light rattle at light load up to around 2k rpm as some others have.

I stopped using supermarket diesel and after a few tanks it was still there, tried premium fuel and seemed at times slightly better. I moved to branded standard diesel with Archoil additive each tank, no more rattle, engine was smoother.

Couldn't tell you if the MPG was any better as I wasn't worried, it averaged 42mpg over its lifetime with me (9k to 80K miles) which was good enough for the performance.

So standard fuel plus additive is the way forward in my book, also more cost effective than premium fuels.

[lethbridge]

... or, if you are like me just don't care about it - at the end of the day it's a diesel engine - fill up with supermarket & save the money for something more useful in life... I've not had a single issue in the 500k miles I've done in 30/35ds and they've always been filled with Tesco or Sainsbury standard fuel and have run faultlessly (did try an additive a few times but noticed no difference). At the end of the day if there was an issue it would be covered by warranty anyway - just seems an unnecessary expense to me but ETTO. I even run my M3CP on supermarket premium - ideally 99RON - but the other day I was in the middle of nowhere and on 0 miles range and the only fuel was Morrison's standard - admittedly I only put 10 litres in but I didn't notice any difference (when I get that with a car designed to exploit higher octane it will make a difference but in my experience not unless you are doing timed laps)... Money is money in my book - just because I can afford something expensive doesn't mean I want to waste it on something that doesn't make any difference to me (whether it makes a difference to the car several owners later I really don't care as the word depreciation helps me to sleep at night with that on my conscience) - appreciate some of you seem to be much more in tune with your engines than I clearly am.

I do get the point that if you are a low mileage diesel owner and plan on keeping it a long time (and don't have a warranty) - so into the 100ks - then an additive will definitely be worthwhile... I do totally get that... Just felt it worth giving a bit of a balance to the thread - especially for those that buy new and keep for 3-4 years and think this is somehow of great importance in that situation...

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by lethbridge

... I do get the point that if you are a low mileage diesel owner and plan on keeping it a long time (and don't have a warranty) - so into the 100ks - then an additive will definitely be worthwhile... I do totally get that... Just felt it worth giving a bit of a balance to the thread - especially for those that buy new and keep for 3-4 years and think this is somehow of great importance in that situation...

Valid point on short term ownership, most would have no financial benefit from giving any attention to fuel used. The long term benefits of a premium diesel (or additives) won't be seen either.

As to feeling fuel differences, emissions, power output, etc., will continue to be influenced by opinion, more than the actual science.

On the petrol front, I use a branded 95RON in my 535i, as in normal use there is no obvious benefit to premium fuel 'on the fly'. What I do know from experience, Tesco's 99RON gives more power/torque, (influences gear changes), better mpg. But not available locally. Both my local branded premium fuels (Esso and BP) are only 97RON, not so noticeable and at a hefty price increase over the standard fuel. I've added the BMW additive with a tank of fuel, when I started hearing a bit of ticking from the injectors. Done that a couple of times in 8-years.