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      07-22-2018, 10:49 AM   #1
Savageenterprise
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Can someone please explain the difference flash vs JB4

Hi, can someone please explain how the mission performance flash is different in comparison to just adding a JB4? Sorry but Iím new to the whole tuning game and this would be the first car Iíve done in a very long time. Just trying to understand how it works and get in on the group buy if it makes sense.

Also, can it be run On a mostly stock 340? I donít want to half ass anything and since Iím leasing the Only upgrades I planned on doing were dinan midpipe, bms Intake and the tune (if I can) when I take delivery of my car. I just donít want to do the tune for example and have things breaking/have issues because I didnít do a full exhaust or change the DP.

Any feedback would be really appreciated, thank you.
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      07-22-2018, 10:59 AM   #2
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No flash available for b58 engine made available yet. But protuning freaks cracked the ecu a couple months ago.
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      07-22-2018, 11:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotheran View Post
No flash available for b58 engine made available yet. But protuning freaks cracked the ecu a couple months ago.
Mission performance has a thread going right now for group buy on B58 Flash....did I read something wrong?
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      07-22-2018, 11:49 AM   #4
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JB4 will run on a pure stock car. More performance parts more power. JB4 is a piggy back. Intercepts the sensor readings & converts them before passing them on to the CPU.

A flash re-codes the ECU itself with new parameters. Have not fooled with it since 335is but the JB4 was invisible to BMW when it was removed.

With a flash the ECU had a counter that recorded the number of updates. BMW could use the counter to recognize that the car had run a tune even after it was removed.

Would be an issue on a major warranty claim.

Both had their advantages & disadvantages. In the bad old days we ran what was know as a "stacked" system. A piggy back with a flash tune of the ECU. At the time it created the most power you could get from the engine.
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      07-22-2018, 12:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savageenterprise View Post
Mission performance has a thread going right now for group buy on B58 Flash....did I read something wrong?
You are correct. That said they make a claim but don't show any dyno runs that I saw. Not sure what the 380 HP means. Is in crank or WHP. There will always be a spread between crank & wheel with crank producing the higher number.
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      07-22-2018, 12:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
JB4 will run on a pure stock car. More performance parts more power. JB4 is a piggy back. Intercepts the sensor readings & converts them before passing them on to the CPU.

A flash re-codes the ECU itself with new parameters. Have not fooled with it since 335is but the JB4 was invisible to BMW when it was removed.

With a flash the ECU had a counter that recorded the number of updates. BMW could use the counter to recognize that the car had run a tune even after it was removed.

Would be an issue on a major warranty claim.

Both had their advantages & disadvantages. In the bad old days we ran what was know as a "stacked" system. A piggy back with a flash tune of the ECU. At the time it created the most power you could get from the engine.

I see....thanks for the breakdown. Sounds like a JB4 would serve me well enough then, just figured if costs were comparable and the flash would get more out of the car I would consider it. Car will be a lease and likely will give it in after the 3 years and donít want a lot of headaches lol. From what Iíve gathered the JB4 seems to be pretty reliable for most as well
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      07-23-2018, 12:30 PM   #7
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I have some time and bored on my lunch break, so here's a breakdown from my experience.

Flash Tune = ECU program
JB4 = Piggyback

ECU Program = Defines how the car will run

Piggyback = Plugs into existing engine harness with a control module that intercepts the input signals and modifies them before they are read by the ECU program, allowing the car to run outside it's original parameters without detection.


Pros
Flash Tune = more seamless integration with the car, writes to the ECU like the OEM stock or MPPSK tune, no added clutter to the engine bay, can be specifically written for your car/setup/region, fail-safes will react more quickly

Piggyback = cheaper, easier to develop (so it gets to the market quicker), easier to install/remove, virtually invisible to ECU

Cons
Flash Tune = Can be seen by dealer/may affect warranty work, typically costs more, need to make sure your ECU tune is safe and from a reputable vendor (a lot of risk going cheap), need a professional to install or additional cost for installation hardware

Piggyback = Worse driveability especially at the limit, adds an extra step before fail safes respond so more dangerous way of doing things, less efficient/less power since still held back by some OEM limitations.

Personally I will never run a piggyback. I've seen the logs and how choppy it can look, and I've heard enough stories of cars working great one minute and falling on it's face the next. Your car is already analyzing a lot of data in order to control what it does the next moment safely, and you're adding another step in that process. So it's constantly tugging back and forth.

A proper flash tune completely rewrites how the car will behave and will respond as seemlessly as OEM when developed properly. Just be weary of fly by night operations, because a lot of people try tune sell tunes on facebook/instagram and can be hit or miss on reliability.
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As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      07-23-2018, 01:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
I have some time and bored on my lunch break, so here's a breakdown from my experience.

Flash Tune = ECU program
JB4 = Piggyback

ECU Program = Defines how the car will run

Piggyback = Plugs into existing engine harness with a control module that intercepts the input signals and modifies them before they are read by the ECU program, allowing the car to run outside it's original parameters without detection.


Pros
Flash Tune = more seamless integration with the car, writes to the ECU like the OEM stock or MPPSK tune, no added clutter to the engine bay, can be specifically written for your car/setup/region, fail-safes will react more quickly

Piggyback = cheaper, easier to develop (so it gets to the market quicker), easier to install/remove, virtually invisible to ECU

Cons
Flash Tune = Can be seen by dealer/may affect warranty work, typically costs more, need to make sure your ECU tune is safe and from a reputable vendor (a lot of risk going cheap), need a professional to install or additional cost for installation hardware

Piggyback = Worse driveability especially at the limit, adds an extra step before fail safes respond so more dangerous way of doing things, less efficient/less power since still held back by some OEM limitations.

Personally I will never run a piggyback. I've seen the logs and how choppy it can look, and I've heard enough stories of cars working great one minute and falling on it's face the next. Your car is already analyzing a lot of data in order to control what it does the next moment safely, and you're adding another step in that process. So it's constantly tugging back and forth.

A proper flash tune completely rewrites how the car will behave and will respond as seemlessly as OEM when developed properly. Just be weary of fly by night operations, because a lot of people try tune sell tunes on facebook/instagram and can be hit or miss on reliability.
Hey, thanks for the breakdown . If I was going to get a flash it would be through the forum where i see a bunch of other members going for it and providing feedback, not just some hustler on IG lol. I'm still awaiting arrival of my car so not ready to pull the trigger just yet but trying to get my ducks in a row and see if it would be worth it. I'm getting a 6MT so either route I go I hope it can handle the extra power without pushing it to the limits
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      07-23-2018, 01:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savageenterprise View Post
Hey, thanks for the breakdown . If I was going to get a flash it would be through the forum where i see a bunch of other members going for it and providing feedback, not just some hustler on IG lol. I'm still awaiting arrival of my car so not ready to pull the trigger just yet but trying to get my ducks in a row and see if it would be worth it. I'm getting a 6MT so either route I go I hope it can handle the extra power without pushing it to the limits
MissionPerformance is not fly by night.

I’d go with them before a JB4.
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      07-23-2018, 01:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savageenterprise View Post
Hey, thanks for the breakdown . If I was going to get a flash it would be through the forum where i see a bunch of other members going for it and providing feedback, not just some hustler on IG lol. I'm still awaiting arrival of my car so not ready to pull the trigger just yet but trying to get my ducks in a row and see if it would be worth it. I'm getting a 6MT so either route I go I hope it can handle the extra power without pushing it to the limits
Most stage one tunes will not put out anymore power than the MPPSK so you are good. Full bolt-on modified cars with aftermarket turbos push 700HP without killing the engine so there is a lot of safety margin. Just use the highest octane fuel you can get at the pump to get the best out of whatever tune you choose.

That said if its an ordered lease car the MPPSK is a viable cost alternative when included in the lease
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      07-23-2018, 01:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Most stage one tunes will not put out anymore power than the MPPSK so you are good. Full bolt-on modified cars with aftermarket turbos push 700HP without killing the engine so there is a lot of safety margin. Just use the highest octane fuel you can get at the pump to get the best out of whatever tune you choose.

That said if its an ordered lease car the MPPSK is a viable cost alternative when included in the lease
True, well that's good to hear lol. Yeah, by me its mostly 93 which i planned on using anyway, regardless if i tune or not. From what I've read that should be more than adequate.
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      07-23-2018, 01:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
I have some time and bored on my lunch break, so here's a breakdown from my experience.

Flash Tune = ECU program
JB4 = Piggyback

ECU Program = Defines how the car will run

Piggyback = Plugs into existing engine harness with a control module that intercepts the input signals and modifies them before they are read by the ECU program, allowing the car to run outside it's original parameters without detection.


Pros
Flash Tune = more seamless integration with the car, writes to the ECU like the OEM stock or MPPSK tune, no added clutter to the engine bay, can be specifically written for your car/setup/region, fail-safes will react more quickly

Piggyback = cheaper, easier to develop (so it gets to the market quicker), easier to install/remove, virtually invisible to ECU

Cons
Flash Tune = Can be seen by dealer/may affect warranty work, typically costs more, need to make sure your ECU tune is safe and from a reputable vendor (a lot of risk going cheap), need a professional to install or additional cost for installation hardware

Piggyback = Worse driveability especially at the limit, adds an extra step before fail safes respond so more dangerous way of doing things, less efficient/less power since still held back by some OEM limitations.

Personally I will never run a piggyback. I've seen the logs and how choppy it can look, and I've heard enough stories of cars working great one minute and falling on it's face the next. Your car is already analyzing a lot of data in order to control what it does the next moment safely, and you're adding another step in that process. So it's constantly tugging back and forth.

A proper flash tune completely rewrites how the car will behave and will respond as seemlessly as OEM when developed properly. Just be weary of fly by night operations, because a lot of people try tune sell tunes on facebook/instagram and can be hit or miss on reliability.
Perfect answer. Should be stickied on the mods and main sections. Question is asked quite often.
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