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      03-26-2020, 11:44 PM   #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Is it possible that one sensor is overriding the other's sensor's measurements? Which one is "priority" to the DME? assuming the one closest to the head.
I think it's just a data logging software formula/calculation issue.

Everyone using a JB+ in isolation would see the same if they could datalog. JB4 has a factor they add in e.g. 1.1 for adjusting the TMAP volts for logging as they spoof both MAP and TMAP sensors. Spoofing the manifold sensor where the charge air temperature is measured also allows/forces the car to run higher timing as it thinks the charge air temps are lower.

I'm pretty sure this is also occurring in the custom tunes as I've seen some funny torque act. clutch nm values in some of the Pure800/Dorch Stage 2 logs with boost >25 PSI where the torque values at the clutch are not even 600 nm. This is another way of getting high and consistent timing for all cylinders in conjunction with knock sensor sensitivity reduction.

There must be a correlation in the MHD software calculating items based on TMAP volts (charge pipe). Using the charge pipe boost sensor spoofer is similar to using a slightly different sensor, for relative comparison of data you'd need to rescale the logging software to report it like for like, or just develop your own offline translation tables.

Items affected include:

MAP (manifold PSI), but not volts which is reported correctly
Boost Target PSI
Boost Target RAM PSI
MAF g/s
Load Actual
Load Actual RAM
Torque Act Clutch nm

It doesn't affect:
Ambient Pressure PSI
MAP (manifold) volts
WGDC (you can see in the log that WGDC is higher to achieve the higher boost)
AFR
Fuel Rail Pressure Required PSI
Fuel Rail Presure Mean PSI

I'm just going to see how the car settles into this. Other things I might experiment with include using the MHD Stage 2 E30 map instead of the 95_102 map I'm currently using and increasing ethanol content if and when the fuel rail pressure consistently hits target again.
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      03-27-2020, 05:55 PM   #596
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I see 1 knock event every 350 log records. How frequent are people seeing knock?
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      03-28-2020, 06:21 AM   #597
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Quote:
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I see 1 knock event every 350 log records. How frequent are people seeing knock?
On OTS maps I only saw it down low at boost onset every once in a while. I'd say timing pull and the number of cylinders pulling timing is a better indicator than the knock counter. Also where you see the knock is important. If it's high in the rev range, that would be more dangerous.
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      03-28-2020, 07:30 AM   #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWILUVU View Post
I see 1 knock event every 350 log records. How frequent are people seeing knock?
On OTS maps I only saw it down low at boost onset every once in a while. I'd say timing pull and the number of cylinders pulling timing is a better indicator than the knock counter. Also where you see the knock is important. If it's high in the rev range, that would be more dangerous.
Is it also true that the knock counter is really more of a pre-knock counter and super knock is what's really bad? My interpretation. I remember Jarek (MG Flasher) telling me something like this. He's really knowledgeable.

EDIT: found email on this...

"There are knock events and then there are what is classified as a "super-knock event". The knock counter in the ecu will count per every individual knock eventually leading up to a threshold value that will classify an x amount of knocks as a super-knock event. If this event is encountered the ECU will immediately flag it and many OEM functions will kick into play which include enrichment of the air fuel mixture, a reduction in overall timing advance as well as a reduction in target boost pressure. These are all safeguards that come fitted to the MG1 platform and we kept them stock as much as it is possible.

Knock counter data in the Logger is not "Super knock" - it is Bedingung fuer erkannte Klopfer ( German) which is Status when excessive noise is detected which requires slight timing correction - why the noise is there under so light load and cruising where mostly factory adjustment/maping is taken into account ?
Possible reason - If you fit an aftermarket downpipe (I know your car is stock just trying to explain how the system works ) to the vehicle with less restriction than OEM which will in turn increase noise within the system. An increase in noise will most times mean an increase in vibration through the driveline. If you do not account for this additional vibration then you will most times encounter false knock events which will then raise the knock counter and in turn could inadvertently flag a super-knock event that will decrease overall performance for absolutely no reason."
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      03-29-2020, 04:38 PM   #599
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I don't think my hpfp likes E25 on MHD 95oct OTS. Think I should give it time to adapt? Also, does my IAT seem high? Ambient temp was 86F.

https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/log...&data=4-18
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      03-29-2020, 06:07 PM   #600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InstigatorX View Post
I don't think my hpfp likes E25 on MHD 95oct OTS. Think I should give it time to adapt? Also, does my IAT seem high? Ambient temp was 86F.

https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/log...og=0&data=4-18
That HPFP rail pressure is fine.

Move it up to E30, run it for a while and see how it adapts. Based on my experience I expect you'll see timing corrections reduce, timing consistency improve and HPFP rail pressure stabilise. Then move to the Stage 2 95_102 map

IAT is normal. Even in cold weather IAT will typically be in the 105 to 122 F range
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      03-29-2020, 06:58 PM   #601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by InstigatorX View Post
I don't think my hpfp likes E25 on MHD 95oct OTS. Think I should give it time to adapt? Also, does my IAT seem high? Ambient temp was 86F.

https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/log...&data=4-18
That HPFP rail pressure is fine.

Move it up to E30, run it for a while and see how it adapts. Based on my experience I expect you'll see timing corrections reduce, timing consistency improve and HPFP rail pressure stabilise. Then move to the Stage 2 95_102 map

IAT is normal. Even in cold weather IAT will typically be in the 105 to 122 F range
Thx...much appreciated. That dip between 3000-3800 is ok? Also, looks like it's over boosting more so than what I had on 93oct OTS. You think adaptation will sort that out?
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      03-29-2020, 07:36 PM   #602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InstigatorX View Post
Thx...much appreciated. That dip between 3000-3800 is ok? Also, looks like it's over boosting more so than what I had on 93oct OTS. You think adaptation will sort that out?
That dip is typical and reflects peak boost at relatively low RPM. The HPFP is cam based. It'll sort itself out.

The DME will call a halt to proceedings if fuel pressure dips too far (much less than 2000 PSI) and it anticipates this will cause issues. I've experienced this a few times experimenting with higher E blends and higher boost. It hits a lower pressure limit and immediately drops boost. You're no where near that point.

Your Load Required to Load Actual is close to perfect and boost will vary depending on ambient pressure and temperature.

It looks like you don't have xHP transmission flash and you are hitting the 550Nm TCU torque limit. I recommend you get that and re-flash MHD with the Manual Trans/xHP option.

Adaptions will sort everything else out over time.
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      03-29-2020, 08:21 PM   #603
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InstigatorX View Post
Thx...much appreciated. That dip between 3000-3800 is ok? Also, looks like it's over boosting more so than what I had on 93oct OTS. You think adaptation will sort that out?
That dip is typical and reflects peak boost at relatively low RPM. The HPFP is cam based. It'll sort itself out.

The DME will call a halt to proceedings if fuel pressure dips too far (much less than 2000 PSI) and it anticipates this will cause issues. I've experienced this a few times experimenting with higher E blends and higher boost. It hits a lower pressure limit and immediately drops boost. You're no where near that point.

Your Load Required to Load Actual is close to perfect and boost will vary depending on ambient pressure and temperature.

It looks like you don't have xHP transmission flash and you are hitting the 550Nm TCU torque limit. I recommend you get that and re-flash MHD with the Manual Trans/xHP option.

Adaptions will sort everything else out over time.
I have xHP stage 2 loaded...? I didn't even check torque...is it off?
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      03-29-2020, 09:11 PM   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InstigatorX View Post
I have xHP stage 2 loaded...? I didn't even check torque...is it off?
The reason I asked is that in your last log, if you select the torque act clutch item and status torque limiter and torque lim.1, you can see that when torque at clutch goes over 550 - 560Nm between 2800 and 4500 RPM the limiter is flagged.

I'm thinking they also have a lower torque limit at higher RPM e.g. over 5500 RPM limit torque to 510NM

Maybe double check Torque Limits are off in xHP and make sure you've selected MANUAL (MT) OR XHP FLASHED AT after you select the map in MHD Flasher

Edit: another thing that may flag the torque limiter is loss of traction e.g. wet/cold or poor surface road, or just wheel spin due to limited grip, which you'll have in 1st - 3rd and a little around 2800 - 3800 RPM in 4th even on a dry good surface.
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      03-29-2020, 09:25 PM   #605
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InstigatorX View Post
I have xHP stage 2 loaded...? I didn't even check torque...is it off?
The reason I asked is that in your last log, if you select the torque act clutch item and status torque limiter and torque lim.1, you can see that when torque at clutch goes over 550 - 560Nm between 2800 and 4500 RPM the limiter is flagged.

I'm thinking they also have a lower torque limit at higher RPM e.g. over 5500 RPM limit torque to 510NM

Maybe double check Torque Limits are off in xHP and make sure you've selected MANUAL (MT) OR XHP FLASHED AT after you select the map in MHD Flasher
I did exactly that before loading the 95oct tune. i.e. loaded Mhd with xHP flashed with no torque limits. For the record, I had xHP with torque limits ON prior, but maxed out. But...then changed to OFF. I was wondering if xHP had a bug is why I had max but ON.

I'll test with ON but max for xHP tomorrow...you've got me thinking there could be a bug.
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      03-30-2020, 04:15 AM   #606
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Hey I was wondering if you can take a look at this for me and tell me if everything fine. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e7d...0b43508e700b0b

Currently have XDI 35 pump with f80 Paul custom tune on E50. Saw that I over boosted towards the end of the pull.
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      03-30-2020, 06:11 AM   #607
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Hi Everyone,

Long time lurker/reader.

After BM3 released their autologging feature I thought I'd try it out test out a few things, also been trying to figure out some things that didn't seem right.

Been battling some wild timing corrections it seems, even now with the car on the stock tune (MPPK) timing seems to be everywhere. I've already bought NGK 94201's and am waiting for them to get in, but wanted to post this to check if there's any other telltale signs I'm missing

On 98 RON, Sport+, 3rd gear 8AT, been keeping note of what constitutes a good log so hopefully I got there! No wheel spin from what I felt/can see. Apologies for the doubled up ignition timing, need to remove the non RAM logging. Also boost (pre throttle) I'm pretty sure is being measured in PSI, not hPa as its coming up as.

1. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a091 (best log I got)
2. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a088
3. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a086
4. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a084

Thanks in advance!
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      03-30-2020, 06:40 AM   #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinatech View Post
Hey I was wondering if you can take a look at this for me and tell me if everything fine. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e7d...0b43508e700b0b

Currently have XDI 35 pump with f80 Paul custom tune on E50. Saw that I over boosted towards the end of the pull.
It's ok, but timing could use some work. How many revisions have you done?

My recommendation:
1. Add timing correction from the RAM channels to your logging parameters, and moving your logging channels over to the RAM channels
2. For a proper log, start at 2k in 3rd or 4th gear and then do a full pull through the rev range. I know paul likes to shift at least once or twice after a full pull.
3. Verify your ethanol blend with a sensor if you can

Paul can work on the boost spikes after shifts. He fixed it on mine after a few revisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoevan View Post
Hi Everyone,

Long time lurker/reader.

After BM3 released their autologging feature I thought I'd try it out test out a few things, also been trying to figure out some things that didn't seem right.

Been battling some wild timing corrections it seems, even now with the car on the stock tune (MPPK) timing seems to be everywhere. I've already bought NGK 94201's and am waiting for them to get in, but wanted to post this to check if there's any other telltale signs I'm missing

On 98 RON, Sport+, 3rd gear 8AT, been keeping note of what constitutes a good log so hopefully I got there! No wheel spin from what I felt/can see. Apologies for the doubled up ignition timing, need to remove the non RAM logging. Also boost (pre throttle) I'm pretty sure is being measured in PSI, not hPa as its coming up as.

1. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a091 (best log I got)
2. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a088
3. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a086
4. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a084

Thanks in advance!
IATs look good, boost looks ok. Try changing your spark plugs. What's your car's mileage? Is it time to do other maintenance like replacing your intake filter?
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      03-30-2020, 07:10 AM   #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoevan View Post
Hi Everyone,

Long time lurker/reader.

After BM3 released their autologging feature I thought I'd try it out test out a few things, also been trying to figure out some things that didn't seem right.

Been battling some wild timing corrections it seems, even now with the car on the stock tune (MPPK) timing seems to be everywhere. I've already bought NGK 94201's and am waiting for them to get in, but wanted to post this to check if there's any other telltale signs I'm missing

On 98 RON, Sport+, 3rd gear 8AT, been keeping note of what constitutes a good log so hopefully I got there! No wheel spin from what I felt/can see. Apologies for the doubled up ignition timing, need to remove the non RAM logging. Also boost (pre throttle) I'm pretty sure is being measured in PSI, not hPa as its coming up as.

1. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a091 (best log I got)
2. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a088
3. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a086
4. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a084

Thanks in advance!
^^ What Kern said.

Can you do a 4th gear log to better rule out traction control?

Add E85 With the MPPK boost profile E30 would be no problem and a good way to test if it's just a lack of octane.
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      03-30-2020, 07:37 AM   #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinatech View Post
Hey I was wondering if you can take a look at this for me and tell me if everything fine. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e7d...0b43508e700b0b

Currently have XDI 35 pump with f80 Paul custom tune on E50. Saw that I over boosted towards the end of the pull.
It's ok, but timing could use some work. How many revisions have you done?

My recommendation:
1. Add timing correction from the RAM channels to your logging parameters, and moving your logging channels over to the RAM channels
2. For a proper log, start at 2k in 3rd or 4th gear and then do a full pull through the rev range. I know paul likes to shift at least once or twice after a full pull.
3. Verify your ethanol blend with a sensor if you can

Paul can work on the boost spikes after shifts. He fixed it on mine after a few revisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoevan View Post
Hi Everyone,

Long time lurker/reader.

After BM3 released their autologging feature I thought I'd try it out test out a few things, also been trying to figure out some things that didn't seem right.

Been battling some wild timing corrections it seems, even now with the car on the stock tune (MPPK) timing seems to be everywhere. I've already bought NGK 94201's and am waiting for them to get in, but wanted to post this to check if there's any other telltale signs I'm missing

On 98 RON, Sport+, 3rd gear 8AT, been keeping note of what constitutes a good log so hopefully I got there! No wheel spin from what I felt/can see. Apologies for the doubled up ignition timing, need to remove the non RAM logging. Also boost (pre throttle) I'm pretty sure is being measured in PSI, not hPa as its coming up as.

1. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a091 (best log I got)
2. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a088
3. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a086
4. https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e81...0b436f8802a084

Thanks in advance!
IATs look good, boost looks ok. Try changing your spark plugs. What's your car's mileage? Is it time to do other maintenance like replacing your intake filter?
Thanks bro and have countless revision still got a lot to go just flash the XHP stage 3.
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      03-30-2020, 08:11 AM   #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
IATs look good, boost looks ok. Try changing your spark plugs. What's your car's mileage? Is it time to do other maintenance like replacing your intake filter?
On the money there, cars done 30000km (~19000 miles), up for an oil change, intake filter and spark plugs from BMW, think it'll be Bosch's they put in but should get the NGK's soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
^^ What Kern said.

Can you do a 4th gear log to better rule out traction control?

Add E85 With the MPPK boost profile E30 would be no problem and a good way to test if it's just a lack of octane.
Will do! Anecdotal but just got PS4S's all round 2 weeks ago and didn't notice the traction light once while logging, but still worth ruling out
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      04-03-2020, 06:21 PM   #612
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Bought the E30 OTS maps from MHD. I was running E25 on 95OCT OTS and they suggested the E30 OTS would better even with E25. Here are a couple logs.

https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040320-2
https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040320-1

Thoughts?
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      04-03-2020, 08:04 PM   #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InstigatorX View Post
Bought the E30 OTS maps from MHD. I was running E25 on 95OCT OTS and they suggested the E30 OTS would better even with E25. Here are a couple logs.

https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040320-2
https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040320-1

Thoughts?
More E. Timing correction across all cylinders. Try bumping it up to actual E30.
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      04-03-2020, 11:13 PM   #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Newt View Post
More E. Timing correction across all cylinders. Try bumping it up to actual E30.
^^ Agree, even E34. Your rail pressure is bang on target, so can take more ethanol.

Also, have you checked/tested the E85 you're using. It's unlikely to be 85% ethanol and if it is as low as E60, a typical winter blend, you may only have E17 in the tank. Based on your timing it suggests you have a lower E blend than you think.

If you have 30 litres in the tank, latest log you posted showed 31 litres in the final entry, assuming you're actually at E20, add 2 US gallons (7.6 litres) of E85, if the E85 is only E60 you'll have E28 and at the high end you may end up with E33, which is still OK.

Here's a Virtual Dyno comparing the MHD Stage 1 95_102 to the Stage 1 E30. With less boost you're making more power and the area under the torque curve is much greater.

It must feel a lot faster with the E30 map?

Once you get it up to E30 or even E34 I think you should load up the Stage 2 E30 map. Boost profile is the same as Stage 1, just shoots for a bit more timing. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the increase you'll get in power and torque.

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      04-04-2020, 08:43 AM   #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Newt View Post
More E. Timing correction across all cylinders. Try bumping it up to actual E30.
^^ Agree, even E34. Your rail pressure is bang on target, so can take more ethanol.

Also, have you checked/tested the E85 you're using. It's unlikely to be 85% ethanol and if it is as low as E60, a typical winter blend, you may only have E17 in the tank. Based on your timing it suggests you have a lower E blend than you think.

If you have 30 litres in the tank, latest log you posted showed 31 litres in the final entry, assuming you're actually at E20, add 2 US gallons (7.6 litres) of E85, if the E85 is only E60 you'll have E28 and at the high end you may end up with E33, which is still OK.

Here's a Virtual Dyno comparing the MHD Stage 1 95_102 to the Stage 1 E30. With less boost you're making more power and the area under the torque curve is much greater.

It must feel a lot faster with the E30 map?

Once you get it up to E30 or even E34 I think you should load up the Stage 2 E30 map. Boost profile is the same as Stage 1, just shoots for a bit more timing. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the increase you'll get in power and torque.

Thx, man! As always your guidance is much appreciated.

I've tested the E85 out at E75, so I'm fairly certain I'm close to E25. I'll go to E30 and test. Will test pump as well.

As for ST2, I don't have any after market add-ons. Been thinking about a high flow catted DP lately, though.

EDIT: Tested again to E75.

Last edited by InstigatorX; 04-04-2020 at 05:24 PM..
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      04-04-2020, 05:25 PM   #616
InstigatorX
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Drives: 2018 440i GC
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Here are 2 new logs on MHD v3.0 E30 ST1. Fuel is E30 (tested to E85 @ E75 level today).

https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040420-1
https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/mhd-v30-e30-040420-2

Definitely feels faster and stronger. Knock delta is lower, but timing is all over the place.
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