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      03-26-2020, 02:05 PM   #3477
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Car in question was an I3
I3 is not consider a ICE by anyone.
I think anyone who doesn't consider the optional internal combustion engine on the i3 an internal combustion engine is probably misleading themselves
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      03-26-2020, 02:59 PM   #3478
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I think anyone who doesn't consider the optional internal combustion engine on the i3 an internal combustion engine is probably misleading themselves
'Optional' meaning not nessary
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      03-26-2020, 04:32 PM   #3479
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Well, finally Musk is starting to take shit seriously:

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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      03-26-2020, 06:17 PM   #3480
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
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Originally Posted by MFNATIK View Post
LOL...this comment was just too egregious that I had to call it out.

Come on, pluuuuuuease...like your bougie ass would sit on a dirty stanky bus instead of hopping into a modern, cutting edge of technology, automobile.

AP is one of the biggest selling points of getting a new Tesla. I don't even commute but whenever we go anywhere, I try to use it as much as possible b/c it takes out the stress of driving and lets you do almost anything besides take a nap. It makes everything that used to be a distraction when driving a non-issue. It's not perfect and I've had 1 or 2 close calls with it, but it's not half as bad as your comment suggests.
Bus driver at least won't rob me of 20k

Are you planning to rebuild a salvaged Tesla? If not, this doesn't really apply.
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      03-26-2020, 06:26 PM   #3481
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Originally Posted by 740I_yeye View Post
Tbh though I've never liked Tesla and other electric cars because they pose a threat to the future of combustion powered cars lol. I can't stand having a car that is silent, where is the joy?...
I think that's why people are so anti-ev that they make up excuses about how inconvenient they are, or they don't like tech or auto pilot. They convince themselves that it's a progressive conspiracy and that climate change is science fiction which somehow means that electric cars are a liberal tool for mind control. It's all very reactionary and paranoid that someone will tow their ICE from their garages. They are two steps away from wearing aluminum foil shirts to protect them from 5G.

I agree on the sound though, I like how my M3 sounds with the MPE-snorting, growling and burbling on the track. But I also enjoy the stealthy techno whurrr of my i3 as I floor it. Very satisfying.
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      03-26-2020, 06:39 PM   #3482
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Are you planning to rebuild a salvaged Tesla? If not, this doesn't really apply.
My chance of rebuilding a tesla are about the same as rebuilding a note 4. Meanwhile I full intended to maintaine and repair my current car for life just as I do my other cars that I enjoy driving and keeping.
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      03-26-2020, 06:40 PM   #3483
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I think that's why people are so anti-ev that they make up excuses about how inconvenient they are, or they don't like tech or auto pilot. They convince themselves that it's a progressive conspiracy and that climate change is science fiction which somehow means that electric cars are a liberal tool for mind control. It's all very reactionary and paranoid that someone will tow their ICE from their garages. They are two steps away from wearing aluminum foil shirts to protect them from 5G.

I agree on the sound though, I like how my M3 sounds with the MPE-snorting, growling and burbling on the track. But I also enjoy the stealthy techno whurrr of my i3 as I floor it. Very satisfying.
Solar particles added to the the new ipc models has already debunk man made global warming a full report will be publish in 2022.

P.s. maintaining an old car is more climate friendly then building a new tesla.
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      03-26-2020, 08:29 PM   #3484
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Solar particles added to the the new ipc models has already debunk man made global warming a full report will be publish in 2022.
You just proved my point.
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      03-26-2020, 08:31 PM   #3485
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
My chance of rebuilding a tesla are about the same as rebuilding a note 4.
So the answer is no and it doesn't apply.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Meanwhile I full intended to maintaine and repair my current car for life just as I do my other cars that I enjoy driving and keeping.
I like warranties and having new cars. Without new car owners like me, technically, there would be on secondary market, so I see it as providing a service for people who like to buy used cars.
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      03-26-2020, 08:32 PM   #3486
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You just proved my point.
not my fault your behind on recent research, Harvard only took apart the old model by pointing out how horrible incorrect in ocean temperature prediction was. Guess you believe in the static universe theory since that was the consistence until it stop being once more research and observation debunk it.

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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
So the answer is no and it doesn't apply.
If the Tesla was worth rebuilding/maintaining I would, but it clearly not, it a disposable electronic product like a flat screen TV and a cell phone. Which demonstrates bad value, harmful to the environment, and a terrible trend that the motor industry should be rejecting, not excusing.
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      03-26-2020, 09:09 PM   #3487
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You are doing it for the lulz.
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      03-26-2020, 09:28 PM   #3488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
If the Tesla was worth rebuilding/maintaining I would, but it clearly not, it a disposable electronic product
That reminds me of when I a little kid - I used to hang out with my buddy and his dad while he rebuilt 50s chevys; I still remember him saying that japanese cars were doomed because they weren't worth maintaining and were like disposable razors.

That stuck with me all the way until I was 15 and got my first car, a junkyard Ford Fiesta that I rebuilt until it ran - i could've bought a much newer Japanese car that required less work, but I didn't because, duh, Japanese cars were doomed.

Anyway, once I went to engineering school I learned why Japanese cars weren't doomed: engineering! Guys like Ed Deming taught Toyota how to manage production, and eventually that Toyota model saved Porsche and revolutionized auto manufacturing. The key is that, along the way, that was the new hotness for engineering students, it was what everyone wanted to study and learn, both because it was where the jobs were, but also because it was new and you could make a real contribution.

The same thing happened with the internet, btw. All the engineering students wanted to learn chip design until about '95 when CSci came in and became the new hotness. Still kinda is with good engineers able to make $300k right out of school.

Well, electric power is the new hotness.

Tesla. Rivian. Goal Zero. Solar, lithium, it's all starting. e.g., the number of overland and camping power solutions has exploded as energy density comes up and consumers start realizing how convenient electric power is. It'll move to homes, merge with cars, consumer products will continue growing ... and then ...

Fast and Furious was all about modding disposable cars.

The beginnings of the BEV version of that is about 3 years away - you'll know it when you start seeing teens in old modded Model 3s.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      03-26-2020, 09:37 PM   #3489
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
not my fault your behind on recent research, Harvard only took apart the old model by pointing out how horrible incorrect in ocean temperature prediction was. Guess you believe in the static universe theory since that was the consistence until it stop being once more research and observation debunk it.
Confirmation bias. I can cherry pick a bunch of studies to prove or disprove almost anything. I must admit though, I'm behind the times in trying to find studies to confirm my own personal beliefs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
If the Tesla was worth rebuilding/maintaining I would, but it clearly not, it a disposable electronic product like a flat screen TV and a cell phone. Which demonstrates bad value, harmful to the environment, and a terrible trend that the motor industry should be rejecting, not excusing.
Why are you lumping rebuilding with maintaining? I have an old Honda Civic that's probably only worth $10k right now. Would I rebuild it if it were totalled? No, it's not worth it. Do I maintain it? Of course! Who wouldn't maintain a functioning car?

Why would I treat a 2013 Tesla S ($30-40k used) any different? Why would I not maintain it? It's actually not that expensive.

I get it, you don't like it, but just say you don't like it. You can't say its not worth maintaining because it's simply not true. Honestly, you are just proving my earlier point even more. You just don't like it. We get it.
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      03-26-2020, 09:38 PM   #3490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
That reminds me of when I a little kid - I used to hang out with my buddy and his dad while he rebuilt 50s chevys; I still remember him saying that japanese cars were doomed because they weren't worth maintaining and were like disposable razors.

That stuck with me all the way until I was 15 and got my first car, a junkyard Ford Fiesta that I rebuilt until it ran - i could've bought a much newer Japanese car that required less work, but I didn't because, duh, Japanese cars were doomed.

Anyway, once I went to engineering school I learned why Japanese cars weren't doomed: engineering! Guys like Ed Deming taught Toyota how to manage production, and eventually that Toyota model saved Porsche and revolutionized auto manufacturing. The key is that, along the way, that was the new hotness for engineering students, it was what everyone wanted to study and learn, both because it was where the jobs were, but also because it was new and you could make a real contribution.

The same thing happened with the internet, btw. All the engineering students wanted to learn chip design until about '95 when CSci came in and became the new hotness. Still kinda is with good engineers able to make $300k right out of school.

Well, electric power is the new hotness.

Tesla. Rivian. Goal Zero. Solar, lithium, it's all starting. e.g., the number of overland and camping power solutions has exploded as energy density comes up and consumers start realizing how convenient electric power is. It'll move to homes, merge with cars, consumer products will continue growing ... and then ...

Fast and Furious was all about modding disposable cars.

The beginnings of the BEV version of that is about 3 years away - you'll know it when you start seeing teens in old modded Model 3s.
We already had EV vs ICE vs SPE. Ice is the superior product still, and will not be replace by EV anytime soon, purely due to convince, power per sq inch and weight, and far cheaper and easier to repair/maintain with less string attach.

BTW, I don't see many 60, and 70 Japanese cars people strive for. It not until the 80's and 90's that the demand and the interest to maintain them came along, so your friend was right at the time, just like I'm right about Tesla at this very moment.
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      03-26-2020, 09:43 PM   #3491
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Confirmation bias. I can cherry pick a bunch of studies to prove or disprove almost anything. I must admit though, I'm behind the times in trying to find studies to confirm my own personal beliefs.




Why are you lumping rebuilding with maintaining? I have an old Honda Civic that's probably only worth $10k right now. Would I rebuild it if it were totalled? No, it's not worth it. Do I maintain it? Of course! Who wouldn't maintain a functioning car?

Why would I treat a 2013 Tesla S ($30-40k used) any different? Why would I not maintain it? It's actually not that expensive.

I get it, you don't like it, but just say you don't like it. You can't say its not worth maintaining because it's simply not true. Honestly, you are just proving my earlier point even more. You just don't like it. We get it.
Please find one study with the new models demostratong man made climate change from co2. Nothing to cherry pick the old model said we had mmcc the new one with solar particles have failed to replicate it now that it has a more realistic data of stuff that actually effects the planet.

My car was recently in an accident, pretty sure it value is 20k but I still put 10k into fixing it because I love my car and I don't have to worry about BMW suddenly degrading my fuel range or taking features away from what came in the car orginally. It a terrible precedent Tesla is setting and people shouldn't be defending them for it.
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      03-26-2020, 09:49 PM   #3492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Please find one study with the new models demostratong man made climate change from co2. Nothing to cherry pick the old model said we had mmcc the new one with solar particles have failed to replicate it now that it has a more realistic data of stuff that actually effects the planet.
Fine me one where it doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
My car was recently in an accident, pretty sure it value is 20k but I still put 10k into fixing it because I love my car and I don't have to worry about BMW suddenly degrading my fuel range or taking features away from what came in the car orginally. It a terrible precedent Tesla is setting and people shouldn't be defending them for it.
There are several reasons, from a legal standpoint, that they had to switch it off for a salvaged vehicle that hasn't undergone inspection. I'm not defending them, I'm just stating facts. If the facts happen to be defending them, then that's the fault of the facts, not me. Don't kill the messenger.
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      03-26-2020, 09:52 PM   #3493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
We already had EV vs ICE vs SPE. Ice is the superior product still,
Sorry, this is scientifically incorrect. It is, in FACT, less efficient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
and will not be replace by EV anytime soon, purely due to convince, power per sq inch and weight, and far cheaper and easier to repair/maintain with less string attach.
You are behind the times, my friend. Good luck playing catch up in a few years.
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      03-26-2020, 09:56 PM   #3494
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Sorry, this is scientifically incorrect. It is, in FACT, less efficient.



You are behind the times, my friend. Good luck playing catch up in a few years.
How much power do you get from a gallon of gasoline
How much weight and volume in batteries do you need to equal that same amount of power from that gallon.

How long does a typical fuel stop go fully fill up
How long does it take to fully charge a tesla battery
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      03-26-2020, 10:16 PM   #3495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Sorry, this is scientifically incorrect. It is, in FACT, less efficient.



You are behind the times, my friend. Good luck playing catch up in a few years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
How much power do you get from a gallon of gasoline
How much weight and volume in batteries do you need to equal that same amount of power from that gallon.

How long does a typical fuel stop go fully fill up
How long does it take to fully charge a tesla battery

While I almost bought a Tesla and do look forward to the EV future, NormanConquest is right on in one basic point. We often fail to really appreciate just how much energy is in a gallon of gasoline. Teslas get what, about 100 mpg equivalent and go 300 miles? So the massive battery pack is about 3 gallons of gasoline. Remarkable.
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      03-26-2020, 10:21 PM   #3496
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
How much power do you get from a gallon of gasoline
How much weight and volume in batteries do you need to equal that same amount of power from that gallon.
How many times can you re-burn gas vs the multiple cycles of a battery? None.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
How long does a typical fuel stop go fully fill up
Gas: 4-6 minutes
Electric: 0 minutes, I don't have **fuel** stops

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
How long does it take to fully charge a tesla battery
Doesn't matter, because I don't have to wait for it since I charge at home. I plug it in, go to sleep, and wake up to a full battery. I didn't have to wait at all.

Wanna know how much $ in gas I spent on my commute last month? $0. Wanna know how much my electricity bill increased per month since I started charging at home? $20. Wanna know how much my M3 burned in gas per month when I used to commute in it? $400.

Is $380/mo worth the extra time and effort to plug it in (10 seconds, minimal effort)?

The EV is the modern car for the this modern world. Provided COVID doesn't end it...
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      03-26-2020, 11:32 PM   #3497
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
How many times can you re-burn gas vs the multiple cycles of a battery? None.



Gas: 4-6 minutes
Electric: 0 minutes, I don't have **fuel** stops


Doesn't matter, because I don't have to wait for it since I charge at home. I plug it in, go to sleep, and wake up to a full battery. I didn't have to wait at all.

Wanna know how much $ in gas I spent on my commute last month? $0. Wanna know how much my electricity bill increased per month since I started charging at home? $20. Wanna know how much my M3 burned in gas per month when I used to commute in it? $400.

Is $380/mo worth the extra time and effort to plug it in (10 seconds, minimal effort)?

The EV is the modern car for the this modern world. Provided COVID doesn't end it...

Now your being dishonest
A. You need to recharge and you know it takes much longer to recharge a battery over refueling a petro tank.

That nice your okay with the world being very large and vast and untravable since your teather to your house like a serf. Meanwhile the world is small and easy to travel for myself as I can easily go from the east to the west with 30 minutes max used on refueling.

My 340i last month i spent 200 dollars. I rather pay that and not worry about being stuck somewhere for an hour recharging my car because as the old saying goes time is money. And time is the most expensive limited resource we have.

EV are not the future as they are horrible replacements for commercial vehicals. Hydrogen cells seems more plausible long term then ev.
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      03-26-2020, 11:44 PM   #3498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
How many times can you re-burn gas vs the multiple cycles of a battery? None.



Gas: 4-6 minutes
Electric: 0 minutes, I don't have **fuel** stops


Doesn't matter, because I don't have to wait for it since I charge at home. I plug it in, go to sleep, and wake up to a full battery. I didn't have to wait at all.

Wanna know how much $ in gas I spent on my commute last month? $0. Wanna know how much my electricity bill increased per month since I started charging at home? $20. Wanna know how much my M3 burned in gas per month when I used to commute in it? $400.

Is $380/mo worth the extra time and effort to plug it in (10 seconds, minimal effort)?

The EV is the modern car for the this modern world. Provided COVID doesn't end it...

Now your being dishonest
A. You need to recharge and you know it takes much longer to recharge a battery over refueling a petro tank.

That nice your okay with the world being very large and vast and untravable since your teather to your house like a serf. Meanwhile the world is small and easy to travel for myself as I can easily go from the east to the west with 30 minutes max used on refueling.

My 340i last month i spent 200 dollars. I rather pay that and not worry about being stuck somewhere for an hour recharging my car because as the old saying goes time is money. And time is the most expensive limited resource we have.

EV are not the future as they are horrible replacements for commercial vehicals. Hydrogen cells seems more plausible long term then ev.
No, you are being selective. I was making a joke hence the

Charge time doesn't matter since I don't wait for it.

Also, I have 3 other cars and they all burn gas, so our world is the same size except I enjoy the conveniences and savings of an EV for short trips. Or I don't use a screwdriver when I'm turning a nut.

Your point has been argued and debunked multiple times in this thread by different people having the same conversations. It always ends with the same conclusion: you don't like it, someone else does. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't serve someone like me very very very very well.

My M3 gas bill last month was also around $200. But that was fun driving (track, canyons), and not commuting. I'd rather spend money driving for fun than commuting in traffic. I'd say my money was better spent.
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