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      03-27-2020, 11:01 PM   #3565
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
FYI, just about every urban apartment complex in silicon valley has BEV power spots, and for street parking, many daytime work parking lots converted to nighttime charging - e.g., ma & pa grocery stores, liquor stores, fast food, banks, corp parking ramps, etc.
A few weeks ago our family was talking about a possible future road trip to Yellowstone, and the question was if we could use my Tesla for that. I checked the charger map, there are no Superchargers to the north-east (coming soon) but instead there's a hotel, in the middle of fucking nowhere, that has installed 3 Tesla and 1 generic chargers.
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      03-28-2020, 05:33 AM   #3566
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
FYI, just about every urban apartment complex in silicon valley has BEV power spots, and for street parking, many daytime work parking lots converted to nighttime charging - e.g., ma & pa grocery stores, liquor stores, fast food, banks, corp parking ramps, etc.

Huge moneymaker for formerly struggling store owners who were mostly empty at night, but now pulling in nice, passive 2nd incomes. It's super easy to do anywhere and excellent economic development for urban small business owners.
Silcon Valley is one of the richest area in the nation, NJ which is smack in the center of the megalopolis only have charge point at malls, I've never seen one at an apartment complex.
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      03-28-2020, 06:06 AM   #3567
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Originally Posted by KRS_SN View Post
with 3 kids and 15k miles/ year an m car or model 3 is sadly not for me. I can accept different tools for different jobs argument.
If I had 3 kids, I feel like a model S is pretty much the only car Id be happy with. I refuse to DD an SUV or crossover, and only the Model S has 3 seat rows plus a (front) trunk (thanks to the before mentioned smaller net size of the EV drivetrain).

... though, unless I have twins in round 2, I wont be having 3 kids, in no small part because its so car limiting.

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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
engine and transmission replacement/rebuild is way cheaper then 16k (that the battery itself, not including installation charge)
Spoken like somebody who has never done it.
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      03-28-2020, 06:23 AM   #3568
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If I had 3 kids, I feel like a model S is pretty much the only car I’d be happy with. I refuse to DD an SUV or crossover, and only the Model S has 3 seat rows plus a (front) trunk (thanks to the before mentioned smaller net size of the EV drivetrain).

... though, unless I have twins in round 2, I won’t be having 3 kids, in no small part because it’s so car limiting.



Spoken like somebody who has never done it.
I have, Engine rebuild/tuning was 2000 transmission rebuild was 3000. Price could go cheaper or higher depending on how you go about it. Battery replacement for an EV will be above 10k no matter what.
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      03-28-2020, 07:09 AM   #3569
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
I have, Engine rebuild/tuning was 2000 transmission rebuild was 3000. Price could go cheaper or higher depending on how you go about it. Battery replacement for an EV will be above 10k no matter what.
I mean... are we talking about a 60s muscle car or something else with 3 parts total?

On a modern BMW, $3000 will cover gaskets and non reusable hardware.

Hours for getting the engine out, taking it apart, machining whatever needs to be machined, putting it back together, reinstalling it in the car, etc will easily set you back another $10-20,000.

... and BMW no longer offers transmission rebuild parts, so that's a total non starter.

Side note: The EV equivalent of rebuilding an engine is replacing used up cells or modules.... and the EV version is far more likely to be successful when you're done

The EV equivalent of replacing an engine, with a new crate engine, is replacing the battery.
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      03-28-2020, 07:33 AM   #3570
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"This has nothing to do with politics..."

"(This) is espoused by the Left!!!!"

What in God's name are you trying to say?
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
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      03-28-2020, 07:53 AM   #3571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I mean... are we talking about a 60s muscle car or something else with 3 parts total?

On a modern BMW, $3000 will cover gaskets and non reusable hardware.

Hours for getting the engine out, taking it apart, machining whatever needs to be machined, putting it back together, reinstalling it in the car, etc will easily set you back another $10-20,000.

... and BMW no longer offers transmission rebuild parts, so that's a total non starter.

Side note: The EV equivalent of rebuilding an engine is replacing used up cells or modules.... and the EV version is far more likely to be successful when you're done

The EV equivalent of replacing an engine, with a new crate engine, is replacing the battery.
Eh, I had my 4L60 trans in my GM truck rebuilt for $2,200 in 2018. Local guy, pulled it out of the 4X4 drivetrain, replaced the clutch pack with a 8-disk upgraded clutch pack and replaced or upgraded all of the valves and solenoids. Shifts way better now. He had it done in a week.

BMW doesn't manufacture transmissions. Their suppliers offer rebuild kits. Most transmissions are advancements of previous designs and use many common parts between models, or the aftermarket will provide rebuilt parts or kits.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
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      03-28-2020, 07:56 AM   #3572
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Eh, I had my 4L60 trans in my GM truck rebuilt for $2,200 in 2018. Local guy, pulled it out of the 4X4 drivetrain, replaced the clutch pack with a 8-disk upgraded clutch pack and replaced or upgraded all of the valves and solenoids. Shifts way better now. He had it done in a week.

BMW doesn't manufacture transmissions. Their suppliers offer rebuild kits. Most transmissions are advancements of previous designs and use many common parts between models, or the aftermarket will provide rebuilt parts or kits.
Find me a 420g rebuild kit from anyone :P
(They don’t exist, from bmw or Getrag)

I don’t doubt you could have a gm truck trans rebuilt.
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      03-28-2020, 08:37 AM   #3573
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Oh Norman,

My F250 weighs 8200 lbs and is rated for 10, 000 lbs bumper pull. The Tesla truck is supposed to weigh 6,500 lbs per you. It's rated at 14,000 lbs towing.

Since i'm clearly not smart enough to do math, can you crunch that for me?

Oh, I may have forgotten to mention the Tesla truck is also the fastest car in the world under $250k. That EV will replace both my M3 and Superduty.

I will again mention I'm after performance and low maintenance. Faster than F%$# is a nice bonus. Faster than anything you will ever own makes me giggle.
Your buying that Tonka truck monstrosity?

Beauty is really in the eye of the beholder.
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      03-28-2020, 08:38 AM   #3574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
FYI, just about every urban apartment complex in silicon valley has BEV power spots, and for street parking, many daytime work parking lots converted to nighttime charging - e.g., ma & pa grocery stores, liquor stores, fast food, banks, corp parking ramps, etc.

Huge moneymaker for formerly struggling store owners who were mostly empty at night, but now pulling in nice, passive 2nd incomes. It's super easy to do anywhere and excellent economic development for urban small business owners.
Silcon Valley is one of the richest area in the nation, NJ which is smack in the center of the megalopolis only have charge point at malls, I've never seen one at an apartment complex.
I can back this up. I also have yet to notice an apartment complex with chargers. Actually, I'd bet there's one someplace, but even so, requiring on-site EV charging severely limits options as to where I'd want to live. Plus if I were to live there, how many charging spots are there? What happens when 5+ residents own EVs, and there are only 4 chargers? We're going to be playing musical chairs where some people can't charge until someone gets off their charger? How would I know when this occurs if I can't see the chargers from my apt? I'm going to keep running down to the lot to check? Also, I have to constantly go down and shuffle my car to a normal spot when it's done charging?
As I always ask myself... why would I put up with all this? Why an I adding this extra complexity to my life?
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      03-28-2020, 08:40 AM   #3575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
FYI, just about every urban apartment complex in silicon valley has BEV power spots, and for street parking, many daytime work parking lots converted to nighttime charging - e.g., ma & pa grocery stores, liquor stores, fast food, banks, corp parking ramps, etc.

Huge moneymaker for formerly struggling store owners who were mostly empty at night, but now pulling in nice, passive 2nd incomes. It's super easy to do anywhere and excellent economic development for urban small business owners.
Silcon Valley is one of the richest area in the nation, NJ which is smack in the center of the megalopolis only have charge point at malls, I've never seen one at an apartment complex.
I can back this up. I also have yet to notice an apartment complex with chargers. Actually, I'd bet there's one someplace, but even so, requiring on-site EV charging severely limits options. Plus if I were to live there, how many charging spots are there? What happens when 5+ residents own EVs, and there are only 4 chargers? We're going to be playing musical chairs where some people can't charge until someone gets off their charger? How would I know when this occurs if I can't see the chargers from my apt? I'm going to keep running down to the lot to check? Also, I have to constantly go down and shuffle my car to a normal spot when it's done charging?
As I always ask myself... why would I put up with all this? Why an I adding this extra complexity to my life?
Exactly, one more damn thing to plug in and charge. Like we didn't have enough gizmos already to worry about..
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      03-28-2020, 08:55 AM   #3576
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Anyone living in an apartment would be foolish to buy a car the price of a remotely new bmw or Tesla.
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      03-28-2020, 08:55 AM   #3577
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The Cybertruck isn't even out yet. How is it the "fastest car in the world for under 250k?"

You're telling me this truck is capable of running 10's in the 1/4 mile?
The dudes been watching too much Battlestar Galactica. Haha
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      03-28-2020, 08:58 AM   #3578
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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Anyone living in an apartment would be foolish to buy a car the price of a remotely new bmw or Tesla.
Why?
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      03-28-2020, 08:58 AM   #3579
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
FYI, just about every urban apartment complex in silicon valley has BEV power spots, and for street parking, many daytime work parking lots converted to nighttime charging - e.g., ma & pa grocery stores, liquor stores, fast food, banks, corp parking ramps, etc.

Huge moneymaker for formerly struggling store owners who were mostly empty at night, but now pulling in nice, passive 2nd incomes. It's super easy to do anywhere and excellent economic development for urban small business owners.
Silcon Valley is one of the richest area in the nation, NJ which is smack in the center of the megalopolis only have charge point at malls, I've never seen one at an apartment complex.
Come on Dude. California is the center of the universe. You didn't know?
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      03-28-2020, 09:00 AM   #3580
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Come on Dude. California is the center of the universe. You didn't know?
Funny, Toronto thinks it is too.
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      03-28-2020, 09:02 AM   #3581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
FYI, just about every urban apartment complex in silicon valley has BEV power spots, and for street parking, many daytime work parking lots converted to nighttime charging - e.g., ma & pa grocery stores, liquor stores, fast food, banks, corp parking ramps, etc.

Huge moneymaker for formerly struggling store owners who were mostly empty at night, but now pulling in nice, passive 2nd incomes. It's super easy to do anywhere and excellent economic development for urban small business owners.
Silcon Valley is one of the richest area in the nation, NJ which is smack in the center of the megalopolis only have charge point at malls, I've never seen one at an apartment complex.
I can back this up. I also have yet to notice an apartment complex with chargers. Actually, I'd bet there's one someplace, but even so, requiring on-site EV charging severely limits options as to where I'd want to live. Plus if I were to live there, how many charging spots are there? What happens when 5+ residents own EVs, and there are only 4 chargers? We're going to be playing musical chairs where some people can't charge until someone gets off their charger? How would I know when this occurs if I can't see the chargers from my apt? I'm going to keep running down to the lot to check? Also, I have to constantly go down and shuffle my car to a normal spot when it's done charging?
As I always ask myself... why would I put up with all this? Why an I adding this extra complexity to my life?
Your handle change is hysterical. Gave me a good laugh yesterday when I 1st saw it.
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      03-28-2020, 09:03 AM   #3582
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Come on Dude. California is the center of the universe. You didn't know?
Funny, Toronto thinks it is too.
So does NY
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      03-28-2020, 09:06 AM   #3583
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So does NY
And what do they all have in common?
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      03-28-2020, 09:10 AM   #3584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Anyone living in an apartment would be foolish to buy a car the price of a remotely new bmw or Tesla.
Why?
You think he realizes some people live in apartments/condominiums intentionally? 🤔
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      03-28-2020, 09:14 AM   #3585
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You think he realizes some people live in apartments/condominiums intentionally? 🤔
What, someone might choose to live in an apartment or condo? And that building might be in a nice enough area that owning a nice car might be another choice they make? I'm going to have to take this away for a bit to consider it.
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      03-28-2020, 09:15 AM   #3586
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See the problem with everything you wrote is, you could be wrong on all of it; which sounds equally like your religion to me. Educated doesn't mean not-religious. Lots of educated people are religious - you are!

The non-religious point of view is this:

(1.) Near as science can determine, the Earth is experiencing unprecedented global warming acceleration which is visually obvious if nothing else.

(2.) We can't prove what's causing it, because we don't understand climate science well enough (so we don't know if and when it'll stop).

(3.) Therefore we should take steps to ensure we aren't burdened with catastrophe.

This is why the concept of financial insurance exists: protect against unknowns. That's a very non-religious things to do because it doesn't rely on faith.

For example, you could examine every inch of every wire in your home every day, you could follow every fire prevention best practice, etc but it still doesn't guarantee your home won't burn down so you buy fire insurance (or at least your mortgage lender is smart enough to make you do it).

Why? Because there are known unknowns, and unknown unknowns, so the smart person has fire insurance.

Do you know why the reinsurance market is doing so great? Because back in the 1990s they priced in effects from global warming. That's what non-religious smart people do, they price in the unknown, and protect themselves using insurance.

As for BEVs, there are a ton of reasons to go BEV other than religion: new technology revolution = jobs, growing economy, less air/noise pollution = happier customers and workers and lower health care costs, etc etc. The economic argument for new technology is unassailable (and that's not including the unknown benefits!).

Good policy should be based on non-religious points of view, which will always be either supported or opposed by the religious, and they should be ignored.

The bottom line is, portable battery electric power is a booming technology revolution that's already created millions of jobs and it's only going to grow from there - it doesn't matter whose religion likes it or doesn't like it.
I know you think your positions on everything Tesla are absolute, fine. Your analogies, however, are not perfect; the fire insurance one especially. What you are missing is, is the property insured has a finite value that the both the owner and insurer agree upon as a replacement cost. If one makes additions to their home, be it infrastructure improvements, upgraded furniture, etc., one goes and revisits and adjusts the fire insurance policy accordingly. But again, these are finite elements of value that are concrete and are agreed upon by the owner and insurer. The only unknown is if or when a fire may destroy the house. The condition and value are known.

Your metaphorical insurance plan for the Earth doesn't work as fire insurance for a house does. The effect on the human species by the change in climate is unknown and can't be known. Therefore the value of the effect is unknown. Any future prediction of what the Earth's climate will be is just that, a prediction based on climate models. While highly scientific, the models at best are based on extrapolated pseudo climate data derived from various sources (not an exhaustive list) such as 10,000 year-old ice cores, fossil plant pollen, earth crust core drillings, and a myriad of geologic data, along with very recent and highly accurate real climate data from terrestrial and space-based sources. The value of the climate effect being unknown means it can't be rationally insured against. Making any type of regulation to curb something believed to anthropogenically affect the climate is only a guess. It is perhaps the most in-absolute construct possible. There is too much natural climate change of the Earth to magically pick from it what is anthropogenic effect, and further what the anthropogenic effect actually means to humans either now, or a thousand years from now.

Homo sapiens have lived on the Earth for a bit less than 100,000 years. Our human ancestors date back just 7 million years ago, on a planet 4.5B years old. It is clear humans have adapted to climate change. There is no reason to doubt we humans will further adapt to climate change. There is no reason to not believe the Earth may be without humans in the future.

Religion is a modern construct of trying to explain the metaphysical; the explanation gets translated into a set of rules to govern oneself (i.e. society). For the rules to work, one must believe in an ultimate judge of character. What better judge than the one who created all things. Faith is a component of religion, not an invention of it. Religions are based on faith that there is an ultimate unseen judge.

For us to think we are smart enough to manipulate the climate for better or for worst is a concept borne out a the modern era where Western people have advanced to the state of boredom. We Western people have too little to worry about, so we turn to worrying about the climate. Where people used to think God would kick their ass, they now believe the climate is going to kick their ass. Hence, this is where the Religious Left come into the picture. They believe their climate-protective behavior will please the climate change Judge. They are forcing their construct of climate-protective behavior on the rest of us. Forcing the change to EV and banning the internal combustion engine and burning of carbon fuel via policy is no different demanding people say the Rosary to get into heaven.

That's why I believe climate change has become a religion.
Excellent post. Bravo. 👏🏻👏🏻
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