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      04-06-2018, 12:39 AM   #155
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brief uodate:

I ran additional logs on the build I had for the dyno run and sent them off. I then flashed a new build and was able to run logs tonight.

Terrible weather and road conditions, but just wow... on the longer pull, I got tail end wiggle coming out of third approaching high 5000 RPM, and got over 6k (but couldn't hit 7) due to conditions. Quick log review shows 17.8lbs psi on the third pull.. and holy crap she feels it!

I see a suspension upgrade in the next few months for sure the way this is going! Just amazing honestly and I will need dyno or track time to safely find the limits.
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      04-06-2018, 01:56 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
It's my understanding that the Torque app won't really give you true boost numbers as it's reading the boost data directly from the DME. Since the DME is being tricked by tunes and piggybacks into seeing lower than actual boost, the boost being reported is lower than actual.

As for dyno numbers, there is VERY little difference in variability between Dynojet numbers. That's what makes the Dynojet so great for comparing dyno numbers.

Assuming 1) the car isn't have an issue (i.e., heat soak, some sort of tuning or mechanical issue, other drivetrain changes); 2) the correction factors are the same (i.e., SAE and STD); and 3) the correction factors aren't extreme (i.e., excessively low or high ambient heat/humidity), you can compare the numbers on two different Dynojets and draw some realistic conclusions if something is gaining power or not. Using the same Dynojet is ideal, but the dyno is incredibly simple in it's design. As the operator, you cannot manipulate the power readings like you can with other Dynos. You can mess around with correction factors, but that's easy to see as the user.

Now what I've noticed be the stock runs and current modded runs is that stock was corrected to SAE and the modded to STD. It's a fact that STD numbers are a bit higher (~3-4%) than SAE corrected numbers. I will say that raichen's stock numbers are pretty high for a non-MPPK equipped EWG N55. Most EWG non-MPPK cars make around ~280whp and ~300twq on the Dynojet. Most MPPK EWG N55s see ~300whp and ~320wtq on the Dynojet. The 6MT cars will see fractionally higher numbers.
came here to say this. The difference between SAE and STD is 2.5%
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      04-06-2018, 09:44 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
brief uodate:

I ran additional logs on the build I had for the dyno run and sent them off. I then flashed a new build and was able to run logs tonight.

Terrible weather and road conditions, but just wow... on the longer pull, I got tail end wiggle coming out of third approaching high 5000 RPM, and got over 6k (but couldn't hit 7) due to conditions. Quick log review shows 17.8lbs psi on the third pull.. and holy crap she feels it!

I see a suspension upgrade in the next few months for sure the way this is going! Just amazing honestly and I will need dyno or track time to safely find the limits.
Those of us waiting for you to get this sorted and for AA to update the tunes are going to have to kick some money so you can move to a drier climate. This is taking entirely too long!
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      04-06-2018, 10:00 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by GPM View Post
Those of us waiting for you to get this sorted and for AA to update the tunes are going to have to kick some money so you can move to a drier climate. This is taking entirely too long!
*laugh* I know right? PacNW briefly teased us all with LOOK ITS SPRING!! then decided screw that, here's a couple more weeks of winter.

The runs last night were really impressive and flash back moments to driving my buddies F80 M4.. yes, that is a raw beast, but when my 435i is starting to remind me of the couple of drives in that, GREAT things are happening.
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      04-06-2018, 10:40 AM   #159
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We might hit 100 next week. Rain is such a rare occurrence that many of stay home in fear. In a couple of months I'll be considering moving up your way.
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      04-06-2018, 10:43 AM   #160
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We might hit 100 next week. Rain is such a rare occurrence that many of stay home in fear. In a couple of months I'll be considering moving up your way.
We all have our weird stuff.. if AZ folks stay home if it rains, WA folks FREAK THE !#$!#@ out at like 2 inches of snow on the ground, and then drive either 1.5mph with hazards on, or 80mph on freeway off ramps and do confused interviews on the news later on why they ended up on the roof.
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      04-06-2018, 12:04 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
*laugh* I know right? PacNW briefly teased us all with LOOK ITS SPRING!! then decided screw that, here's a couple more weeks of winter.

The runs last night were really impressive and flash back moments to driving my buddies F80 M4.. yes, that is a raw beast, but when my 435i is starting to remind me of the couple of drives in that, GREAT things are happening.
Oh man that is great stuff right there!!
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      04-06-2018, 11:50 PM   #162
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Ok.. so I have been digging across the forums, and Google-Fu, and not come up with any concreate answer so asking here:

What should I consider too high for catalyst temps?

I am still running factory cats of course, and am waiting on the AA high flow DP. I also am working on making sure I am getting ACCURATE stats through Torque Pro, pulling the right info in the right way.

That said, I am looking at the PID "Catalyst Temperature Bank 1, Sensor 1" and have that logged for the last couple of runs, I have done.

I ran logs with that PID on my dyno build and saw temps as high as 1511F, on my couple of street runs, to gather data, 15.2 max turbo. I then flashed to the new more aggressive build where I saw as high as 17.8lbs and now catalyst temps as high as 1608F. They came off quickly as I backed off, but should I be concerned?

Searching around I found E90s talking about 1100s being average driving, and spikes as high as 1600, but didn't find anything outright for F32s.

I know I have about max back pressure possible right now with all of the upgrades above the factory DP, but am I at risk here? I DO NOT want to tear my car up.. I cannot afford a motor, and am MORE than willing to back off substantially until I replace my DP if needed.

thoughts?
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      04-07-2018, 04:24 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
Ok.. so I have been digging across the forums, and Google-Fu, and not come up with any concreate answer so asking here:

What should I consider too high for catalyst temps?

I am still running factory cats of course, and am waiting on the AA high flow DP. I also am working on making sure I am getting ACCURATE stats through Torque Pro, pulling the right info in the right way.

That said, I am looking at the PID "Catalyst Temperature Bank 1, Sensor 1" and have that logged for the last couple of runs, I have done.

I ran logs with that PID on my dyno build and saw temps as high as 1511F, on my couple of street runs, to gather data, 15.2 max turbo. I then flashed to the new more aggressive build where I saw as high as 17.8lbs and now catalyst temps as high as 1608F. They came off quickly as I backed off, but should I be concerned?

Searching around I found E90s talking about 1100s being average driving, and spikes as high as 1600, but didn't find anything outright for F32s.

I know I have about max back pressure possible right now with all of the upgrades above the factory DP, but am I at risk here? I DO NOT want to tear my car up.. I cannot afford a motor, and am MORE than willing to back off substantially until I replace my DP if needed.

thoughts?
Those are some high egts. Be careful Steph! Nick told me that the stock catalytic converters can get very very hot and that I would need to upgrade them or go catless. Timing and fueling is important as well. Hopefully they did not pull too much timing under boost. Too much fuel has to be watched also. Call Nic!
Ususally if I remember right 1300 degrees was usually the highest safe value but I am going to double check. I think it’s time to go high flow cat or cat less to protect those pistons at those boost levels. Google safe egts!! Be easy and I would lower the boost or take it easy till you change the catalyst. The stock cat may not be able to handle the tune/boost under sustained WOT causing high temps.
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      04-07-2018, 09:53 AM   #164
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I have a Scangauge that has programmable settings for Cat Temp. Those settings don't always work for all vehicles but I'll try them later today and see if I can get some readings from my car.
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      04-07-2018, 09:54 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPM View Post
I have a Scangauge that has programmable settings for Cat Temp. Those settings don't always work for all vehicles but I'll try them later today and see if I can get some readings from my car.
Thank you!!

Still all stock or flashed yet? Worst case I could flash back to full stock, take readings, repeat with the latest build etc.
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      04-07-2018, 10:43 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
Thank you!!

Still all stock or flashed yet? Worst case I could flash back to full stock, take readings, repeat with the latest build etc.
AA Stage 1+ tuned. I was going to suggest you try taking the readings on stock as well as your original AA tune for comparison. If I am able to get the Scangauge to work, it doesn't have logging capability so it will depend on my being able to spot the peak temp while under full boost. Obviously not the ideal. I will give it a shot in a couple of hours.
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      04-07-2018, 11:26 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPM View Post
AA Stage 1+ tuned. I was going to suggest you try taking the readings on stock as well as your original AA tune for comparison. If I am able to get the Scangauge to work, it doesn't have logging capability so it will depend on my being able to spot the peak temp while under full boost. Obviously not the ideal. I will give it a shot in a couple of hours.
Yeah, I have another thread going for Torque Pro and adding proper BMW PIDs and how to do so for better logging.. I am hoping once I get that straightened out, then log again, then see.

Candidly I just really dont want to screw up my car.. I want my car tuned up which it seems it has a TON of ceiling, but not to the breaking point.
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      04-07-2018, 11:33 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy View Post
Yeah, I have another thread going for Torque Pro and adding proper BMW PIDs and how to do so for better logging.. I am hoping once I get that straightened out, then log again, then see.

Candidly I just really dont want to screw up my car.. I want my car tuned up which it seems it has a TON of ceiling, but not to the breaking point.
Absolutely, that's why I've been sitting back and letting you be the guinea pig. I thought of checking with Nic for a tune update based on the improvements you've seen, but waiting seems to be a good idea. I have no plans to add a DP so taking care of the stock cats is important.
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      04-07-2018, 11:37 AM   #169
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Thank you!!

Still all stock or flashed yet? Worst case I could flash back to full stock, take readings, repeat with the latest build etc.
Won't hurt and will tell you a whole lot.
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      04-07-2018, 11:38 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPM View Post
AA Stage 1+ tuned. I was going to suggest you try taking the readings on stock as well as your original AA tune for comparison. If I am able to get the Scangauge to work, it doesn't have logging capability so it will depend on my being able to spot the peak temp while under full boost. Obviously not the ideal. I will give it a shot in a couple of hours.
Have a passenger read it out for you. Street tuning and logging always great with two people.
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      04-07-2018, 11:42 AM   #171
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Yeah, I have another thread going for Torque Pro and adding proper BMW PIDs and how to do so for better logging.. I am hoping once I get that straightened out, then log again, then see.

Candidly I just really dont want to screw up my car.. I want my car tuned up which it seems it has a TON of ceiling, but not to the breaking point.
I say take it easy as stg 2 was meant for a catless dp anyway. Be patient will take longer if you have engine failure. You have come this far so just go to the stock map temporarily and enjoy knowing she is making power tuned. Go catless for now and wait for the AA high flow. Or go stock map.
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      04-07-2018, 12:03 PM   #172
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Well, no luck. I tried all 8 possible settings for Cat Temp and none of them worked. I may need to update the firmware on the Scangauge but that means taking it to them (they are local). Maybe next week. Sorry.
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      04-07-2018, 12:39 PM   #173
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Anyone consider getting the Simon 2 cable for datalogging? It's like 45.00 and works.
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      04-07-2018, 12:57 PM   #174
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Found this page that says that a 'thermal failure' will set a P0420 code. Since you've only seen the high temps in short runs I doubt you've set a code.

http://www.catcoglobal.com/assets/fi...ld%20final.pdf

Also found this:

Typically, converter temperatures will not exceed 1200 F on a properly running engine. Periodic operation above 1600 F can negatively affect the precious metals coating on the substrate, reducing its efficiency. Excessive temperatures can reduce the converter's durability, or - if high enough - destroy the converter's matting or substrate.

on this page:
http://www.walkerexhaust.com/support...er-temperature

Sounds like your temps are at a problematic threshold. I would guess that something like a track day might cook your cats. Occasional spikes that high are probably safe, but I'd check logs running at less than max boost to see if you're in the safe area (didn't go back to see if you'd done that).

Also, if nobody else bites the bullet I might order the Simon 2 cable. What's another $45 at this point...
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      04-07-2018, 01:04 PM   #175
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I am really fighting with Torque Pro.. the default PIDs seem to work ok, but have really kicked over a rock in trying to find expanded PIDs.

*IF* I Can get it all worked out, proper custom init string, and then the various BMW specific pids, this may work great, but really painful at the moment. I tried with a customized PID list, and only a couple of the sensors returned values, and all of them looked off.

The Torque Pro forums are not great at all, and that is putting it mildly.
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      04-07-2018, 01:09 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPM View Post
Found this page that says that a 'thermal failure' will set a P0420 code. Since you've only seen the high temps in short runs I doubt you've set a code.

http://www.catcoglobal.com/assets/fi...ld%20final.pdf

Also found this:

Typically, converter temperatures will not exceed 1200 F on a properly running engine. Periodic operation above 1600 F can negatively affect the precious metals coating on the substrate, reducing its efficiency. Excessive temperatures can reduce the converter's durability, or - if high enough - destroy the converter's matting or substrate.

on this page:
http://www.walkerexhaust.com/support...er-temperature

Sounds like your temps are at a problematic threshold. I would guess that something like a track day might cook your cats. Occasional spikes that high are probably safe, but I'd check logs running at less than max boost to see if you're in the safe area (didn't go back to see if you'd done that).

Also, if nobody else bites the bullet I might order the Simon 2 cable. What's another $45 at this point...
Wow good info!! Great reading. I have a friend with a 801whp DSM. He stresses tuning based on Afrs and watching EGts when tuning.Its a balance. He has an egt gauge in his car along with an AFR gauge. So the datalogging while driving is key key key with these tunes and even more so custom tuning.
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