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      11-11-2019, 03:38 PM   #1
fox88
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Audio Question Regarding ANC...

I'm having an issue with my audio system I'm trying to iron out. OEM source unit into a JL Audio FiX 82, and running optical out to a VX800/8i and a VX600/1i w/ Audiofrog speakers. Car sounds as I expect, which is amazing. On CD. When using the OEM sat. radio, sound is distorted and sounds awful. Did not sound this way, with the OEM amp. So question is this. Only thing I've been able to come up with, do these cars (mine is a 15 328 Luxury) have Active Noise Cancellation? I know about the pumped in engine noise, which I have turned off via my Carly adapter. But is there something else I'm possibly missing? I really like my SiriusXM and would rather not have to do away with it (I haven't listened to FM since 01 and not going back) but I'm out of options at this point. I'm a JL dealer, and have chatted at length with their tech guys about the situation, and there is really nothing else that makes any sense.

If anyone can shed some light on the subject, I would appreciate it.
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      11-11-2019, 05:41 PM   #2
IK6SPEED
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fox88 View Post
I'm having an issue with my audio system I'm trying to iron out. OEM source unit into a JL Audio FiX 82, and running optical out to a VX800/8i and a VX600/1i w/ Audiofrog speakers. Car sounds as I expect, which is amazing. On CD. When using the OEM sat. radio, sound is distorted and sounds awful. Did not sound this way, with the OEM amp. So question is this. Only thing I've been able to come up with, do these cars (mine is a 15 328 Luxury) have Active Noise Cancellation? I know about the pumped in engine noise, which I have turned off via my Carly adapter. But is there something else I'm possibly missing? I really like my SiriusXM and would rather not have to do away with it (I haven't listened to FM since 01 and not going back) but I'm out of options at this point. I'm a JL dealer, and have chatted at length with their tech guys about the situation, and there is really nothing else that makes any sense.

If anyone can shed some light on the subject, I would appreciate it.
There is no ANC.

Are you NBT or NBT EVO? Assuming NBT if 2015.

Do you have logo of dog (named Sirius) or SXM on satellite icon?
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      11-13-2019, 02:59 PM   #3
fox88
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How do I know? Not sure what the difference is between "NBT" or "NBT EVO". My car is a 7/15 build, but it's not the facelift model, which I think also came out in 7/15.

As far as satellite goes, I have the dog. Woof.
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      11-14-2019, 01:53 AM   #4
IK6SPEED
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fox88 View Post
I'm having an issue with my audio system I'm trying to iron out. OEM source unit into a JL Audio FiX 82, and running optical out to a VX800/8i and a VX600/1i w/ Audiofrog speakers. Car sounds as I expect, which is amazing. On CD. When using the OEM sat. radio, sound is distorted and sounds awful. Did not sound this way, with the OEM amp. So question is this. Only thing I've been able to come up with, do these cars (mine is a 15 328 Luxury) have Active Noise Cancellation? I know about the pumped in engine noise, which I have turned off via my Carly adapter. But is there something else I'm possibly missing? I really like my SiriusXM and would rather not have to do away with it (I haven't listened to FM since 01 and not going back) but I'm out of options at this point. I'm a JL dealer, and have chatted at length with their tech guys about the situation, and there is really nothing else that makes any sense.

If anyone can shed some light on the subject, I would appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fox88 View Post
How do I know? Not sure what the difference is between "NBT" or "NBT EVO". My car is a 7/15 build, but it's not the facelift model, which I think also came out in 7/15.

As far as satellite goes, I have the dog. Woof.
Ok, you have the older Sirius Chipset.

A little history. Satellite Radio was developed in the later part of the 90s by 2 companies, Sirius and XM. They both came on line in the early 00's.

The both had their individual systems. About 10 years in they merged still operating both systems with the same programming on the 2 different systems.

Both initially used mid-90s codec. In fact, the Sirius Codec was developed by ATT/Lucent and was originally for phone lines, lol. Obviously, a lot has changed in 25 years n terms of codecs.

XM decided to update their codec circa 2002-2003 to HE-AAC with SBR when they only had around a million subscribers. Why? Because the code, originally an early offset of MP3s already was 10 years old and didn't sound very good with a low bit rate. They sent out the new firmware via satellite and most of the tuner upgraded successfully. However, as with all firmware updates, some units were bricked.

Sirius had even less subs, but had Howard Stern coming in, so they felt they didn't care about better sounding music, so they decided not to pay the fee for the newer codec HE-AAC codec and to not brick some receivers.

BMW signed an agreement early on with Sirius, so they were using the worse quality Sirius Chipsets/Codec. Furthermore, Sirius, based in NYC, heavily compressed their source material at a little over 300kbps as hard drive storage was overly expensive 20 years ago....much too expensive to keep lossless full bandwidth non-compressed .wav files of all the music their channels offered.

When Sirius and XM merged, everything moved to the Sirius facility in NYC. So then both Sirius and XM shared the same channels and crappy source material.

About 5 years ago they updated their server and music files, but instead of re-recording, they played out their crappy source files and converted them to the new system.

Think of it like this, make a copy of something in a printer. Then copy the copy. Do it 5 times and how does the 5th copy look? Same thing in Audio.

But that's not the end of it. Upon broadcast, the "defective copy" is retransmitted out to your radio using once again, a codec. And remember, Sirius has a crappy 25 year old codec made for telephone transmission by ATT/Lucent.

So by the time the material is reproduced in your car, the 5th version of the copy on their hard drive is copied about 5 more times in the scenario above and sound really crappy.

Now, in 2016 with the NBT EVO, BMW moved to the superior XM Chipset with the better HE-AAC codec and SBR. Still not like an uncompressed audio source (remember the source material on the servers were recorded slightly over 300 kbps). But newer material recorded since then does sounds better.

You have already eliminated ASD as an issue in your car as CDs sound great. But SiriusXM doesn't.

Congratulations....now you can really tell how crappy the old Sirius Chipset and Codec really sound. Many cannot tell as the HK Sound System really isn't that good and disguises the issues. Add Logic 7 with delay and phasing to distort the audio even more to disguise it's inherent issues by artificially changing the soundstage to "fill" the car and make you forget it doesn't sound right. You end up with a mess that doesn't sound anything like the original recording.....or reality.

BTW, Sirius moved all Sirius chipsets contracts from all cars in the 2015-2017 time frame to XM Chipsets so they can change the Sirius service to mobile video in the next decade. And no, it will not be compatible if one only has the CIC or NBT units. At that point, the satellite radio will simply not work. But the change now gives BMW owners with NBT EVO (High 2 or High 3 HUs) the better HE-AAC codec with SBR.

So you are hearing reality. The crappy satellite radio and crappy Sirius codec telephone based 1992 codec.

The only thing you can do is retrofit a NBT EVO unit in with the better quality XM Chipset and codec.. Of course, as stated, that will only get you so far based on the source material limitations.

The other option is to use good streaming sources with good/high bandwidth or your own CDs, as you already have discovered.

But as these satellite codecs were developed 20+ years ago, not to mention the codecs used to record the original material, you are fighting a losing battle with satellite.

Just to clarify before someone else asks, if you have a CIC or NBT radio with the crappy Sirius chipset/codec you have a logo of Sirius the dog in the corner of the CID when you are listening to satellite.

If you have a newer NBT EVO or later system with the superior XM chipset/codec in the unit (roughly 2016 MY, you will have SXM in the corner of the CID instead of Sirius the dog.
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