Should I be able to move my control arm like this?

natesi · 12-20-2018, 11:45 AM

I was poking around when I put my winter tires on.

I noticed that I can move my front driver's control-arm with my bare hands, which is surprising -- and doesn't seem right (I thought bushings were stiffer than this). I already swapped all my other tires, and didn't think to check the control arm on the passenger side, until I was just about done -- so not sure if the other side is the same or not.

I have a 328i x-Drive and have never thought it drove quite "right". Under certain conditions, when I get on/off the throttle, the car starts to "veer" a bit and I have to correct the steering. I notice it at higher speeds. As an example: Say I'm going down a long-ish gradual hill and engine-braking a little, as not to speed too much. Then give it a little gas, then get off the gas again (still going down hill with the car engine braking). When I give it gas the car will want to veer slightly one way, and when I let off, it wants to veer slightly another way. The problem is exaggerated if there are tire grooves in the road, but sometimes it seems to do it when there are no detectable grooves in the road. It might also do this under much harder acceleration and engine braking. It doesn't seem to be consistent though -- so not sure if this behavior is due to the control arm bushing or not. Or maybe some combination of the lose/soft bushing, tire-grooves in the road, and how stiff the tire sidewalls are (seemed worse when I had the garbage SSRs on which were sensitive to tramlining). I think it is unlikely the dealership mechanic will be able to reproduce this "at will" on a quick test drive.

I'll have the dealership look at the control arm bushing next time I'm in for service (unless you guys think that looseness is normal), but I wanted to get some opinions so I can go in more educated (don't always trust the dealership).

Thanks,

-Nathan

sspade · 12-20-2018, 11:59 AM

How many miles on car?

I dont like the look of that play and don't believe its normal. Bushing is probably shot.

Keep us posted on what dealer says.

natesi · 12-20-2018, 01:01 PM

Only about 21K miles. It's a 2016. It's probably been like this since new.

sspade · 12-20-2018, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natesi

Only about 21K miles. It's a 2016. It's probably been like this since new.

Mine definitely dont do that.

2014 with 65k.

Original arms.

I wouldn't worry, wont cost you to replace and I would honestly be shocked if they say thats normal?

I hope someone else chimes in to confirm. I could be crazy...

Keep us posted on what part numbers are replaced. Curious to see if they replace the whole arm (my guess) or just the bushing.

kingmonkey8 · 12-20-2018, 06:32 PM

Doesn't look right to me. The bushing should be stiff and you shouldn't be able to twist it side ways like that.
Grab the tyre and check for vertical and horizontal play. At 21k the suspension should be tight with no movement.
Check the bushing for any cracks and check against the passenger side to see if it's the same.

Wires · 12-20-2018, 07:28 PM

Like others have said, the bushings are shot. It should be quite rigid, and non-moveable by hand.

DarkStarBimmer · 12-21-2018, 09:45 AM

aren't those bushings press fit in? that shouldn't have any play at all.

jimbobiggens · 12-21-2018, 10:11 AM

There should be NO play like that. No doubt about it, that needs fixing.

natesi · 12-21-2018, 10:57 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll keep you posted once I take it in.

natesi · 01-17-2019, 01:37 PM

The car seems to have gotten a LOT worse in the last two weeks -- in regards to how it handles wind gusts and road grooves. It's almost like I'm on super over-inflated tires, but I've tried a wide range of tire pressures and it doesn't help. So, I took it to the dealer before the next service interval.

The dealership said all that play in the bushing is NORMAL -- because I "twisted" the forward control arm, rather than moved it back and forth, horizontally. They said their shop foreman even looked at it. Of course, they road tested it, and said everything was fine. And admittedly, on the way down, and back, it did feel better (although not great). Maybe the wind has to hit it just right, or something (even if not a strong wind).

They suggested a $200 alignment, but the car is only 2 years old and I've had 3 alignments already (from an indie shop I trust) -- because it keeps driving like shit. Actually, it's never been quite "right", to me. And as mentioned in the original post, I already ditched the shitty runflats (which had 20K of tread left on them).

I don't know. I guess I can try some suspension mods, like KW Street Comfort coil-overs -- in the future. Maybe all this is due to the shitty / floaty base suspension, with x-drive.

Only other thing I can think of us that I'm rotating my tires front to back. I think I'm going to stop doing that, as the wear patterns may be interfering with handling as well. I just got new Pirellis this summer (regular go-flats) -- which helped. But the car still doesn't seem right -- and is still too susceptible to wind, tire-ruts, pavement grooves, and other road imperfections. And as mentioned above, the car still "wanders" a hair, on/off throttle, at freeway speeds.

Cherry2.0 · 01-17-2019, 02:10 PM

I can't think of a single suspension part that should move that easy.

Is it possible for you go to the dealership and see if they will let you test drive a used 328? I'm sure they have plenty of 2015-2016 lease returns. This way, you can do a direct comparison between yours and another.

Wgosma · 01-17-2019, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natesi

The car seems to have gotten a LOT worse in the last two weeks -- in regards to how it handles wind gusts and road grooves. It's almost like I'm on super over-inflated tires, but I've tried a wide range of tire pressures and it doesn't help. So, I took it to the dealer before the next service interval.

The dealership said all that play in the bushing is NORMAL -- because I "twisted" the forward control arm, rather than moved it back and forth, horizontally. They said their shop foreman even looked at it. Of course, they road tested it, and said everything was fine. And admittedly, on the way down, and back, it did feel better (although not great). Maybe the wind has to hit it just right, or something (even if not a strong wind).

They suggested a $200 alignment, but the car is only 2 years old and I've had 3 alignments already (from an indie shop I trust) -- because it keeps driving like shit. Actually, it's never been quite "right", to me. And as mentioned in the original post, I already ditched the shitty runflats (which had 20K of tread left on them).

I don't know. I guess I can try some suspension mods, like KW Street Comfort coil-overs -- in the future. Maybe all this is due to the shitty / floaty base suspension, with x-drive.

Only other thing I can think of us that I'm rotating my tires front to back. I think I'm going to stop doing that, as the wear patterns may be interfering with handling as well. I just got new Pirellis this summer (regular go-flats) -- which helped. But the car still doesn't seem right -- and is still too susceptible to wind, tire-ruts, pavement grooves, and other road imperfections. And as mentioned above, the car still "wanders" a hair, on/off throttle, at freeway speeds.

I have always rotated tires front/back....the key is doing it consistently at relatively short intervals ~ 5-7 K miles.

You've had a LOT of alignments, egads- are the shops finding it out of whack each time? This is very unusual- in my 15+ years of Bimmer ownership I've only had the cars aligned after complete suspension refurb-

natesi · 01-17-2019, 06:24 PM

Thanks guys.

They mentioned giving me a 3 series loaner, but all they have are RWD models and neither of us thought that was apples-to-apples enough. I *did* get a 320i loaner once though -- RWD, with the m-sport suspension -- and it was like a whole different car. Way more fun, for sure. The loaner definitely had an alignment issue though -- as the outer areas of the front tires were totally bald and it was a bit twitchy going down the freeway -- but not in the same way as mine.

Maybe next time I'm in I can talk them into letting me take one of the used xdrives for a spin -- that's a good idea.

I will say, they were very nice, and listened attentively -- the service adviser rocked and it was quite clear he understood what I was saying -- so communication and listening skills were excellent. The other good news is that since it takes me an hour to get to the dealership, they offered to do my oil change 3100 miles early -- as well as the brake fluid flush. So that was really cool.

I'm decent about rotating the tires. The winter tires hardly get any miles on them between seasons -- maybe 3-4K. I can't visually see a wear pattern in them. My all season tires only get rotated once a year though and when I had the run flats I could tell visually which tire was on which wheel -- although it wasn't a severe wear pattern. But probably enough to matter.

In regards to the alignment (LONG STORY): The car was screwed-up when I bought it. I took it to an indie within a couple months of buying it new. I just wanted them to check it, but they misunderstood and aligned it. Anyway, the car drove WAY better after that. Then seemed to degrade. I had them check it once, and it was fine (no charge). Then I went up to the mountain, about a year later, (skiing) and hit a massive pot hole. Car didn't seem affected, but still not driving great, so had them recheck it again, and they did an alignment. Seemed "OK-ISH" (not great) again. Then I put my all seasons back on and the car was all over the fucking road -- like scary to drive. The tire-place did some sort of criss-cross tire rotation. I undid everything and put the tires back in their original locations, which helped, but the car was still very unstable on the freeway. I figured it was mostly the tires, but I should get the alignment checked before dishing out money on new tires.

So, I took it to another alignment shop (closer to where I had moved) and they did a poor alignment. Except I didn't know this yet -- and the car still drove like crap. So, I figured, the problem was mostly the tires (and it still was) -- and ditched the OEM runflats. New tires helped, but I could tell there was still an issue. So... I drove an hour and a half -- down the my favorite alignment shop -- and they aligned it correctly. The car was much improved -- especially for the first month, it seemed. But, overall, it still feels like something is "off". The car is STILL too sensitive to tire ruts, wind gusts, and grooved pavement, etc. And then there's the SLIGHT wandering issue on/off throttle, which has always been there -- although it is very subtle most of the time.

In total, that was 4 alignments -- but since one was "bad", I didn't count it -- hence I said 3 alignments, in the original post. And the 3rd alignment probably wasn't necessary -- it was most the shitty run flats causing most of the problem. And, of course, the 4th alignment was just to fix the erroneous 3rd alignment.

Yeah -- I'm not a mechanic, but I personally don't think bushings should be that loose either. I noticed there are aftermarket options available, so maybe at some point I'll switch to that and see if it helps. But I guess stiffer bushings transmit more noise and harshness too, so that would be a significant drawback.

Wgosma · 01-17-2019, 06:47 PM

Bit of an ordeal with your car- at only 21K miles it's near impossible to believe the control arm or thrust arm bushings are excessively worn - typically those fluid filled bushings will be good for 90-120K+ miles. The metal ball joints on the other end of the arms could be worn, but again they ought to last to 100K.

As you know, tire condition can have huge impact on steering, tracking and handling- sounds like you've been there on the tire thing; that is always the first place to look when car does not track properly.

Good luck going forward/Bill

Big_CG · 05-30-2019, 02:27 PM

Any update on this?

My bushings deflect in a similar fashion to the video

natesi · 05-30-2019, 02:31 PM

See comment 10 -- they said it is normal.

Zanity · 05-30-2019, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natesi

The dealership said all that play in the bushing is NORMAL.

sigh, as long as your car is drivable, it's normal to a dealer

natesi · 05-30-2019, 03:25 PM

If anyone has a similar issue and swaps it out for a replacement, please update with the results!

MacklinUSOB · 05-30-2019, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natesi

If anyone has a similar issue and swaps it out for a replacement, please update with the results!

Do you get any shimmy or vibration when you engage the brakes hard from a high speed? The higher the speed, the more likely you'll find it.

This is one of the classic tension strut bushing failure tells. I would say yours moved around less than mine did at 75k, but not by much.

Have you looked over the ball joints on the lower control arm and tie rod end? I don't expect any of these parts to wear out so early but pot holes throw everything into question. Is there a measurable ride height difference left to right?

A snapshot of your current alignment if you have it can't hurt either.

Mr Podman · 05-30-2019, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natesi

See comment 10 -- they said it is normal.

Doesn't look normal to me.

Does the one on the other side of the car move like that too? (other side of the car from the one you recorded)

podman

natesi · 05-30-2019, 06:54 PM

A the time I made the video, I only checked one side.

Quote:

I already swapped all my other tires, and didn't think to check the control arm on the passenger side, until I was just about done -- so not sure if the other side is the same or not.

But in Feb, when I put my all-season tires on, I think I checked the other side and it was the same.

obert · 05-30-2019, 09:32 PM

I was told that you can tell that the busing’s are worn buy a leak......but you don’t have that and when you come to a stop your car will kind of rock front to back a little if that makes since?

My car had the rocking motion going on when I came to a stop so I replaced mine and no more rocking.

12-20-2018, 11:45 AM	#1
natesi Lieutenant 204 Rep 499 Posts Drives: F30 Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: PNW iTrader: (0)	Should I be able to move my control arm like this? I was poking around when I put my winter tires on. I noticed that I can move my front driver's control-arm with my bare hands, which is surprising -- and doesn't seem right (I thought bushings were stiffer than this). I already swapped all my other tires, and didn't think to check the control arm on the passenger side, until I was just about done -- so not sure if the other side is the same or not. I have a 328i x-Drive and have never thought it drove quite "right". Under certain conditions, when I get on/off the throttle, the car starts to "veer" a bit and I have to correct the steering. I notice it at higher speeds. As an example: Say I'm going down a long-ish gradual hill and engine-braking a little, as not to speed too much. Then give it a little gas, then get off the gas again (still going down hill with the car engine braking). When I give it gas the car will want to veer slightly one way, and when I let off, it wants to veer slightly another way. The problem is exaggerated if there are tire grooves in the road, but sometimes it seems to do it when there are no detectable grooves in the road. It might also do this under much harder acceleration and engine braking. It doesn't seem to be consistent though -- so not sure if this behavior is due to the control arm bushing or not. Or maybe some combination of the lose/soft bushing, tire-grooves in the road, and how stiff the tire sidewalls are (seemed worse when I had the garbage SSRs on which were sensitive to tramlining). I think it is unlikely the dealership mechanic will be able to reproduce this "at will" on a quick test drive. I'll have the dealership look at the control arm bushing next time I'm in for service (unless you guys think that looseness is normal), but I wanted to get some opinions so I can go in more educated (don't always trust the dealership). Thanks, -Nathan Last edited by natesi; 12-20-2018 at 01:27 PM..
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12-20-2018, 11:59 AM	#2
sspade Major General 2465 Rep 5,456 Posts Drives: F30 Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Stevenson, WA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2016 BMW 320i [7.87] 2014 BMW 328i [6.83]	How many miles on car? I dont like the look of that play and don't believe its normal. Bushing is probably shot. Keep us posted on what dealer says.
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12-20-2018, 01:01 PM	#3
natesi Lieutenant 204 Rep 499 Posts Drives: F30 Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: PNW iTrader: (0)	Only about 21K miles. It's a 2016. It's probably been like this since new.
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12-20-2018, 06:32 PM	#5
kingmonkey8 Lieutenant 81 Rep 552 Posts Drives: BMW 428i Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Doesn't look right to me. The bushing should be stiff and you shouldn't be able to twist it side ways like that. Grab the tyre and check for vertical and horizontal play. At 21k the suspension should be tight with no movement. Check the bushing for any cracks and check against the passenger side to see if it's the same.
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12-20-2018, 07:28 PM	#6
Wires Brigadier General 1646 Rep 4,876 Posts Drives: 2016 340i xDrive Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Calgary iTrader: (0)	Like others have said, the bushings are shot. It should be quite rigid, and non-moveable by hand.
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12-21-2018, 09:45 AM	#7
DarkStarBimmer Colonol Forbin 208 Rep 338 Posts Drives: 17' BSM 330i xDrive Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Phoenix, Arizona iTrader: (0) Garage List 2017 330i [0.00]	aren't those bushings press fit in? that shouldn't have any play at all.
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12-21-2018, 10:11 AM	#8
jimbobiggens Lieutenant 839 Rep 440 Posts Drives: 2013 335i xDrive Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: jackson tn iTrader: (0) Garage List 2013 335i xDrive [0.00]	There should be NO play like that. No doubt about it, that needs fixing. __________________ I'm not completely useless, I can be used as a bad example.
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12-21-2018, 10:57 PM	#9
natesi Lieutenant 204 Rep 499 Posts Drives: F30 Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: PNW iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll keep you posted once I take it in.
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01-17-2019, 01:37 PM	#10
natesi Lieutenant 204 Rep 499 Posts Drives: F30 Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: PNW iTrader: (0)	The car seems to have gotten a LOT worse in the last two weeks -- in regards to how it handles wind gusts and road grooves. It's almost like I'm on super over-inflated tires, but I've tried a wide range of tire pressures and it doesn't help. So, I took it to the dealer before the next service interval. The dealership said all that play in the bushing is NORMAL -- because I "twisted" the forward control arm, rather than moved it back and forth, horizontally. They said their shop foreman even looked at it. Of course, they road tested it, and said everything was fine. And admittedly, on the way down, and back, it did feel better (although not great). Maybe the wind has to hit it just right, or something (even if not a strong wind). They suggested a $200 alignment, but the car is only 2 years old and I've had 3 alignments already (from an indie shop I trust) -- because it keeps driving like shit. Actually, it's never been quite "right", to me. And as mentioned in the original post, I already ditched the shitty runflats (which had 20K of tread left on them). I don't know. I guess I can try some suspension mods, like KW Street Comfort coil-overs -- in the future. Maybe all this is due to the shitty / floaty base suspension, with x-drive. Only other thing I can think of us that I'm rotating my tires front to back. I think I'm going to stop doing that, as the wear patterns may be interfering with handling as well. I just got new Pirellis this summer (regular go-flats) -- which helped. But the car still doesn't seem right -- and is still too susceptible to wind, tire-ruts, pavement grooves, and other road imperfections. And as mentioned above, the car still "wanders" a hair, on/off throttle, at freeway speeds.
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01-17-2019, 02:10 PM	#11
Cherry2.0 Private 78 Rep 89 Posts Drives: 2015 328xi Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	I can't think of a single suspension part that should move that easy. Is it possible for you go to the dealership and see if they will let you test drive a used 328? I'm sure they have plenty of 2015-2016 lease returns. This way, you can do a direct comparison between yours and another.
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01-17-2019, 06:24 PM	#13
natesi Lieutenant 204 Rep 499 Posts Drives: F30 Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: PNW iTrader: (0)	Thanks guys. They mentioned giving me a 3 series loaner, but all they have are RWD models and neither of us thought that was apples-to-apples enough. I did get a 320i loaner once though -- RWD, with the m-sport suspension -- and it was like a whole different car. Way more fun, for sure. The loaner definitely had an alignment issue though -- as the outer areas of the front tires were totally bald and it was a bit twitchy going down the freeway -- but not in the same way as mine. Maybe next time I'm in I can talk them into letting me take one of the used xdrives for a spin -- that's a good idea. I will say, they were very nice, and listened attentively -- the service adviser rocked and it was quite clear he understood what I was saying -- so communication and listening skills were excellent. The other good news is that since it takes me an hour to get to the dealership, they offered to do my oil change 3100 miles early -- as well as the brake fluid flush. So that was really cool. I'm decent about rotating the tires. The winter tires hardly get any miles on them between seasons -- maybe 3-4K. I can't visually see a wear pattern in them. My all season tires only get rotated once a year though and when I had the run flats I could tell visually which tire was on which wheel -- although it wasn't a severe wear pattern. But probably enough to matter. In regards to the alignment (LONG STORY): The car was screwed-up when I bought it. I took it to an indie within a couple months of buying it new. I just wanted them to check it, but they misunderstood and aligned it. Anyway, the car drove WAY better after that. Then seemed to degrade. I had them check it once, and it was fine (no charge). Then I went up to the mountain, about a year later, (skiing) and hit a massive pot hole. Car didn't seem affected, but still not driving great, so had them recheck it again, and they did an alignment. Seemed "OK-ISH" (not great) again. Then I put my all seasons back on and the car was all over the fucking road -- like scary to drive. The tire-place did some sort of criss-cross tire rotation. I undid everything and put the tires back in their original locations, which helped, but the car was still very unstable on the freeway. I figured it was mostly the tires, but I should get the alignment checked before dishing out money on new tires. So, I took it to another alignment shop (closer to where I had moved) and they did a poor alignment. Except I didn't know this yet -- and the car still drove like crap. So, I figured, the problem was mostly the tires (and it still was) -- and ditched the OEM runflats. New tires helped, but I could tell there was still an issue. So... I drove an hour and a half -- down the my favorite alignment shop -- and they aligned it correctly. The car was much improved -- especially for the first month, it seemed. But, overall, it still feels like something is "off". The car is STILL too sensitive to tire ruts, wind gusts, and grooved pavement, etc. And then there's the SLIGHT wandering issue on/off throttle, which has always been there -- although it is very subtle most of the time. In total, that was 4 alignments -- but since one was "bad", I didn't count it -- hence I said 3 alignments, in the original post. And the 3rd alignment probably wasn't necessary -- it was most the shitty run flats causing most of the problem. And, of course, the 4th alignment was just to fix the erroneous 3rd alignment. Yeah -- I'm not a mechanic, but I personally don't think bushings should be that loose either. I noticed there are aftermarket options available, so maybe at some point I'll switch to that and see if it helps. But I guess stiffer bushings transmit more noise and harshness too, so that would be a significant drawback. Last edited by natesi; 01-17-2019 at 06:30 PM..
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01-17-2019, 06:47 PM	#14
Wgosma Lieutenant Colonel 806 Rep 1,905 Posts Drives: 2012 F25 X3 28i (N52) Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Northern Nevada iTrader: (0)	Bit of an ordeal with your car- at only 21K miles it's near impossible to believe the control arm or thrust arm bushings are excessively worn - typically those fluid filled bushings will be good for 90-120K+ miles. The metal ball joints on the other end of the arms could be worn, but again they ought to last to 100K. As you know, tire condition can have huge impact on steering, tracking and handling- sounds like you've been there on the tire thing; that is always the first place to look when car does not track properly. Good luck going forward/Bill
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05-30-2019, 02:27 PM	#15
Big_CG Major 185 Rep 1,482 Posts Drives: 2020 X5 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: SWFL iTrader: (8)	Any update on this? My bushings deflect in a similar fashion to the video
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05-30-2019, 02:31 PM	#16
natesi Lieutenant 204 Rep 499 Posts Drives: F30 Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: PNW iTrader: (0)	See comment 10 -- they said it is normal.
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05-30-2019, 03:25 PM	#18
natesi Lieutenant 204 Rep 499 Posts Drives: F30 Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: PNW iTrader: (0)	If anyone has a similar issue and swaps it out for a replacement, please update with the results!
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05-30-2019, 09:32 PM	#22
obert Brigadier General 1781 Rep 4,456 Posts Drives: 2013 328i Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Seattle Wa iTrader: (49)	I was told that you can tell that the busing’s are worn buy a leak......but you don’t have that and when you come to a stop your car will kind of rock front to back a little if that makes since? My car had the rocking motion going on when I came to a stop so I replaced mine and no more rocking.
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