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      01-30-2020, 08:25 PM   #1
///Madgreek1
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B58 cylinder scoring/injector failure <any and all experiences>

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Good evening,

I am writing to try to get info, and outcomes from anyone who.may have experienced the same issue I am having. Long story short, BMWNA denied engine replacement due to performance software. I am looking for any documented cases I can provide as evidence, especially if it resulted in engine replacement by BMW.

2016 340i rwd at 42k
Dinan intake, VRSF downpipe, remus exhaust, bm3 stage 2

Cylinder misfire, scoring on cylinder walls (#6)

Thanks for any help!
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      01-30-2020, 09:06 PM   #2
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What exactly do you expect to achieve here? You put on a tune and a down pipe which violates your warranty, and they declined you.

That is as cut and dry as you can possibly get. You need to pay to play, and there is always a risk. Was the scoring related to the tune? Probably not, but they have ZERO reason to entertain that idea.
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      01-30-2020, 10:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
What exactly do you expect to achieve here? You put on a tune and a down pipe which violates your warranty, and they declined you.

That is as cut and dry as you can possibly get. You need to pay to play, and there is always a risk. Was the scoring related to the tune? Probably not, but they have ZERO reason to entertain that idea.
You know, I'm already aware of the downsides and the possibility that my efforts go nowhere, and you re-iterating an obvious possible outcome is not what was asked for here...any help or personal experience with the listed problem would be appreciated, but negativity can get checked at the door....thanks!
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      01-31-2020, 01:29 AM   #4
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Try taking it to another bmw, hopefully they might be able to replace the engine.
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      01-31-2020, 08:31 AM   #5
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Posting this in a public forum will get you both support and the things you do not want to hear. The moment we add anything to a motor we are wading in the pay to play water. Chill out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Madgreek1 View Post
You know, I'm already aware of the downsides and the possibility that my efforts go nowhere, and you re-iterating an obvious possible outcome is not what was asked for here...any help or personal experience with the listed problem would be appreciated, but negativity can get checked at the door....thanks!
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      01-31-2020, 09:16 AM   #6
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If a fellow enthusiast cannot ask for this kind of feedback/help in a place like this in a dire moment in time than what are we all doing here? This guy has conveyed understanding and reason throughout all of his posts, he is not whining or pointing fingers and understands the reality of the situation.

At the same time, he had a widely used tune on his car for only 4000 miles and injector failure/scoring is something we have seen on b58s running bone stock.

If you don't have something to contribute than keep your keystrokes to yourself and move on while also crossing your fingers that you never find yourself in a situation like this.
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      01-31-2020, 10:47 AM   #7
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Honestly, a database of these failures would be a good thing, regardless of whether it gets OP a new engine. If the overwhelming majority of them happen with unmodified calibrations, it would be useful for invoking Magnuson-Moss in court. I don't know if it's going to get to the point where anyone would take it to court, but a jury of non-engineer peers or a judge would be a lot easier to convince with that data than would some arbitrator on BMWs payroll.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

I'm interested to see the split though.
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      01-31-2020, 11:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kilogram View Post
Honestly, a database of these failures would be a good thing, regardless of whether it gets OP a new engine. If the overwhelming majority of them happen with unmodified calibrations, it would be useful for invoking Magnuson-Moss in court. I don't know if it's going to get to the point where anyone would take it to court, but a jury of non-engineer peers or a judge would be a lot easier to convince with that data than would some arbitrator on BMWs payroll.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

I'm interested to see the split though.

That's a great idea, as this seems to be an emerging issue.on some b58s. If the failure on my engine was caused by a known issue I intend to push it as far as I need to hold BMW accountable. That being said I obviously understand it may be all for naught and I knew that when I started modding.
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      01-31-2020, 12:24 PM   #9
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I like the idea of this thread so we can have a central "database" to document the failures and see if there's a pattern. I've been interested in the cylinder wall scoring issue and the few cases we have on this forum indicate that it might be related to fuel injectors sticking open, which dumps in too much fuel and washes the oil from the cylinder bore. Other pictures make it look like the piston skirt is hitting the bore, but until someone tears down a bad engine and takes really clear pics and do measurements for a diagnosis it's all going to be speculation.... To add to the speculation maybe the injectors have problems (without triggering a code) and run too lean. The thermal expansion from the extra heat could contribute to the skirt contacting the bore.

The B58TU received an updated fueling system and I recall reading the wire arc spray thickness was increased too, but I'll have to dig to find the source. There was also a change to the cylinder bore honing process to achieve optimal bore shape during operation:

"The cylindrical bore hole of a combustion engine becomes deformed during the operating condition by thermal loads. Form honing allows this deformation to be achieved in production, so that there is an almost cylindrical shape in the operating condition. This has a positive effect on the emissions quality, oil and fuel consumption, as well as output and wear."

So maybe part of the issue is excessive "warping" when the engine is under load? The link below has a lot of good information explaining the differences between the B58 and B58TU

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...4&d=1565745080

Last edited by StannisBaratheon; 01-31-2020 at 12:35 PM..
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      01-31-2020, 12:50 PM   #10
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What sort of engine air filter? I'd look there first.

What oil were you running?
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      01-31-2020, 12:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
What sort of engine air filter? I'd look there first.

What oil were you running?
OEM oil well below change interval and a dinan filter (part of the dinan intake system installed on my car)
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      01-31-2020, 01:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bacon_45 View Post
Try taking it to another bmw, hopefully they might be able to replace the engine.
That won't work. A PUMA case was most likely opened for engine failure (these are rare). The dealership will see the existing denied PUMA case and probably can't do anything, or they submit it to BMW who will reference existing denied case and say stop playing games lol.
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      01-31-2020, 01:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Newt View Post
That won't work. A PUMA case was most likely opened for engine failure (these are rare). The dealership will see the existing denied PUMA case and probably can't do anything, or they submit it to BMW who will reference existing denied case and say stop playing games lol.
Fact that BMWNA is involved as well... will flag right away.


Air filter question is an interesting one, iirc the OP said he had a fault code or something once when the filter wasnt installed correctly, i would have though in the short space of time it would of struggled to in hail some partials to cause damage. I know people run some cars/turbo set ups with no filters ( i dont get it) but are these new sprayed bores acceptable to damage through dirt really easy?
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      01-31-2020, 08:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Madgreek1 View Post
You know, I'm already aware of the downsides and the possibility that my efforts go nowhere, and you re-iterating an obvious possible outcome is not what was asked for here...any help or personal experience with the listed problem would be appreciated, but negativity can get checked at the door....thanks!
Still confused. What sort of personal outcomes are you looking for? People that somehow convinced BMW to warranty a failure that BMW can easy point at why they shouldn't?

Not trying to be a d*ck here, but your question is a serious WTF. Good luck OP. Your claim has already been flagging in the BMW warranty system and EVERY dealership will give you the same answer.
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      01-31-2020, 09:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
Still confused. What sort of personal outcomes are you looking for? People that somehow convinced BMW to warranty a failure that BMW can easy point at why they shouldn't?

Not trying to be a d*ck here, but your question is a serious WTF. Good luck OP. Your claim has already been flagging in the BMW warranty system and EVERY dealership will give you the same answer.
If you've read my post and the subsequent responses you would see that I have acknowledged multiple times that I understand the reality of the situation and that I very well may be stuck dealing with it myself. That being said, I do NOT believe what I have done to my car caused the failure in question and I DO believe there are other cases where the same thing happened to a completely stock vehicle. Now just for a moment, pretend that you are not a proud keyboard warrior and imagine yourself in such a predicament. Would you not wish to exercise your rights as a consumer to the fullest extent of the law? Maybe you are just independently wealthy and light your cigars with $100 bills without care or consequence, but unfortunately that is not my reality. While I am perfectly.content "paying to play", I do not just leave money on the table if there is an opportunity to have my issues resolved. Also for the record I at no point said that I was going to try to go to a different dealer. I am well aware that my warranty status has been flagged and even if i found a bmw dealership on Mars, it would make no difference. Not trying to be a dick though
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      02-01-2020, 12:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Madgreek1 View Post
You know, I'm already aware of the downsides and the possibility that my efforts go nowhere, and you re-iterating an obvious possible outcome is not what was asked for here...any help or personal experience with the listed problem would be appreciated, but negativity can get checked at the door....thanks!
Still confused. What sort of personal outcomes are you looking for? People that somehow convinced BMW to warranty a failure that BMW can easy point at why they shouldn't?

Not trying to be a d*ck here, but your question is a serious WTF. Good luck OP. Your claim has already been flagging in the BMW warranty system and EVERY dealership will give you the same answer.
Go away! No one wants to read your shitty posts!


A quick search reveals a recent stage 2 flash tune, aftermarket plugs gapped to non oem specs leading to a plug failure and catastrophic engine failure. BMW replaced this engine under warranty. The thread celebrates the engine swap! Your out of line and your spirit is out of sync with what we are doing here.

Stop being a douche!
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      02-01-2020, 12:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by les anderson View Post

"...A quick search reveals a recent stage 2 flash tune, aftermarket plugs gapped to non oem specs leading to a plug failure and catastrophic engine failure. BMW replaced this engine under warranty. The thread celebrates the engine swap!..."
I have read this thread as well. I PM'd the OP to get more info from him about what the dealer said, whether they could see the tune, etc. I'm curious to hear as they seemed to have no problem replacing the engine in his case.
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      02-01-2020, 02:40 AM   #18
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There has been many cases with this issue bone stock and tuned.
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      02-01-2020, 05:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PURE340i View Post
There has been many cases with this issue bone stock and tuned.
Wow. Such documentation.
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      02-01-2020, 05:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by les anderson View Post
Stop being a douche!
That's asking a lot from a BMW forum
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      02-01-2020, 06:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
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that's asking a lot from a bmw forum
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      02-01-2020, 11:35 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyfx View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PURE340i View Post
There has been many cases with this issue bone stock and tuned.
Wow. Such documentation.
Sorry I'm not BMWNA to pull up this "documentation" you're after. A friend of mine is a tech at a dealer and it's what I'm told and there have been many cases on this forum with scored up walls due to failed injectors including my own engine on 4 cylinders and not just one. The first one noted occurred in 2016 and it was not flashed..... JB4 only + meth and luckily the dealer covered it. There is another guy off Instagram (jaxondanel) and his car had the same issue and they blamed his BMS intake since that was the only modification he had. I'm not going to dig deep into which users and people have suffered with this issue.... I'm living proof with 4 scored up walls with 4 failed injectors.

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