[Eddamoo]

So sorry to hear this has happened.

Same happened to my rents at a similar age and 30 ish years on are still very much together.

I would probably inform the Swedish guy that the entire evidence is ready to send to his wife and whole social media gathering at the touch of a button

[M33DLO]

Originally Posted by Sennen

I am very surprised in a good way however at the compassion shown to the female party in this awful situation.

Would a similar thread on Mumsnet or similar garner the same response in showing compassion and forgiveness if the transgressor was male........ I very much doubt it.

Feck!!! Pitch forks and death threats more like.!

[rokut]

Right. 1.5 months on from my original post. Just over 2 months since everything blew up. Just wanted to note where I'm at, and again thank everyone who has been in touch. I can't say I am surprised by the support, because I knew when posting there are some brilliant people on here, but the thought and care has been incredible, so thank you again.

Headlines: we're still together. The girls are nowhere near as aware/ affected by it all, and are enjoying plenty of time with family on the weekends and getting on great with their school routine. I am not as angry in emotion, or as obsessive in thought as I was and can go a good few hours/ half-day without even thinking about what has happened.
I've got a really good psych therapist at a private clinic not too far outside Windsor, paid for by my companies Private Healthcare, and I am now three sessions into that and even though weird to say, I am 'enjoying' it. It's freeing, pragmatic, practical and really lets me mull things over and reach my own answers and conclusions with a helping hand.
My working days are back to being productive rather than annihilated by unwanted thoughts creeping in. And I have managed to get a job move during it all too and will be moving into my company's sales team (currently in Marketing) by the start of December. Not a knee jerk btw, always been in my career plan, just funny timing.

I am blaming myself less. I am more pragmatic and less angry/ frustrated. I am more emotional (sadness) and able to cry than I have been for a very long while, and actually let this wash over me much more than I thought I would.

So, what's the catch? My wife is in a very bad place. Still on her meds, not suicidal - but generally very frayed around the edges. Knackered. Drinking, disordered eating, over exercising and focusing on her work which is one of two things she feels generally in 'control' of. The other being her eating disorder, which she is aware controls her, but she falls into the false sense of security it gives when everything else feels out of control.

We go through big ups and downs, in generally a 48hr pattern - sometimes euphorically happy with each other, physically close, emotionally attached, positive etc. But within a couple of days there is nearly always a fall down the other side into a pit where we find ourselves without trying too hard. I see it, she sees it, we are doing what we can to level it off but absolutely its still a bit crazy.

She needs help. She knows it. But she is terrified about her mental state if she reaches out again, the therapist doesn't understand her again, and there isn't much 'helping' rather than bringing up old traumas. I see what she's saying. She doesn't have the energy or the mental bandwidth than to do the basics right now. It's not an excuse, because the longer it goes on the closer it must get to taking actions on her behalf but against her wishes. I know this is a last resort, but if the destructive behaviour continues there may not be much else to do. We shall see.

Around two weeks ago I found further messages from an ex-colleague of hers on LinkedIn, very one-sided, but absolutely focused on wanting her/ sex/ even a torso photo of him sent to her. (on LinkedIn! lol). No real replies encouraging or enjoying what he was doing from my wife, but I absolutely told her that to a guy - if you're not pushing back on that or blanking him that you have left the door open to more.
What does this tell me? Her low self-esteem drives a need to be wanted, to be a focus, even when it's a 'negative' one. Her want to look a certain way, be seen a certain way by people who don't know her like I do (issues and all) and her encouraging/ supportive/ happy/ flirty ways of communicating mean that it's another disaster waiting to happen.
So as you can imagine we have spent a long time talking around inappropriate relationships and communication and the need to handle them so they don't go too far. There may well be others but I have to admit there isn't too much evidence to suggest so. Could she have done it/ things before? Yep. And this brings me onto my final portion of this post... where it leaves me.

Honestly, I still love the girl. I still want to find a path that we can both tread and make life consistently meaningful and worth the work. I want to be with her for me, for us and for the girls. BUT, and this is a big BUT, I now have a much more balanced emotional response to the thought that maybe this can't work and it may never actually get better. This is a continuation, to some extent, of what I have known for 9 years. In that time I have always felt I was the weak link - angry, pissy, cold, caused her hurt with another female early on (only messaging, on work server, nothing to the level that she has now done). But now I see that actually she is just a victim creating more victims. And I am one of them, unfortunately the girls are too. As people say - 'hurt people hurt people'.
So I am a long way away from giving in or giving up. A long way away from running away. But for the first time I feel at ease with the thought that I may not be able to help turn this around and that I may need to find a new way of living my life.

Anyway, thank you for reading, thank you for your support and I apologise if this is something you didn't need to know. I hope it might give some insight or even help for anyone else that might be going through something similar. If not then it's a good release for me.

Cheers, and here's to better times! Rich

[ciscopete822]

Originally Posted by rokut

Cheers, and here's to better times! Rich

You have come a long way bud but looks like you are slowly getting your grip back. It was very comforting to read and I will say , deep inside , you are a very good person , your level of understanding and compassion is second to none.

Well done and please keep us updated on your progress!

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by ciscopete822

You have come a long way bud but looks like you are slowly getting your grip back. It was very comforting to read and I will say , deep inside , you are a very good person , your level of understanding and compassion is second to none.

Well done and please keep us updated on your progress!

Can't add much more than this or word it any better.

Keep a level head rokut

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

It sounds like you’re making good progress. I hope you can convince your wife to seek the help she needs too.

If she hasn’t clicked with the therapist, try another one. Or even try for proper clinical psychology help through the NHS. Someone more qualified than a therapist might tread more carefully, have more skills and different approaches if she is not immediately receptive to it. The eating disorder and other things that go with it might qualify her for that.

She will have to relive old traumas and the past though, that’s what’s made her the person she is. There’s no magic fix and a few words for the present without it.

I hope you both find what you need to make it work and I admire the effort that you’re making.

[Cootie]

Originally Posted by rokut

Right. 1.5 months on from my original post. Just over 2 months since everything blew up. Just wanted to note where I'm at, and again thank everyone who has been in touch. I can't say I am surprised by the support, because I knew when posting there are some brilliant people on here, but the thought and care has been incredible, so thank you again.

Headlines: we're still together. The girls are nowhere near as aware/ affected by it all, and are enjoying plenty of time with family on the weekends and getting on great with their school routine. I am not as angry in emotion, or as obsessive in thought as I was and can go a good few hours/ half-day without even thinking about what has happened.
I've got a really good psych therapist at a private clinic not too far outside Windsor, paid for by my companies Private Healthcare, and I am now three sessions into that and even though weird to say, I am 'enjoying' it. It's freeing, pragmatic, practical and really lets me mull things over and reach my own answers and conclusions with a helping hand.
My working days are back to being productive rather than annihilated by unwanted thoughts creeping in. And I have managed to get a job move during it all too and will be moving into my company's sales team (currently in Marketing) by the start of December. Not a knee jerk btw, always been in my career plan, just funny timing.

I am blaming myself less. I am more pragmatic and less angry/ frustrated. I am more emotional (sadness) and able to cry than I have been for a very long while, and actually let this wash over me much more than I thought I would.

So, what's the catch? My wife is in a very bad place. Still on her meds, not suicidal - but generally very frayed around the edges. Knackered. Drinking, disordered eating, over exercising and focusing on her work which is one of two things she feels generally in 'control' of. The other being her eating disorder, which she is aware controls her, but she falls into the false sense of security it gives when everything else feels out of control.

We go through big ups and downs, in generally a 48hr pattern - sometimes euphorically happy with each other, physically close, emotionally attached, positive etc. But within a couple of days there is nearly always a fall down the other side into a pit where we find ourselves without trying too hard. I see it, she sees it, we are doing what we can to level it off but absolutely its still a bit crazy.

She needs help. She knows it. But she is terrified about her mental state if she reaches out again, the therapist doesn't understand her again, and there isn't much 'helping' rather than bringing up old traumas. I see what she's saying. She doesn't have the energy or the mental bandwidth than to do the basics right now. It's not an excuse, because the longer it goes on the closer it must get to taking actions on her behalf but against her wishes. I know this is a last resort, but if the destructive behaviour continues there may not be much else to do. We shall see.

Around two weeks ago I found further messages from an ex-colleague of hers on LinkedIn, very one-sided, but absolutely focused on wanting her/ sex/ even a torso photo of him sent to her. (on LinkedIn! lol). No real replies encouraging or enjoying what he was doing from my wife, but I absolutely told her that to a guy - if you're not pushing back on that or blanking him that you have left the door open to more.
What does this tell me? Her low self-esteem drives a need to be wanted, to be a focus, even when it's a 'negative' one. Her want to look a certain way, be seen a certain way by people who don't know her like I do (issues and all) and her encouraging/ supportive/ happy/ flirty ways of communicating mean that it's another disaster waiting to happen.
So as you can imagine we have spent a long time talking around inappropriate relationships and communication and the need to handle them so they don't go too far. There may well be others but I have to admit there isn't too much evidence to suggest so. Could she have done it/ things before? Yep. And this brings me onto my final portion of this post... where it leaves me.

Honestly, I still love the girl. I still want to find a path that we can both tread and make life consistently meaningful and worth the work. I want to be with her for me, for us and for the girls. BUT, and this is a big BUT, I now have a much more balanced emotional response to the thought that maybe this can't work and it may never actually get better. This is a continuation, to some extent, of what I have known for 9 years. In that time I have always felt I was the weak link - angry, pissy, cold, caused her hurt with another female early on (only messaging, on work server, nothing to the level that she has now done). But now I see that actually she is just a victim creating more victims. And I am one of them, unfortunately the girls are too. As people say - 'hurt people hurt people'.
So I am a long way away from giving in or giving up. A long way away from running away. But for the first time I feel at ease with the thought that I may not be able to help turn this around and that I may need to find a new way of living my life.

Anyway, thank you for reading, thank you for your support and I apologise if this is something you didn't need to know. I hope it might give some insight or even help for anyone else that might be going through something similar. If not then it's a good release for me.

Cheers, and here's to better times! Rich

Glad you feel a bit more in control, or at least understanding of the circumstances. Hope that gives you the right foundation to make the right decisions for all involved moving forward. Sounds like sensible baby steps and see where that leads you. Again, hope it all works out as best it can.

[isleaiw1]

Glad to hear that you are working your way through it, like any major trauma you go through the test tube curve of emotions, and at some stage rational consideration comes along, looks like you are doing OK on that front.

Good luck with the healing, its difficult for partners to deal with the challenges that our other halves go through, especially when it is around self esteem, but you seem like you have your head screwed on. And glad to hear girls are living the most normal life they can, that is very important.

Enjoy the weekend when it comes.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by rokut

Right. 1.5 months on from my original post. Just over 2 months since everything blew up. Just wanted to note where I'm at, and again thank everyone who has been in touch. I can't say I am surprised by the support, because I knew when posting there are some brilliant people on here, but the thought and care has been incredible, so thank you again.

Headlines: we're still together. The girls are nowhere near as aware/ affected by it all, and are enjoying plenty of time with family on the weekends and getting on great with their school routine. I am not as angry in emotion, or as obsessive in thought as I was and can go a good few hours/ half-day without even thinking about what has happened.
I've got a really good psych therapist at a private clinic not too far outside Windsor, paid for by my companies Private Healthcare, and I am now three sessions into that and even though weird to say, I am 'enjoying' it. It's freeing, pragmatic, practical and really lets me mull things over and reach my own answers and conclusions with a helping hand.
My working days are back to being productive rather than annihilated by unwanted thoughts creeping in. And I have managed to get a job move during it all too and will be moving into my company's sales team (currently in Marketing) by the start of December. Not a knee jerk btw, always been in my career plan, just funny timing.

I am blaming myself less. I am more pragmatic and less angry/ frustrated. I am more emotional (sadness) and able to cry than I have been for a very long while, and actually let this wash over me much more than I thought I would.

So, what's the catch? My wife is in a very bad place. Still on her meds, not suicidal - but generally very frayed around the edges. Knackered. Drinking, disordered eating, over exercising and focusing on her work which is one of two things she feels generally in 'control' of. The other being her eating disorder, which she is aware controls her, but she falls into the false sense of security it gives when everything else feels out of control.

We go through big ups and downs, in generally a 48hr pattern - sometimes euphorically happy with each other, physically close, emotionally attached, positive etc. But within a couple of days there is nearly always a fall down the other side into a pit where we find ourselves without trying too hard. I see it, she sees it, we are doing what we can to level it off but absolutely its still a bit crazy.

She needs help. She knows it. But she is terrified about her mental state if she reaches out again, the therapist doesn't understand her again, and there isn't much 'helping' rather than bringing up old traumas. I see what she's saying. She doesn't have the energy or the mental bandwidth than to do the basics right now. It's not an excuse, because the longer it goes on the closer it must get to taking actions on her behalf but against her wishes. I know this is a last resort, but if the destructive behaviour continues there may not be much else to do. We shall see.

Around two weeks ago I found further messages from an ex-colleague of hers on LinkedIn, very one-sided, but absolutely focused on wanting her/ sex/ even a torso photo of him sent to her. (on LinkedIn! lol). No real replies encouraging or enjoying what he was doing from my wife, but I absolutely told her that to a guy - if you're not pushing back on that or blanking him that you have left the door open to more.
What does this tell me? Her low self-esteem drives a need to be wanted, to be a focus, even when it's a 'negative' one. Her want to look a certain way, be seen a certain way by people who don't know her like I do (issues and all) and her encouraging/ supportive/ happy/ flirty ways of communicating mean that it's another disaster waiting to happen.
So as you can imagine we have spent a long time talking around inappropriate relationships and communication and the need to handle them so they don't go too far. There may well be others but I have to admit there isn't too much evidence to suggest so. Could she have done it/ things before? Yep. And this brings me onto my final portion of this post... where it leaves me.

Honestly, I still love the girl. I still want to find a path that we can both tread and make life consistently meaningful and worth the work. I want to be with her for me, for us and for the girls. BUT, and this is a big BUT, I now have a much more balanced emotional response to the thought that maybe this can't work and it may never actually get better. This is a continuation, to some extent, of what I have known for 9 years. In that time I have always felt I was the weak link - angry, pissy, cold, caused her hurt with another female early on (only messaging, on work server, nothing to the level that she has now done). But now I see that actually she is just a victim creating more victims. And I am one of them, unfortunately the girls are too. As people say - 'hurt people hurt people'.
So I am a long way away from giving in or giving up. A long way away from running away. But for the first time I feel at ease with the thought that I may not be able to help turn this around and that I may need to find a new way of living my life.

Anyway, thank you for reading, thank you for your support and I apologise if this is something you didn't need to know. I hope it might give some insight or even help for anyone else that might be going through something similar. If not then it's a good release for me.

Cheers, and here's to better times! Rich

she is an emotional black hole where you keep pouring in nothing comes out.
kids yes your responsibility invest in them.
For her she is an adult and has to take charge of her happiness and her life not your responsibility to provide for her emotional needs beyond a point.
ask her to see a counsellor or leave you alone.
Do not think her misery is due to you.
Focus on staying happy healthy and challenge her to come out of her maladaptive behaviours. If she does its for her own good. If she doesn't let her wallow in it without dragging you down.

[Paddy1975]

great news that you are getting into your own better headspace. keep looking forward as they say pointless looking back already been there, breathe, enjoy the small things, live every day. good luck with the future matey and if you need to spout at any time we are all here as always.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

she is an emotional black hole where you keep pouring in nothing comes out.
kids yes your responsibility invest in them.
For her she is an adult and has to take charge of her happiness and her life not your responsibility to provide for her emotional needs beyond a point.
ask her to see a counsellor or leave you alone.
Do not think her misery is due to you.
Focus on staying happy healthy and challenge her to come out of her maladaptive behaviours. If she does its for her own good. If she doesn't let her wallow in it without dragging you down.

Wow. When i married my wife I remember saying "in sickness and in heath" and I meant it. Mental heath problems arent a choice just like physical health problems arent. And they arent solved by a big stick in my experience but by help and support.

I

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Wow. When i married my wife I remember saying "in sickness and in heath" and I meant it. Mental heath problems arent a choice just like physical health problems arent. And they arent solved by a big stick in my experience but by help and support.

I

I'm in line with this too.

rokut glad that you are getting through things and have made a huge amount of progress. You are putting yourself in a place where you have the strength to support her in her fight.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Wow. When i married my wife I remember saying "in sickness and in heath" and I meant it. Mental heath problems arent a choice just like physical health problems arent. And they arent solved by a big stick in my experience but by help and support.

I

enablement to come out of maladaptive behaviours via counselling is beneficial to both parties as I have mentioned in my post.
Colluding with the current situation is not sustainable in the long run.
' From sickness to health' is also a marital responsibility.

[rokut]

I appreciate everyone's views, and it just shows how different we are, what we have experienced (or not) and how its affected us in life. Much like the situation I am dealing with. People... we're complicated!

No colluding with the current situation from my point of view, but there's also a balance to be had around how you can support/ enact change. Too much too quickly, and let's not forget this has been in my wife's life for over 18 years to some extent - double the time I have spent with her, and it could alienate/ shock and make things worse.

Really appreciate the thoughts and insights though. This life stuff is complex!

[davyk31]

Are the recent messages you found from the original guy or someone else? If it’s someone else then I expect there are plenty more you haven’t discovered.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by davyk31

Are the recent messages you found from the original guy or someone else? If it’s someone else then I expect there are plenty more you haven’t discovered.

I don’t think that’s the point, the OP even acknowledged that was a possibility. The real point is fixing the insecure feeling that is driving that behaviour in the first place. To me it sounds like she needs help, not abandoning.

The only caveat, the OP needs to get her to acknowledge that she needs to find help and work out how she ended up where she is. To me, and I’ve shown this my wife who’s a clinical psychologist, the biggest risk is the denial and her “blaming” the therapists for being bad, not the other behaviour.

The OP’s right though, there’s unlikely to be any quick fix.

[davyk31]

But that insecurity and unhappiness may be coming from not enjoying her life as it currently is, maybe even not loving her current partner and wanting more “excitement”. That is unlikely to be fixed by sticking around and investing a lot of emotional effort into trying to make something work that is irrevocably broken to one party.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by davyk31

But that insecurity and unhappiness may be coming from not enjoying her life as it currently is, maybe even not loving her current partner and wanting more “excitement”. That is unlikely to be fixed by sticking around and investing a lot of emotional effort into trying to make something work that is irrevocably broken to one party.

If you read what the OP said and got that fair enough. I read the part where he said her issues predated their relationship.

[rokut]

Davyk- absolutely. Anything is possible. Yes I could easily be part, or the majority of the problem now. In reality it’s hard to be clear on anything when dealing with the human mind and reliant on communication.
What are lies and what’s the truth? What are half truths? Could I be an issue alongside many other things, or the main one? Have I just been living blind to the reality? Everything is possible.

I have a wife, I have two children, I think I am doing what I can to help - seeking professional help to try and be clearer on that. Believe me there is plenty of questioning in my own head about what is going on and if it’s more me. But the reality is that she unfortunately had been battling anxiety, depression and an eating disorder way before I turned up in her life. So I know I can’t be the only issue even if I am part of it now.

And yes I believe ‘inappropriate’ relationships (now she’s married and has children) could well be a common theme. A yearning to be controlled to some extent, to search for strongly opinionated and driven men, mostly older than her. It would match a similar profile to how she’s been treated by her dad and past partners. And maybe I fit that profile, or did, for a while? Now 9 years down the line this is the longest and most expansive single relationship she’s ever had. And that’s what I’m now dealing with.

Believe me, I could talk at you for hours on end about this, so these messages and thoughts of mine are really just the tip of the iceberg.

No argument though. All good points and good questions. Thank you

[rokut]

Who wants an update after a further 5 months?! :P I can imagine the hand count hit 0, but here it is anyway... partly good for me to gain some clarity, partly as spewing the most intimate life sh!t onto the internet is therapeutic, and hoping that it may be of some random use to someone else sometime in the future.

Crazily it's now 7 months since this all came to light, and even in the past couple of weeks been dealing with more detail and the consequences of it all.
Life in general is manageable, 'good' even at times, and things have certainly become less aggressive and negatively emotional for me. My wife has stopped drinking in the week, she has come out of her old job, found a new improved job but given herself until the beginning of May as a break from employment and will tomorrow begin sessions with a counsellor/ therapist. Some real positives after a heck of a lot of hard, concentrated discussions and plenty of emotion on both sides.
When I find the realities of it all a little tough I still take myself off to the bedroom to listen to music, read a book, have a bath OR what I usually enjoy, especially if late, is grab the car keys and go for a nice drive. My psych sessions curtailed at the end of last year as I had one 'online' session and didn't gain much from it. I am planned to have another one (and maybe final one) in April when it can be face to face again.

Two weeks ago my wife left her laptop running and I did what I probably shouldn't and I snooped. LinkedIn, no sign of the guy I found out about (Calle) in August, but plenty of messaging history with the guy I found out about in Oct (Tom). My wife's explanation of 'lockdown/ medication' being the reason for infidelity came unwound with the realisation that messaging of a sexual and loving nature were present between them back in early 2020. So you can imagine my delight and my response to it. Cue plenty of me talking/ shouting at her, getting things off my chest, and then moving to actually talking and trying to understand how bad a place she/ we were in, and the realities of timelines. I think we're there now, and there is no hiding - she had gotten into some awful stuff earlier than I had even anticipated and confirmed its a very similar story with both of the men (50's, senior positions in the past two organisations she's worked in, no sign/ possibility of anything physical, both detached from their own wives and kids, musical (go figure!)). Another insightful piece to it all is the narrative of my controlling and narcissistic ways that she told both of them about. That links both of her relationships - with her even making up stories of me looking through her phone etc (when I definitely wasn't) - seemingly in an enabling 'dislike my husband, he's a piece of shit, don't worry about cheating on him and my kids with me' type background.

All in all her ability to lie, keep secret 'lives' separate from each other and her lying to herself to help enable the cheating was a surprise but gave me better insight than ever before around how she did things. Compulsive lying, detachment from her own-self, seeking positivity from men who were seemingly similar to her dad (age, position in career, detached from family, willing to cheat on their partners, lacking care in their children) was common.
A random post around Trauma from an account I follow on IG, and the comments within it really interested me. cPTSD was something I wasn't aware of, so I looked into it and BINGO! (Dino DNA!... that's for the JP fans in the room) cPTSD is complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It differs from PTSD by being a longer term type of trauma, much like abuse as a child and the effect that has on a person as they grow up. Reading the articles on it totally hit home for me with what I see in my wife. Plus I already knew she had a horrible childhood full of lack of care, broken promises and fear. Plus a very traumatic ordeal at the age of 15.
So I sent her links around it and she read it and she agrees, it sounds like her. So, in tomorrow's session she will start the no doubt long process of trying to understand as much of this as possible and un-pick the past and how it continues to affect her today. It will no doubt be a very long road but there is at least some positivity now, which there has been little of during the past 10 years of depression, anxiety and ED.

I am still around, the kids are in a good place and not affected by our discussions any longer - they are back in school in the days, I am still working from home and I'm just about keeping it together. I have been able to keep my head up and not stoop to the same lows as my wife did for a coping mechanism, so not brought any further difficulty into our relationship and feel confident that I have done everything (and maybe more!) than I ever could have imagined to try and help the situation.
Of course, there is no guarantee in life and who knows what the future will bring, but all in all I'm feeling in a much better position than I have done since the Summer and hope this is the beginning of a much more positive chapter in our lives.

Sorry for another essay, thank you for listening, and appreciate the support as always! Cheers guys.

[MashinBenzin]

You're a great man rokut I'm so sorry that this got even more difficult. But you, yourself, deserve immense credit for constantly trying to do the right thing. Incredible.

[isleaiw1]

You are doing a great job @rokut, and I admire your tenacity and dedication to the cause. Most men would have run a mile by now and just spent the next few years being bitter!

I suspect at the end of all of this your wife will either realise what an absolute star she married and it really will be happily ever after, or decide she is beyond help and revert to type. I sincerely hope the former but if the latter you will know you have done all you can to save the marriage - and one day so will your kids.

I'm confident its going to be the former as you are both doing the right things and have got through the low point without splitting. Good luck with it all, you deserve the best outcome.