[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

The BMWNA sales number is the harbinger for BMW MT, at least in the US, and that is a fact.

They very well may be, but as we now know there is at least one new platform shipping in 2020 with one. An economist's argument is well detached from all of your points, though. I'm confident it will have the same or better "raw feel as the surging power band of yesteryears."

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by metallicpea

That's a good thing. My M3 has a sunroof and it makes it very hard to find a workable seating position when you have your helmet on. I wish it had sunroof delete and I now see why E46 owners always talk about that option. But I guess the new M3 will likely be bigger - so maybe more headroom, but a helmet really jacks things up in some cars.

When I configure an F80, I have to manually add a moonroof, so is the CF roof not already standard? Did I miss something?

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

They very well may be, but as we now know there is at least one new platform shipping in 2020 with one. An economist's argument is well detached from all of your points, though. I'm confident it will have the same or better "raw feel as the surging power band of yesteryears."

Surely the new platform will be evaluated once available. As of right now all my points are relevant to those who listen.

In fact, in our group buy(of 8) of M54/S54 of yesteryears, all with MT, each of us independently reached similar conclusions regarding BMW turbo + MT, and have moved on to BMW turbo + 8AT.

So yes, all my/our points are attached to the economic argument, aka US MT sales numbers(albeit a small fraction).

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Surely the new platform will be evaluated once available. As of right now all my points are relevant to those who listen.

In fact, in our group buy(of 8) of M54/S54 of yesteryears, all with MT, each of us independently reached similar conclusions regarding BMW turbo + MT, and have moved on to BMW turbo + 8AT.

So yes, all my/our points are attached to the economic argument, aka US MT sales numbers(albeit a small fraction).

You heard it here folks, the council of eight has decided. The F30 has made it impossible for a manual transmission to "feel fast". Meanwhile, the only F30 in any sanctioned racing competition (at least in the US) is in fact, a manual transmission.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

You heard it here folks, the counsel of eight has decided.

That is correct, 8 of 8, 100%, going from M54/S54 MT to N20/N26/N55 8AT. Those are the decisions made in this sample set.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Hmmmmm....when you dyno, you're at full throttle. On the shift with a manual, some boost is maintained so when you enter that next gear, you have a very brief moment of lag and then you're in full power. Power is power at that point. Of course you won't get truly linear power delivery with a turbo, but these BMW turbos aren't anything like those of 1980s and 1990s turbos which fell off hard on a shift and were like light switches, on or off. Hell, even my prior 2012 WRX with tune had laughable lag compared to my stock M235.

every car vents boost when you shift, even if the air is recirculated. if your car didn't vent boost between shifts you would damage your engine. the reason your m235 has less lag than a wrx is because 1) a 3.0L 6 cyl at the same power level will build boost faster than a 2.0L 4 cyl and 2) the boxer engine design and UEL exhaust manifold is extremely inefficient.

the best of both worlds imo is a BT car. you get the feel of boost surge after a shift, but it also continues to increase in power/torque up to redline like an N/A car. A flat power band is fun and fast, but we do it for the sensation of acceleration. not just to look out the window and know we're passing people.

but like I said, i know it's not for everybody. that's just my personal cup of tea.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by kern417

the best of both worlds imo is a BT car.

BT=biturbo?

Volvo does have supercharger + turbo combo, but it adds weights and complexities(and extra parts to good bad).

[kern417]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

BT=biturbo?

Volvo does have supercharger + turbo combo, but it adds weights and complexities(and extra parts to good bad).

*Big Turbo
Something that flows enough for 500+whp