F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20, N26, B46, B48 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > N20 falls flat on its face
ARMA SPEED
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-03-2013, 05:34 PM   #1
Jamesons Viggen
Brigadier General
United_States
193
Rep
3,780
Posts

Drives: '98 M Roadster stg 2+ S/C
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Rochester Hills MI

iTrader: (3)

N20 falls flat on its face

I wanted to point something out.

This is not only true of the N20, I am betting the N55 is the same.

We all know about the N52 having a better sound, and some will never be accepting of the N20 4 cylinder as a BMW engine. Fine.

But, there is often a misconception that the N20 is all midrange, no top end, falls flat on it's face, does't make as much power as the N52 up high.

That is simply not true.

Here is yet another dyno. Ignore the red lines, those are with a tune. Focus on the purple.

Now the dark purple line is whp, that is what we are concerned with.

True, it peaks at about 5400rpms. That is not exactly a top end supporting figure. But keep looking. It maintains 225whp @6000, again not high, keep looking though and note how it stays above 200whp, right up until the cut at 6700rpms. Basically, it looks like from the peak at 5400 rpms to the cut, the N20 makes within 5-6% of that figure.

I think this is largely due to the twin scroll. Because torque hits low, peak of 1250 according to BMW yet it makes peak hp and within 5% of that peak all the way to 6700rpms.



This should not turn into a N20 vs N55 debate, its tiring, and what I have posted here is likely true for the N55 as well.

My hyphothesis is that the N20 makes more power than the N52 at pretty much any RPM from 1200-6700. The concept that the N20 is all midrange I think is a bit of a misnomer. I saw the same results with my dyno, and a handful of others.

If I am wrong, and someone has a stock N52 dyno showing the N52 makes more than 210whp and any higher in the rpms, I am more than happy to be proven incorrect.
__________________

'98 Dinan/RMS stage 2+(VAC cams, CES Cutring etc)
'15 Buick Regal "T"(wife)
'06 Saab 9-5 Combi 5mt (full suspension, LSD, clipped turbo etc)
Appreciate 0
      04-03-2013, 06:45 PM   #2
FrozenDarkness
New Member
6
Rep
18
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

The N20 is definitely a better engine at all points of the rev cycle than the N52. Although, I personally think there is still some turbo lag (on my car) and I miss the responsiveness of the N52.

The N20 to me finally hit the right balance between power and usability, especially in the city. I test drove the 335 and I found the constant gas and brake really annoying. I can imagine if I lived in Texas, a 335 would be a dream, but for me in california, i can't imagine driving one the way I want to.
Appreciate 0
      04-03-2013, 08:11 PM   #3
David328M-Sport
Brigadier General
Australia
100
Rep
3,566
Posts

Drives: F30 M-Sport 328i Estoril Blue
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne Australia

iTrader: (0)

My old E90 325i had/has (sold) the 2.5 litre N52 engine. Factory power/torque is 160Kw/250Nm. N20 is 180Kw/350Nm. Big difference in figures and big difference from first hand experience with both engines.

The N52 had/has a glorious sound, but stock performance was never outstanding with the 6AT doing the 0-100kmh run in a BMW quoted 7.7 seconds. The PowerBox from BMS I had installed boosted performance somewhat, giving the 325i what it truly needed.

Very happy with the stock N20 performance - even happier with BMS Stage 1 boost performance.
__________________
328i M-Sport, Estoril Blue, Carbon XP 35 Tint, front heated seats, black Dakota, Sports Suspension, Anthracite Headliner, HUD, Pro Nav, Sunroof, hk 600w, Bi-Xenon, 19" 403M wheels, Reversing Camera, DAB+, Xenon, BT Ext Connect, MST turbo intake pipe, MST Cold Air Intake, JB4 on Map 2 with Catless DP produces awesome performance in Sport.
Appreciate 0
      04-03-2013, 08:14 PM   #4
David328M-Sport
Brigadier General
Australia
100
Rep
3,566
Posts

Drives: F30 M-Sport 328i Estoril Blue
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenDarkness View Post
Although, I personally think there is still some turbo lag (on my car) and I miss the responsiveness of the N52.
Every turbo car with exhaust boost has some turbo lag. If yours didn't have any lag, there might be a problem. The vanes need to spin up somehow.
I miss the N52's mid to high revving note.
__________________
328i M-Sport, Estoril Blue, Carbon XP 35 Tint, front heated seats, black Dakota, Sports Suspension, Anthracite Headliner, HUD, Pro Nav, Sunroof, hk 600w, Bi-Xenon, 19" 403M wheels, Reversing Camera, DAB+, Xenon, BT Ext Connect, MST turbo intake pipe, MST Cold Air Intake, JB4 on Map 2 with Catless DP produces awesome performance in Sport.
Appreciate 0
      04-03-2013, 08:29 PM   #5
bavarianf30
Second Lieutenant
bavarianf30's Avatar
United_States
13
Rep
214
Posts

Drives: 335i 14 s1000rr 17
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los angeles

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen
I wanted to point something out.

This is not only true of the N20, I am betting the N55 is the same.

We all know about the N52 having a better sound, and some will never be accepting of the N20 4 cylinder as a BMW engine. Fine.

But, there is often a misconception that the N20 is all midrange, no top end, falls flat on it's face, does't make as much power as the N52 up high.

That is simply not true.

Here is yet another dyno. Ignore the red lines, those are with a tune. Focus on the purple.

Now the dark purple line is whp, that is what we are concerned with.

True, it peaks at about 5400rpms. That is not exactly a top end supporting figure. But keep looking. It maintains 225whp @6000, again not high, keep looking though and note how it stays above 200whp, right up until the cut at 6700rpms. Basically, it looks like from the peak at 5400 rpms to the cut, the N20 makes within 5-6% of that figure.

I think this is largely due to the twin scroll. Because torque hits low, peak of 1250 according to BMW yet it makes peak hp and within 5% of that peak all the way to 6700rpms.



This should not turn into a N20 vs N55 debate, its tiring, and what I have posted here is likely true for the N55 as well.

My hyphothesis is that the N20 makes more power than the N52 at pretty much any RPM from 1200-6700. The concept that the N20 is all midrange I think is a bit of a misnomer. I saw the same results with my dyno, and a handful of others.

If I am wrong, and someone has a stock N52 dyno showing the N52 makes more than 210whp and any higher in the rpms, I am more than happy to be proven incorrect.
+1
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2013, 01:50 AM   #6
momo3605
Major
207
Rep
1,201
Posts

Drives: M340i LCI, 718 GTS 4.0
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (2)

That's my car
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2013, 07:40 AM   #7
Jamesons Viggen
Brigadier General
United_States
193
Rep
3,780
Posts

Drives: '98 M Roadster stg 2+ S/C
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Rochester Hills MI

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by momo3605 View Post
That's my car
Well, don't be so quiet! I know Terry explained the solenoid solution is temporary, but what is your opinion of stage 2 on 91?
__________________

'98 Dinan/RMS stage 2+(VAC cams, CES Cutring etc)
'15 Buick Regal "T"(wife)
'06 Saab 9-5 Combi 5mt (full suspension, LSD, clipped turbo etc)
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:15 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST