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      10-08-2016, 06:59 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanks21 View Post
Stock IC peaked around 141 IAT, new one peaked at 102:
Your pulls are too short .. You need to start at 2500 RPM till redline for 2 gears consecutive.
Let me go find an abandoned runway real quick. I'll do a highway run tomorrow into the midnight sun
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      10-08-2016, 07:01 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanks21 View Post
Let me go find an abandoned runway real quick. I'll do a highway run tomorrow into the midnight sun
Make sure you drive INTO the sun. That'll be long enough. But the data will be too damaged at that point. Oh, and your graph is too ugly. And you didn't do it while wearing a tiara. You should make sure you have exactly 6.482 quarts of oil in the car. Otherwise, not good enough.
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      10-08-2016, 10:44 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com
Your pulls are too short .. You need to start at 2500 RPM till redline for 2 gears consecutive.
I understand your need to ask for a data set with perfect parameters, but you do realize even if you get EXACTLY what you are asking for is doesn't matter right?

You CAN NOT accurately compare data derived from one vehicle to another. Too many variables such as the vehicle condition, weather conditions, road conditions, etc. That's like trying to compare two different cars being dyno'd on two different dyno's in two different locations on two different days.

The graphs a few post's ago show that this intercooler is an improvement over stock. They did a pull with the stock intercooler, removed it, installed the new intercooler and did the pulls again. On the same car. That's an accurate test. Period. It showed almost a 40 degree drop in IAT's over stock. That's an improvement.

If you're so hell bent on disproving that this intercooler is inferior to others, buy one yourself and do accurate testing on your own. Install a stock intercooler and log data. Then install the eBay intercooler and log data. Then install the intercooler you're so vigorously defending and log data. Make sure your pulls are all done exactly the same. Time, road, weather and all conditions should be identical. Then and only then can you make whatever judgement you like. Until then you're coming off REALLY bad in this thread.

Also, these perfect pulls where you start from 2500rpm and shift to redline for 2-3 gears that you are asking for from other people is asking people to break the law on public roads and put other drivers at risk. Just saying.
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      10-08-2016, 11:00 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCrabMafia View Post
I understand your need to ask for a data set with perfect parameters, but you do realize even if you get EXACTLY what you are asking for is doesn't matter right?

You CAN NOT accurately compare data derived from one vehicle to another. Too many variables such as the vehicle condition, weather conditions, road conditions, etc. That's like trying to compare two different cars being dyno'd on two different dyno's in two different locations on two different days.

The graphs a few post's ago show that this intercooler is an improvement over stock. They did a pull with the stock intercooler, removed it, installed the new intercooler and did the pulls again. On the same car. That's an accurate test. Period. It showed almost a 40 degree drop in IAT's over stock. That's an improvement.

If you're so hell bent on disproving that this intercooler is inferior to others, buy one yourself and do accurate testing on your own. Install a stock intercooler and log data. Then install the eBay intercooler and log data. Then install the intercooler you're so vigorously defending and log data. Make sure your pulls are all done exactly the same. Time, road, weather and all conditions should be identical. Then and only then can you make whatever judgement you like. Until then you're coming off REALLY bad in this thread.

Also, these perfect pulls where you start from 2500rpm and shift to redline for 2-3 gears that you are asking for from other people is asking people to break the law on public roads and put other drivers at risk. Just saying.
There's no reasoning with Michel. I think it has been well established that the intercooler is an improvement over stock. I also drove 600 miles round-trip last weekend, and the car pulled hard and felt fine the entire time.

Like I've said time and time before, there is a reason why he keeps asking for more data and then poking holes in it every time. There's also a reason why he's the ONLY one. Dude is so threatened by this, he can't keep his mouth shut. I agree with you, if Michel is so unsatisfied with it all, maybe he should buy one and do his own comparisons. Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out why he claims up and down that the Wagner is better despite admitting he hasn't even seen the eBay one in person.
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      10-09-2016, 03:46 PM   #247
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i think its time to put this thread down. the 200$ fmic is not even available anymore im pretty sure.

For those who can find the deal and are wondering if the aftermarket ebay fmic is better than the stock, the answer is YES.

I have one myself, installed it, and although i have no logs, I felt a slight difference.

Is the fmic as good as other name brands that vendors here are defending?
maybe, maybe not, but lets jsut put it this way, if you are shopping for a 200$ intercooler, the likelyhood of you shopping for an 800+$ intercooler is probably not high, so just buy the $200 fmic, and be better than stock and call it a day

unless one of the vendors are willing to put some company money or personal money and test this intercooler with a stock, the ebay one , and the wagner one (that it is replicating), with the specific redline pulls through multiple gears, on the same car, with the same conditions, , I think that all this arguing and drama over which intercoolers fit and finish or performance is stupid.

SO unless someone has all three fmic's and is going to post the logs after testing all three, I think we should just /thread this.
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      10-10-2016, 06:33 PM   #248
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More logs. Forgot to change the timeout from 3 to 10 seconds though after I got my new phone but IATs never went above 102-103
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      10-11-2016, 06:31 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCrabMafia View Post
I understand your need to ask for a data set with perfect parameters, but you do realize even if you get EXACTLY what you are asking for is doesn't matter right?

You CAN NOT accurately compare data derived from one vehicle to another. Too many variables such as the vehicle condition, weather conditions, road conditions, etc. That's like trying to compare two different cars being dyno'd on two different dyno's in two different locations on two different days.

The graphs a few post's ago show that this intercooler is an improvement over stock. They did a pull with the stock intercooler, removed it, installed the new intercooler and did the pulls again. On the same car. That's an accurate test. Period. It showed almost a 40 degree drop in IAT's over stock. That's an improvement.

If you're so hell bent on disproving that this intercooler is inferior to others, buy one yourself and do accurate testing on your own. Install a stock intercooler and log data. Then install the eBay intercooler and log data. Then install the intercooler you're so vigorously defending and log data. Make sure your pulls are all done exactly the same. Time, road, weather and all conditions should be identical. Then and only then can you make whatever judgement you like. Until then you're coming off REALLY bad in this thread.

Also, these perfect pulls where you start from 2500rpm and shift to redline for 2-3 gears that you are asking for from other people is asking people to break the law on public roads and put other drivers at risk. Just saying.
I understand your need to ask for a data set with perfect parameters, but you do realize even if you get EXACTLY what you are asking for is doesn't matter right?

You CAN NOT accurately compare data derived from one vehicle to another. Too many variables such as the vehicle condition, weather conditions, road conditions, etc. That's like trying to compare two different cars being dyno'd on two different dyno's in two different locations on two different days.

You are correct a direct comparison is not possible but a long log would give a much better idea on what an intercooler is capable of

Also, these perfect pulls where you start from 2500rpm and shift to redline for 2-3 gears that you are asking for from other people is asking people to break the law on public roads and put other drivers at risk. Just saying

Pulls need to be done a closed course, I'm not asking anyone to break the law. Please do not put words in my mouth. If you are basing a intercooler on 45mph drive no need to buy this or any other FMIC, stock will be more than enough

The graphs a few post's ago show that this intercooler is an improvement over stock. They did a pull with the stock intercooler, removed it, installed the new intercooler and did the pulls again. On the same car. That's an accurate test. Period. It showed almost a 40 degree drop in IAT's over stock. That's an improvement.

When did I ever say this intercooler is not better than stock?
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      10-11-2016, 06:33 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpeng View Post
There's no reasoning with Michel. I think it has been well established that the intercooler is an improvement over stock. I also drove 600 miles round-trip last weekend, and the car pulled hard and felt fine the entire time.

Like I've said time and time before, there is a reason why he keeps asking for more data and then poking holes in it every time. There's also a reason why he's the ONLY one. Dude is so threatened by this, he can't keep his mouth shut. I agree with you, if Michel is so unsatisfied with it all, maybe he should buy one and do his own comparisons. Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out why he claims up and down that the Wagner is better despite admitting he hasn't even seen the eBay one in person.
Please show me where I said this is not an improvement over stock

I keep asking for more data because you need accurate data to know how much an FMIC offers. You are driven by price , others are driven by results, quality,etc...
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      10-11-2016, 06:35 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TANG2864 View Post
i think its time to put this thread down. the 200$ fmic is not even available anymore im pretty sure.

For those who can find the deal and are wondering if the aftermarket ebay fmic is better than the stock, the answer is YES.

I have one myself, installed it, and although i have no logs, I felt a slight difference.

Is the fmic as good as other name brands that vendors here are defending?
maybe, maybe not, but lets jsut put it this way, if you are shopping for a 200$ intercooler, the likelyhood of you shopping for an 800+$ intercooler is probably not high, so just buy the $200 fmic, and be better than stock and call it a day

unless one of the vendors are willing to put some company money or personal money and test this intercooler with a stock, the ebay one , and the wagner one (that it is replicating), with the specific redline pulls through multiple gears, on the same car, with the same conditions, , I think that all this arguing and drama over which intercoolers fit and finish or performance is stupid.

SO unless someone has all three fmic's and is going to post the logs after testing all three, I think we should just /thread this.
I agree with everything you have said
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      10-11-2016, 06:37 PM   #252
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Oh for fuck sakes.
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      10-11-2016, 08:59 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
You CAN NOT accurately compare data derived from one vehicle to another. Too many variables such as the vehicle condition, weather conditions, road conditions, etc. That's like trying to compare two different cars being dyno'd on two different dyno's in two different locations on two different days.
Better let the SAE and the EPA know that you can't compare data between two vehicles in different locations.

Considering the whole aftermarket industry markets it's products on just such a basis the irony is getting pretty epic here.
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      10-17-2016, 08:46 AM   #254
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Hey guys I was able to find an old abandoned salt flat near my house and got this log. Got up to 6800 rpm in 3rd then 6600 in 4th before I saw Jesus. IAT peaked at 100, stock I/C would routinely see 140+
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      10-17-2016, 09:39 AM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanks21 View Post
Hey guys I was able to find an old abandoned salt flat near my house and got this log. Got up to 6800 rpm in 3rd then 6600 in 4th before I saw Jesus. IAT peaked at 100, stock I/C would routinely see 140+
Not good enough. The colors of the graph displease me, and you should be driving on the highway not a salt flat. Also, did you eat breakfast before you did it?

(I think it has been well established this is a great option, especially for the price. My car feels great, and pulls hard on long drives. The only person fighting this is an angry sponsor.)
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      10-17-2016, 09:41 AM   #256
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Need links I can't find this cheap cooler
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      10-17-2016, 09:54 AM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smee View Post
Need links I can't find this cheap cooler
http://www.ebay.com/itm/142064829678...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Price has gone up, understandably
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      10-17-2016, 10:00 AM   #258
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cheers i bet postage to UK will be killer also.
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      10-17-2016, 11:52 AM   #259
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The new price was a temporary "Canada Special" from when I asked them to ship from China. I assume the price for US will go back to normal when/if they get stock. I noticed a bunch of these on AliExpress too but I've never bought anything from there
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      10-17-2016, 12:48 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanks21 View Post
Hey guys I was able to find an old abandoned salt flat near my house and got this log. Got up to 6800 rpm in 3rd then 6600 in 4th before I saw Jesus. IAT peaked at 100, stock I/C would routinely see 140+
What sort of IAT increase are you seeing on your multi gear pulls? They all seem to top out at 100* but what's the starting temp?

By the way good work on the logs, you seem to be the only one that's provided meaningful data with the multi gear pulls
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      10-17-2016, 01:28 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daleb View Post
What sort of IAT increase are you seeing on your multi gear pulls? They all seem to top out at 100* but what's the starting temp?

By the way good work on the logs, you seem to be the only one that's provided meaningful data with the multi gear pulls
They've all started around 90-93 and the highest I've seen is around 103-104 depending on the outside temp.

I'll tell you if I didnt have the bluetooth connector I wouldnt be doing jack squat!
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      10-17-2016, 01:41 PM   #262
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Great work with the logs and numbers! Looks to be performing quite a bit better over stock.
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