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      05-13-2015, 09:04 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arwin View Post
Dinan,

Have you guys run any tests on the dinan stage 2 running with the MPE and the MP intake?

Any ideas on what power differences can be expected compared to running the stage 2 with the dinan intake and the dinan exhaust.

I read in another post that u mentioned that the exhaust won't make too much of a difference, but how much difference would the MP intake make vs the dinan intake?
Our testing concluded the MPPK intake did nothing for additional power (if it did it was immeasurable). In some cases it actually lost some power in comparison to the unmodified stock air box. Perhaps we had a very oddball and uncharacteristic batch of MPPK cars that we were testing but I find that unlikely. The only noticeable difference the MP intake seemed to make was in the sound department with some extra swooshing and wooshing.... oh and you get a sweet sticker on the tube.
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      05-13-2015, 10:46 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydim View Post
I just put a deposit down from the local Canadian Dinan dealer. Should get it in a week or two.

I checked my OEM intake out, and there is a snow filter installed.

You would think having the hole in the MPPK big would be a negative effect. It's drawing hot air in from the engine bay.
How much did you pay in Canadian?
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      05-13-2015, 11:24 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering
Quote:
Originally Posted by arwin View Post
Dinan,

Have you guys run any tests on the dinan stage 2 running with the MPE and the MP intake?

Any ideas on what power differences can be expected compared to running the stage 2 with the dinan intake and the dinan exhaust.

I read in another post that u mentioned that the exhaust won't make too much of a difference, but how much difference would the MP intake make vs the dinan intake?
Our testing concluded the MPPK intake did nothing for additional power (if it did it was immeasurable). In some cases it actually lost some power in comparison to the unmodified stock air box. Perhaps we had a very oddball and uncharacteristic batch of MPPK cars that we were testing but I find that unlikely. The only noticeable difference the MP intake seemed to make was in the sound department with some extra swooshing and wooshing.... oh and you get a sweet sticker on the tube.
So....all other things being equal, did the MPPK air box with your Dinan intake produce the same or less power than the comparable stock airbox with Dinan intake?

I guess what I'm asking is....if I still have my stock airbox (I do), should I put that back on before going with the Dinan intake (and Stage 2)?
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      05-13-2015, 11:47 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nerd View Post
So....all other things being equal, did the MPPK air box with your Dinan intake produce the same or less power than the comparable stock airbox with Dinan intake?

I guess what I'm asking is....if I still have my stock airbox (I do), should I put that back on before going with the Dinan intake (and Stage 2)?
A short concise answer isn't really possible. The problem cars that lost power with the MPPK intake all exhibited faults (but not a CEL since the codes thrown are sporadic) before they were even touched by Dinan. The faults generated seemed to indicate that the faults were derived from a turbulence issue created by the additional hole in the MPPK airbox. Not all our test cars had this happening though so sensitivity of the MAF sensor seems to play a large part in this as well. If you have a code scanner and scan the car and have air flow codes to start with you have your answer as to what you should probably do.

Overall, the power difference for those that had these issues was minimal (~5 HP) and actually being able to feel a power difference is unlikely.
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      05-13-2015, 12:55 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nerd View Post
So....all other things being equal, did the MPPK air box with your Dinan intake produce the same or less power than the comparable stock airbox with Dinan intake?

I guess what I'm asking is....if I still have my stock airbox (I do), should I put that back on before going with the Dinan intake (and Stage 2)?
A short concise answer isn't really possible. The problem cars that lost power with the MPPK intake all exhibited faults (but not a CEL since the codes thrown are sporadic) before they were even touched by Dinan. The faults generated seemed to indicate that the faults were derived from a turbulence issue created by the additional hole in the MPPK airbox. Not all our test cars had this happening though so sensitivity of the MAF sensor seems to play a large part in this as well. If you have a code scanner and scan the car and have air flow codes to start with you have your answer as to what you should probably do.

Overall, the power difference for those that had these issues was minimal (~5 HP) and actually being able to feel a power difference is unlikely.
But when we're talking a total gain of 10-15 hp from the intake, 5 hp is significant in that context.
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      05-13-2015, 01:09 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
Our testing concluded the MPPK intake did nothing for additional power (if it did it was immeasurable). In some cases it actually lost some power in comparison to the unmodified stock air box. Perhaps we had a very oddball and uncharacteristic batch of MPPK cars that we were testing but I find that unlikely. The only noticeable difference the MP intake seemed to make was in the sound department with some extra swooshing and wooshing.... oh and you get a sweet sticker on the tube.
Assuming my car doesn't lose any power from the MPPK intake, I can expect my numbers to drop about 10HP and 15 lb-ft torque with running the MPPK intake, MPPK Exhaust and Dinan stage 2?
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      05-13-2015, 01:23 PM   #95
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Are the numbers posted on those graphs WHP?

I assume they are since there is the BMW listed HP (At the crank) and then the measured HP (Assuming WHP).

Sorry for asking silly questions, but wanted to do my research before pulling the trigger
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      05-13-2015, 02:17 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nerd View Post
But when we're talking a total gain of 10-15 hp from the intake, 5 hp is significant in that context.
I suppose thats true. However the loss of ~5 HP mentioned was the max loss. At other RPM's the loss was nothing or next to nothing (1-2HP) so it really depends on where you take your snapshot of power at. Numbers can be manipulated in a lot of different ways. Bottom line is the MPPK intake through our testing doesn't make power on its own and worst case scenario can actually lose a little bit of power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arwin View Post
Assuming my car doesn't lose any power from the MPPK intake, I can expect my numbers to drop about 10HP and 15 lb-ft torque with running the MPPK intake, MPPK Exhaust and Dinan stage 2?
In theory, yes. Never been tested though as part of stage 2's software programming is adjusting to the correct air fuel mixture with the Dinan intake. Hence why the Dinan CAI (or upgraded intake) is required for stage 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arwin View Post
Are the numbers posted on those graphs WHP?
I assume they are since there is the BMW listed HP (At the crank) and then the measured HP (Assuming WHP).
Sorry for asking silly questions, but wanted to do my research before pulling the trigger
Dinan only reports numbers at the crank.
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      05-13-2015, 02:37 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthmaster View Post
How much did you pay in Canadian?
$700.
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      05-13-2015, 02:39 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
In theory, yes. Never been tested though as part of stage 2's software programming is adjusting to the correct air fuel mixture with the Dinan intake. Hence why the Dinan CAI (or upgraded intake) is required for stage 2.
Required or suggested?
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      05-13-2015, 03:24 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydim View Post
$700.
Damn pretty expensive. That after tax?
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      05-13-2015, 04:33 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arwin View Post
Required or suggested?
An upgraded intake from stock/mppk is required for stage 2. An upgraded exhaust is recommended but not required.

Could stage 2 be programmed physically on a stock car? Yes. But without the supporting mods the warranty would be in jeopardy. If we were speaking in terms of competitor products it would be in the same vein of running a catless downpipe/high octane map on a vehicle with a stock downpipe and 91 octane fuel. Obviously this is an extreme comparison but you get the point.
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      05-13-2015, 04:41 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
An upgraded intake from stock/mppk is required for stage 2. An upgraded exhaust is recommended but not required.

Could stage 2 be programmed physically on a stock car? Yes. But without the supporting mods the warranty would be in jeopardy. If we were speaking in terms of competitor products it would be in the same vein of running a catless downpipe/high octane map on a vehicle with a stock downpipe and 91 octane fuel. Obviously this is an extreme comparison but you get the point.
Ok. Good to know.

Thanks for the response!
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      05-13-2015, 06:17 PM   #102
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I can't believe I'm the first one in this thread who has had Stage 2 installed! My opinion of Stage 2 is that it is a noticeable increase in power over stage 1. My car always felt a little sluggish in the low rpm range (which I know is strange for these cars) and stage 2 has made an improvement in that area. Top end feels great too. Only weird thing about my car and it's always been like this even when stock, is that u have to almost catch the boost hitting just right. Otherwise u can mash the throttle and it just won't give you that pushing you back in your seat feeling. I remember someone else posting about this a while back as well so makes me feel better it's not just me! I also think EWG cars feel different than MWG cars. My buddies MWG car pulls at all times and builds boost a little differently. I drove his car the other day and it feels wayyyy different than mine. He has Dinan Stage 1 and Dinan exhaust. Lastly the intake is too quiet. You can barely hear it with the windows down so if you're planning on getting the intake for a cool sound you may be a bit disappointed. I do feel that the exhaust got s bit louder after stage 2 install maybe from the better breathing intake. Overall I'm happy and no issues thus far.
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      05-13-2015, 06:43 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-Dirty View Post
I can't believe I'm the first one in this thread who has had Stage 2 installed! My opinion of Stage 2 is that it is a noticeable increase in power over stage 1. My car always felt a little sluggish in the low rpm range (which I know is strange for these cars) and stage 2 has made an improvement in that area. Top end feels great too. Only weird thing about my car and it's always been like this even when stock, is that u have to almost catch the boost hitting just right. Otherwise u can mash the throttle and it just won't give you that pushing you back in your seat feeling. I remember someone else posting about this a while back as well so makes me feel better it's not just me! I also think EWG cars feel different than MWG cars. My buddies MWG car pulls at all times and builds boost a little differently. I drove his car the other day and it feels wayyyy different than mine. He has Dinan Stage 1 and Dinan exhaust. Lastly the intake is too quiet. You can barely hear it with the windows down so if you're planning on getting the intake for a cool sound you may be a bit disappointed. I do feel that the exhaust got s bit louder after stage 2 install maybe from the better breathing intake. Overall I'm happy and no issues thus far.
I'm sure you will be barraged with questions.... brace yourself...
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      05-13-2015, 10:50 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthmaster View Post
Damn pretty expensive. That after tax?
Plus tax. I can thank our weak dollar for the price increase.
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      05-14-2015, 12:12 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
Dinan only reports numbers at the crank.
So what would it be at the wheels? What loss factor would you use for a 3/435? Be interesting to see what "Unlock 10 HP and 15 lb-ft of torque in under an hour" for $600 actually looks like at the wheels.

Reason I asked is because back in the bad old days when I was running a 335is with only a piggy back & one of the other 335is guys was running a lot of Dinan equipment we looked like this on page 8 of the BMW 335i section of Drag Times in positions 148 & 149.

148) 12.583*^ 114.529mph 8.062 90.430mph 2.070 BMW 335i 335IS 2011 BEAR-AvHistory
149) 12.590*+ 108.740mph 8.130 87.740mph 1.960 BMW 335i S Dinan Stage 3 Tune 2011 BuraQ
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Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 05-14-2015 at 12:22 AM..
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      05-14-2015, 12:52 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
So what would it be at the wheels? What loss factor would you use for a 3/435? Be interesting to see what "Unlock 10 HP and 15 lb-ft of torque in under an hour" for $600 actually looks like at the wheels.

Reason I asked is because back in the bad old days when I was running a 335is with only a piggy back & one of the other 335is guys was running a lot of Dinan equipment we looked like this on page 8 of the BMW 335i section of Drag Times in positions 148 & 149.

148) 12.583*^ 114.529mph 8.062 90.430mph 2.070 BMW 335i 335IS 2011 BEAR-AvHistory
149) 12.590*+ 108.740mph 8.130 87.740mph 1.960 BMW 335i S Dinan Stage 3 Tune 2011 BuraQ
Get asked the drivetrain loss question a lot so I will resort to a response that has been made in the past since its pretty comprehensive... if you wanted a concise non elaborate answer it depends on the transmission but the drivetrain loss typically caps out at 12-15% ---

"We do use a Dynapack chassis dyno and a DTS engine dyno for all of our testing. Like most OE's, we publish our crank numbers, not wheel horsepower numbers, simply to keep things as accurate as possible. Dinan tests multiple cars with multiple runs and averages them so no one chassis dyno test would be representative. When we compare our engine Dyno Data to our chassis dyno data we find that most if not all chassis dynos, including ours, overstates the lower RPM torque values. Our chassis dyno does not do a coast down for inertia and friction corrections. If we are using the chassis dyno once we have performed multiple Chassis dyno runs and averaged them we apply different correction factors to each RPM to correct for these inflated torque numbers. All this is done to ensure the most accurate reporting to our customers. We list both Stock and Dinan numbers using the same corrections to ensure the comparison is fair. If we are using the Engine Dyno the data is just averaged over multiple runs to get a fair average performance. With both the engine dyno and chassis dyno we ensure the room is as close to standard weather conditions as possible and all dyno runs are performed in the same weather window to ensure comparisons are fair. In most cases Dinan Dyno numbers will be lower than those you will get at low RPM because of the inaccuracy at low RPM previously mentioned. Also in most cases Dinan's numbers will be higher at hi RPM because of the work we do to ensure proper heat exchanging that we find almost no one else does.

A few years ago, we put together a really in-depth article on our dyno process and how even slight variables can affect the outcome of any test.

http://dinancars.com/dinan-university/ - (Dynamometer Testing and The Modern BMW Engine)

It's a long article, but it gives you a really detailed looks at the process with a conclusion that has a good breakdown of what we covered. The most accurate thing we can say is that we've observed over 36 years of tuning, with most models we've tested, that the drivetrain loss is between 6.5 and 15 percent. Itís not as simple as a percentage, as it varies on car, transmission, RPM, vehicle speed and a myriad of other variables."
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      05-14-2015, 01:02 AM   #107
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Fair enough have seen the number -15% kicked around a lot & thought it to be a bit high.

That will give the guys some ability to factor & compare Dinan's numbers against most of the other vendors that post chassis (WHP) numbers with there products.

They will also have to understand that different types of chassis dyno will generate different numbers for the same piece of equipment. The Mustang system seems to be the most conservative while the most commonly used DynoJet is more liberal & will generate higher numbers.
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Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 05-14-2015 at 01:12 AM..
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      05-14-2015, 01:45 PM   #108
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Dinan Stage 2 and the Dinan CAI is ordered and will be here in 3 weeks or so!
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      05-14-2015, 08:50 PM   #109
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I'm getting a quote of about $10K plus tax for the signature package and the monoball kit...might start looking at getting it done in the USA - I'm close-ish to Michigan.

Last edited by jtuds; 05-14-2015 at 09:34 PM..
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      05-15-2015, 01:11 AM   #110
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I'm getting a quote of about $10K plus tax for the signature package and the monoball kit...might start looking at getting it done in the USA - I'm close-ish to Michigan.
Yikes... that exchange rate is bad.
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