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View Poll Results: Who will you vote for?
Conservative 80 46.78%
Labour 18 10.53%
Lib Dem 57 33.33%
Brexit Party 3 1.75%
Green 1 0.58%
Other 12 7.02%
Voters: 171. You may not vote on this poll

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      11-18-2019, 05:33 AM   #199
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I love that view - we dont want to be in the UK, our biggest trading partner, because we want to stay with the EU, our second biggest partner....

You couldnt make it up!

Vote Lib Dems and cancel Brexit....
It's never that simple though, for the politicians it's a good way to try and get the independence they want.

But for voters, both referendum results suggest quite a lot want to remain part of both!
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      11-18-2019, 06:04 AM   #200
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It's never that simple though, for the politicians it's a good way to try and get the independence they want.

But for voters, both referendum results suggest quite a lot want to remain part of both!
No, for Sturgeon its because she has f all else to talk about..... another one who doesn't understand basic finances it seems....
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      11-18-2019, 06:37 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by isleaiw1 View Post
I love that view - we dont want to be in the UK, our biggest trading partner, because we want to stay with the EU, our second biggest partner....

You couldnt make it up!

Vote Lib Dems and cancel Brexit....
The SNP just double down on the brexiter mindset.
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      11-18-2019, 06:52 AM   #202
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Vote Lib Dems and cancel Brexit....
And put Jeremy Corbyn in Number 10.....
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      11-18-2019, 07:04 AM   #203
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And put Jeremy Corbyn in Number 10.....
I suspect that the best he can hope for is a hung parliament - which to me would be a better option than BoJo with freedom to do what he wanted!

And of course if you spread that message of fear then everyone will stick to the shit main two and get a shit result!
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      11-18-2019, 11:42 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
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Originally Posted by isleaiw1 View Post
Vote Lib Dems and cancel Brexit....
And put Jeremy Corbyn in Number 10.....
I suspect that the best he can hope for is a hung parliament - which to me would be a better option than BoJo with freedom to do what he wanted!

And of course if you spread that message of fear then everyone will stick to the shit main two and get a shit result!
I agree it's unlikely Corbyn will win an overall majority but by the same token I think it's almost certain the Conservatives and Labour will end-up as the two largest parties and therefore your choice as Prime Minister is in effect Johnson or Corbyn. The Conservatives aren't going to form a coalition with a party that wants to stop Brexit so, if people vote tactically in an attempt to Remain, they need to realise that in doing so they're also increasing the chances of Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister - some might say that's spreading fear but I think it's just stating reality!

It sounds like you're comfortable with a minority Labour government if it stops Brexit and that's fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion and I suspect a number of otherwise sane people might come to the same conclusion; needless to say I just hope there won't be enough of you to put Corbyn in Number 10 come Friday 13th!
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      11-18-2019, 01:03 PM   #205
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I agree it's unlikely Corbyn will win an overall majority but by the same token I think it's almost certain the Conservatives and Labour will end-up as the two largest parties and therefore your choice as Prime Minister is in effect Johnson or Corbyn. The Conservatives aren't going to form a coalition with a party that wants to stop Brexit so, if people vote tactically in an attempt to Remain, they need to realise that in doing so they're also increasing the chances of Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister - some might say that's spreading fear but I think it's just stating reality!

It sounds like you're comfortable with a minority Labour government if it stops Brexit and that's fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion and I suspect a number of otherwise sane people might come to the same conclusion; needless to say I just hope there won't be enough of you to put Corbyn in Number 10 come Friday 13th!
No I would be really unhappy with Corbyn in charge of anything... but equally i think tactical voting can bring what you dont want too... which in my case is BoJo with a majority...and 5 years of his buffoonery...
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      11-18-2019, 01:37 PM   #206
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BTW, why does the Poll in this thread show Conservative as Red, Labour as Blue, Green and aquamarine, and Other as green ?

Russian interference ?
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      11-18-2019, 01:47 PM   #207
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No I would be really unhappy with Corbyn in charge of anything... but equally i think tactical voting can bring what you dont want too... which in my case is BoJo with a majority...and 5 years of his buffoonery...
But if you don't want BoJo with a majority you'd presumably be even less keen on him as leader of a minority government given the likely coalition partners in that scenario? That being the case you don't want him at all which (IMO) leaves Corbyn as the only alternative - comes down to who you most want to avoid!
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      11-18-2019, 02:02 PM   #208
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But if you don't want BoJo with a majority you'd presumably be even less keen on him as leader of a minority government given the likely coalition partners in that scenario? That being the case you don't want him at all which (IMO) leaves Corbyn as the only alternative - comes down to who you most want to avoid!
I would rather have neither of them with any power... I don’t believe farage will get many seats so I can see any hung parliament failing quickly and having another go...

But I’d like a Lib Dem majority. We all keep talking about a centrist party, well there you go.
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      11-18-2019, 02:20 PM   #209
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But I’d like a Lib Dem majority. We all keep talking about a centrist party, well there you go.
Your sky is very blue - I think they've next to no chance of winning an overall majority under our current electoral system!
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      11-18-2019, 02:57 PM   #210
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Your sky is very blue - I think they've next to no chance of winning an overall majority under our current electoral system!
Nor do I if I am honest but I won’t vote for the others so live in hope....
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      11-19-2019, 02:27 AM   #211
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John McDonnell on BBCr4today saying he wants to 'rewrite the rules of the economy'.
If youre looking for one overarching reason not to vote Labour, this is it. Economy destroyers, plain and simple, in pursuit of an archaic and failed ideology based on envy and ignorance.
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      11-19-2019, 03:49 AM   #212
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No, for Sturgeon its because she has f all else to talk about..... another one who doesn't understand basic finances it seems....
Sturgeon is a one trick pony

As her record on education, economy, health and justice in Scotland shows

The problem is the slavish cult that continue to vote for her and who see no wrong in anything she does
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      11-19-2019, 04:06 AM   #213
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Lib Dems not taking part in the debate tonight......can only do them good as the more Jo Swinson speaks the more she turns people off.
She reminds me of a junior member of a university debating team, eager to get involved but lacking any persuasion in her arguments.

Surely LD have a stronger leader amongst them?
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      11-19-2019, 04:09 AM   #214
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Lib Dems not taking part in the debate tonight......can only do them good as the more Jo Swinson speaks the more she turns people off.
She reminds me of a junior member of a university debating team, eager to get involved but lacking any persuasion in her arguments.

Surely LD have a stronger leader amongst them?
They do, Ed Davey, but he wasn't elected leader of the party, more's the pity.

PS Interesting that this election seems to revolve so much around the leaders. Maybe that's always been the case but this time it seems even more pronounced. Apart from Caroline Lucas, they're all utterly cr*p, with Corbyn in a league of cr*pness of his very own.
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      11-19-2019, 06:09 AM   #215
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Lib Dems not taking part in the debate tonight......can only do them good as the more Jo Swinson speaks the more she turns people off.
She reminds me of a junior member of a university debating team, eager to get involved but lacking any persuasion in her arguments.

Surely LD have a stronger leader amongst them?
But on that basis surely Labour can do better. And the Tories must be able to find someone who isnt a caricature of himself, with the morals of the gutter, only interested in him, who has no connection to half of the electorate in any shape or form.....

I'd rather vote for the junior debating society who wants to get involved than either of them..... one is the protest leader outside, and the other is captain of the rugger team, doesnt play but is involved in all the shenanigans, one of the lads....
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      11-19-2019, 07:49 AM   #216
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Any accountants out there?
I've just read the attached article from 7th Nov. Section 7 summarises Labour's proposed new rules on borrowing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/50325432

From the article - "......At the moment, if the government borrows £1m to build a road, that counts as £1m more added to the national debt. But under the new rule, the government now owns a new road which would be worth around £1m. The value of the new asset - the road - balances out the new debt, and public sector net worth hasn't changed at all. This means the government can borrow much more than it would have done under the old rules, as long as it uses that money to invest in an asset."

So assuming they can raise the money in the first place, Labour's new rule means that an investment appears as both asset and liability simultaneously on the balance sheet? Is that possible? How can a road in which you have invested £1m be treated as an asset, cancelling out the debt? Surely it's a liability, pure and simple, which is how it's treated under the rules of the current government. So, as long as every bit of expenditure is treated as an asset, they can spend as much as they like, literally, provided that they can borrow the money or raise the taxes.
F*ck me. Im no accountant but this sounds pretty dodgy to me and noone is talking about it in the press?
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      11-19-2019, 08:29 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
Any accountants out there?
I've just read the attached article from 7th Nov. Section 7 summarises Labour's proposed new rules on borrowing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/50325432

From the article - "......At the moment, if the government borrows £1m to build a road, that counts as £1m more added to the national debt. But under the new rule, the government now owns a new road which would be worth around £1m. The value of the new asset - the road - balances out the new debt, and public sector net worth hasn't changed at all. This means the government can borrow much more than it would have done under the old rules, as long as it uses that money to invest in an asset."

So assuming they can raise the money in the first place, Labour's new rule means that an investment appears as both asset and liability simultaneously on the balance sheet? Is that possible? How can a road in which you have invested £1m be treated as an asset, cancelling out the debt? Surely it's a liability, pure and simple, which is how it's treated under the rules of the current government. So, as long as every bit of expenditure is treated as an asset, they can spend as much as they like, literally, provided that they can borrow the money or raise the taxes.
F*ck me. Im no accountant but this sounds pretty dodgy to me and noone is talking about it in the press?
Good god. A road worth exactly what it cost to build and with zero depreciation.

Absolute nutters, the lot of them.
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      11-19-2019, 08:34 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
Any accountants out there?
I've just read the attached article from 7th Nov. Section 7 summarises Labour's proposed new rules on borrowing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/50325432

From the article - "......At the moment, if the government borrows £1m to build a road, that counts as £1m more added to the national debt. But under the new rule, the government now owns a new road which would be worth around £1m. The value of the new asset - the road - balances out the new debt, and public sector net worth hasn't changed at all. This means the government can borrow much more than it would have done under the old rules, as long as it uses that money to invest in an asset."

So assuming they can raise the money in the first place, Labour's new rule means that an investment appears as both asset and liability simultaneously on the balance sheet? Is that possible? How can a road in which you have invested £1m be treated as an asset, cancelling out the debt? Surely it's a liability, pure and simple, which is how it's treated under the rules of the current government. So, as long as every bit of expenditure is treated as an asset, they can spend as much as they like, literally, provided that they can borrow the money or raise the taxes.
F*ck me. Im no accountant but this sounds pretty dodgy to me and noone is talking about it in the press?
Well under accounting, everything is about double entry and an outflow of cash either creates and expense (in the P&L account) or an asset (in the balance sheet (or reduces a liability but lets keep it simple)....

So on the one hand they are correct, there is now a road, and under historic cost accounting it did indeed cost a £1m. However, we all know that assets at cost and the value of the asset are not the same - we all have cars that prove that!

So he is talking about historic cost accounting and trying to match an historic cost asset against a current value liability (as sadly liabilities dont depreciate)....

It might confuse your average voter but it is, as always with Labour finances, complete and utter bollox and why I cant vote for them...

Edit - PS thanks for sharing, I have borrowed it for the fans forum of my hometown football club, somewhat left of the views you would find on here!

Last edited by isleaiw1; 11-19-2019 at 08:41 AM..
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      11-19-2019, 08:46 AM   #219
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
Any accountants out there?
I've just read the attached article from 7th Nov. Section 7 summarises Labour's proposed new rules on borrowing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/50325432

From the article - "......At the moment, if the government borrows £1m to build a road, that counts as £1m more added to the national debt. But under the new rule, the government now owns a new road which would be worth around £1m. The value of the new asset - the road - balances out the new debt, and public sector net worth hasn't changed at all. This means the government can borrow much more than it would have done under the old rules, as long as it uses that money to invest in an asset."

So assuming they can raise the money in the first place, Labour's new rule means that an investment appears as both asset and liability simultaneously on the balance sheet? Is that possible? How can a road in which you have invested £1m be treated as an asset, cancelling out the debt? Surely it's a liability, pure and simple, which is how it's treated under the rules of the current government. So, as long as every bit of expenditure is treated as an asset, they can spend as much as they like, literally, provided that they can borrow the money or raise the taxes.
F*ck me. Im no accountant but this sounds pretty dodgy to me and noone is talking about it in the press?
Well under accounting, everything is about double entry and an outflow of cash either creates and expense (in the P&L account) or an asset (in the balance sheet (or reduces a liability but lets keep it simple)....

So on the one hand they are correct, there is now a road, and under historic cost accounting it did indeed cost a £1m. However, we all know that assets at cost and the value of the asset are not the same - we all have cars that prove that!

So he is talking about historic cost accounting and trying to match an historic cost asset against a current value liability (as sadly liabilities dont depreciate)....

It might confuse your average voter but it is, as always with Labour finances, complete and utter bollox and why I cant vote for them...
Thanks, I thought as much.
So, wrong basically, and as you say, not something which the average voter will give a t*ss about until the country has been bankrupted, there's no bread on the shelves and the lights are only on three days a week
Small wonder that Corbyn and McDonnell want out of the EU as well, as I suspect that EU spending rules might also have something to say about thier overall spending plans as % GDP and this accounting cheat, as well as their renationalisation plans. I know that Corbyn gets all the flack but McDonnell literally makes my flesh creep
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      11-19-2019, 09:07 AM   #220
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Lib Dems not taking part in the debate tonight......can only do them good as the more Jo Swinson speaks the more she turns people off.
She reminds me of a junior member of a university debating team, eager to get involved but lacking any persuasion in her arguments.

Surely LD have a stronger leader amongst them?
They do, Ed Davey, but he wasn't elected leader of the party, more's the pity.

PS Interesting that this election seems to revolve so much around the leaders. Maybe that's always been the case but this time it seems even more pronounced. Apart from Caroline Lucas, they're all utterly cr*p, with Corbyn in a league of cr*pness of his very own.
With a lot of talk about the UK needing a decent party and leader to occupy the political centre ground, I can't help but think that, were he younger and still active in politics, someone like David Owen would stand head and shoulders above the current shower of excrement. I've always thought he was one of the best Prime Ministers we've never had and, even though I'm a serial Tory voter, I'd put my faith in him above any of the other leaders we have at the moment....
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