[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by lens

That's the issue though, 90% of garages don't use torque wrenches, finding that 10% is difficult as well as they're usually booked a few weeks.

Might be true in Canada, but this is a UK forum and it's not the case here (except maybe some fast-fit tyre places).

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by lens

That's the issue though, 90% of garages don't use torque wrenches, finding that 10% is difficult as well as they're usually booked a few weeks.

I'll usually change the lugs every 4-5 years, but normally I'll go stud conversion anyways, and swap nuts every 2-3.

As one of the guys said up above, you can always loosen the lugs after the job is done and torque them yourself, but the damage would be already done if overtorqued.

There is a big difference in abuse of wheel bolts, than proper use and specified torque settings.

I'd not allow any tire shop to do anything than correctly torque my wheel bolts.

I make that known to any fitter. I've even stood with a young lad and asked him has he been trained to use a torque wrench correctly? Then I watched him and commended him on doing it correctly and using the crosswise tightening procedure.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Eddamoo

Those bolts look fine to me. Its a bit of surface rust that's all. A quick wire brush and it'll be fine.

I've taken wheels off hundreds of cars, and they ALL have a little rust on them.

Agree, they will look so different if cleaned up. Unless there is concern (evidence) for overtightening, it is only cosmetic.

Plus, they don't fail the important visual taper area check from BMW.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by lens

That's the issue though, 90% of garages don't use torque wrenches, finding that 10% is difficult as well as they're usually booked a few weeks.

I'll usually change the lugs every 4-5 years, but normally I'll go stud conversion anyways, and swap nuts every 2-3.

As one of the guys said up above, you can always loosen the lugs after the job is done and torque them yourself, but the damage would be already done if overtorqued.

I’ve given up on that. I only trust myself. I took it to a good tire shop that told me and I saw that they use torque sticks on their air guns to prevent over torque. Well stick must have been out of spec- too tight!

And I use an excellent BMW shop where they are meticulous. Saw the owner using a torque wrench to tighten my wheel bolts. Well, torque wrench was either out of spec or set incorrectly- way way too tight!

[Allworth]

As I haven't owned car from new, thus I can not be sure how it was kept, I bought a set of new OEM look Lug Bolts and a new set of Mcgard locking nuts.
These will go when a tyre change is due.
Mcgard (black edition):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/McGard-2722.../dp/B0048EJON8
Wheel bolts OEM style:

[TurboWeasel]

I personally would change the bolts every 3rd set of tyres because they can get stretched if over torqued, which increases the chance of them backing out of the wheel.

I watched a YT video recently where a shop measured over 1mm of stretch on BMW bolts, so definitely worth doing.

For reference, they are currently £4.29 + VAT each from BMW dealers, so obviously an online source is better value.

[Allworth]

Now when I found an opportunity to do the bolts, here is a quick report
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fwiNeys09jk

[Ennoch]

This strikes me as being one of those occasions where forums dive overboard and then everyone tries to outdo each other. Replacing bolts every three sets of tires; ie removing the wheels three times ruins the bolts? Not a chance. Swapping winters and summers about would mean that you then need to change your bolts annually I mean, seriously, they're M14 bolts and are strong, even if 8.8 steel is used rather than 10.9. To those advocating replacing genuine BMW bolts that have light surface corrosion on the head with bolts of unknown origin from eBay is mental. They may be great bolts, but there's a world of difference in strength between good quality and poor quality steel and unless you can be sure of their origin, you have no way of knowing which ones you have.

Let's look at this another way; how many wheels do you see falling off cars because of snapped bolts? It's a complete non-issue. Even cars that have been in big crashes still have their wheels attached in 99.9% of instances, and where the wheel is no longer attached it's usually because the thing it's attached to has fallen off, not because the four or five studs/bolts have sheared. Remember that the spigot takes the vertical load and the bolts merely clamp it to that. The hub face is what holds the rotational force thanks to friction (why you don't grease the face). If you're cornering then the bolts do take a percentage of the total force at the top of the outside wheel and at the bottom of the wheel on the inside wheel, but again, it's not the total force involved. If you're worried about threads and such then why aren't you also changing your hubs too, after all they're the same metal and undergo the same force.

I liken this to people who now change their water pump every time they do their timing belt. 'oh, but it's cheap insurance' they say, forgetting that the reason it came about was because some cheaply made VW water pumps used to seize (others would disintegrate) and so it was a good idea to change it out. Except that wasn't a problem on most cars, and yet somehow it became a standard forum recommendation regardless of car, so you have people replacing perfectly good parts unnecessarily. It's the same with those who change out their perfectly fine discs when changing pads and throw in new sensors too, even though the old ones are untouched. Some people worry too much and then, rather than dealing with that worry, try to get other people to worry more too so as to validate their own feelings on it. Yes, it's absolutely best to torque the wheel bolts to spec. Is it imperative? No. The biggest issue with overtightened bolts is not them snapping, it's being unable to get the buggers off late on a rainy night when you're stuck at the side of the road with a puncture and a stupid little 12" wheel brace. Not that cars come with spare wheels any more so that argument's moot.

It's quite easy to look at a bolt and see whether the head's been damaged by over tightening or heavy use with coming on and off as the edges of the hex will have become rounded or distorted. Even then, I think there are bigger worries in driving.

[xenon]

^ Nailed it.

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by Ennoch

This strikes me as being one of those occasions where forums dive overboard and then everyone tries to outdo each other. Replacing bolts every three sets of tires; ie removing the wheels three times ruins the bolts? Not a chance. Swapping winters and summers about would mean that you then need to change your bolts annually I mean, seriously, they're M14 bolts and are strong, even if 8.8 steel is used rather than 10.9. To those advocating replacing genuine BMW bolts that have light surface corrosion on the head with bolts of unknown origin from eBay is mental. They may be great bolts, but there's a world of difference in strength between good quality and poor quality steel and unless you can be sure of their origin, you have no way of knowing which ones you have.

Let's look at this another way; how many wheels do you see falling off cars because of snapped bolts? It's a complete non-issue. Even cars that have been in big crashes still have their wheels attached in 99.9% of instances, and where the wheel is no longer attached it's usually because the thing it's attached to has fallen off, not because the four or five studs/bolts have sheared. Remember that the spigot takes the vertical load and the bolts merely clamp it to that. The hub face is what holds the rotational force thanks to friction (why you don't grease the face). If you're cornering then the bolts do take a percentage of the total force at the top of the outside wheel and at the bottom of the wheel on the inside wheel, but again, it's not the total force involved. If you're worried about threads and such then why aren't you also changing your hubs too, after all they're the same metal and undergo the same force.

I liken this to people who now change their water pump every time they do their timing belt. 'oh, but it's cheap insurance' they say, forgetting that the reason it came about was because some cheaply made VW water pumps used to seize (others would disintegrate) and so it was a good idea to change it out. Except that wasn't a problem on most cars, and yet somehow it became a standard forum recommendation regardless of car, so you have people replacing perfectly good parts unnecessarily. It's the same with those who change out their perfectly fine discs when changing pads and throw in new sensors too, even though the old ones are untouched. Some people worry too much and then, rather than dealing with that worry, try to get other people to worry more too so as to validate their own feelings on it. Yes, it's absolutely best to torque the wheel bolts to spec. Is it imperative? No. The biggest issue with overtightened bolts is not them snapping, it's being unable to get the buggers off late on a rainy night when you're stuck at the side of the road with a puncture and a stupid little 12" wheel brace. Not that cars come with spare wheels any more so that argument's moot.

It's quite easy to look at a bolt and see whether the head's been damaged by over tightening or heavy use with coming on and off as the edges of the hex will have become rounded or distorted. Even then, I think there are bigger worries in driving.

I've only ever replaced wheel bolts when I've bought the car and the original ones are horrible/scabby/rusty, or I've done a stud conversion...

After that; they've stayed with the car and never any issues whatsoever...!

As you said; these things don't just snap!

[Allworth]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

If you take your car to one of those places the solution is not to keep changing the bolts, it's to take your car somewhere else.

Tightening bolts with torque wrench normally when DIY,
but had few ocasions tightening with a breaker bar,
doing probably around 300nm waiting for it to click @ 140nm
Id also expect tyre fitters to torque bolts