[MarkY]

Originally Posted by darksilkx1

Here is the interesting thing I found in my research yesterday though, Audi offers 1.9% financing up to 60months and 2.4 up to 72. I cant remember BMW ever doing that except for CPOs. They also do 1500 conquest cash for folks moving over from BMW. Decision not made by any means, but doing the due diligence it looks better to buy vs lease with Audi which is fine with me.

I think I remember BMW advertising finance rates at 1.9% a few years ago but that was contingent on paying MSRP. Although, maybe it was another manufacture.

[darksilkx1]

Originally Posted by MarkY

I think I remember BMW advertising finance rates at 1.9% a few years ago but that was contingent on paying MSRP. Although, maybe it was another manufacture.

They did have 1.9% as recently as last year on some models but only up to 36months. 37 to 59 was 2.9 and 60 above was 3.9.

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by e92miami

Oh okay, I thought you were comparing the 335 to the 2.0t as long as you are talking about the 328 and the 2.0T then that's fine but for 55k that 328 is loaded. And are you willing to drive a FWD car...yikes. At that point I would look at Toyota too.

The whole point about this A6 discussion is that we will have a nicely equipped 2.0T with Quattro and the same ZF 8spd AT as the F30 for under $50K. That includes navigation, xenon, leather, voice control, keyless entry, handwriting pad, etc, etc.

I tried optioning out a 328i xDrive on bmwusa, and it seems that when similarly equipped the pricing will be very very close, and the Audi might even be slightly cheaper. Yes, the F30 will be somewhat more fun to drive and quicker, but the new A6 is also supposed to be quite sporty, and it certainly is a very nice looking car inside and out.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by darksilkx1

They did have 1.9% as recently as last year on some models but only up to 36months. 37 to 59 was 2.9 and 60 above was 3.9.

I got 0.9% on a 5 year. $1100 total interest. lol Spoiled. I'll never pay anything over 3% now.

[PaulBailey@ltbmw]

Wish I would have waited to order the M-Sport.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

Audi has better, streamline trim packages than BMW. This is non-negotiable.

Of course, I dont know why we're comparing the A6 to the F30, apples-to-oranges. When the 2013 A4 hits, it is going to have a lot of the interior goodies / MMI / infotainment that the A6 has and it seems that it will be cheaper. Man, if the S4 and the 335i Msport come in at the same price, it's hard to make a case for the 335i.

The S4 and 335i Msport do come in close in price.
The S4 starts higher, but it includes a lot of things you have to add to the 335i, and once added they are very close in price.

As for Msport, it's just cosmetic, you don't have to add it to the 335i to make it more competitive to the S4.

It's not hard to make a case for the 335i at all.
You either like the S4 or you like the 335i.
The S4 has tested faster than the 335i, and when the S4 is optioned with the LSD, it's handling rates better.

Again, you either like the S4 or the 335i.
I test drove both, I chose the 335i.
The S4 is a very sweet automobile. It didn't feel as good over all to me as the 335i does.
IN fact, I drove the S4 back to back with an A4 2.0T quattro sport.
The S4 is more powerful, and the dual clutch is MUCH better than the 8sp AT in the A4. But, I felt more comfortable in the A4's seats, and the A4 felt a bit more cohesive in ride and handling compared to the S4.
Strange, but that's how it felt to me.
I was expecting to like the S4 a LOT more, and really be blown away by it, as I had an 06 A4 2.0T sport and love it.
The S4 just didn't feel that special over the A4 other than the sweet SC engine and dual clutch.

Still, I prefer the 335i, others will prefer the S4.
Seems the S4 is more for you.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Propagator

If I told you that I would happily cross-shop a well equipped 328xi with a similarly equipped A6 2.0T for my wife if the prices were similar, would that make it ok to compare them? I do know that the A6 is meant to be a 5 series competitor, but if Audi is willing to be so aggressive with the pricing, why should I be all dogmatic about it and refuse to compare the two just because they are meant to be in different classes?

The fact is that the F30 has grown both in size and in character, while Audi has been making a steady march towards the sporty end of the spectrum. Given two German AWD sports sedans with electric steering, turbo-4, similar interior volume and even similar price, I think many people would cross-shop the two.

If you like the A6 and the 328i, and want to decide between the two, then by all means you can cross shop them. There is NO reason why one can't shop for different types of cars in order to see what they want.
I shopped sedans with coupes with convertibles from all manner of manufacturers.

As for the pricing differences, of course it's there.
However, BMW's resale is greater than Audi's. That's reflected in their respective residuals, which are set by the market.
A BMW may cost more than an Audi, but when you go to sell them later, you'll get difference back for the BMW, and may even do better, as it will lose less of it's value.
IN the end, the higher prices BMW will likely end up being a better value.
The question is, do you want to pay the initial cost up front?

As for leasing, there is NO question, BMW beats Audi all day long.
For the monthly I will be paying for my 335i Msport, I can only get a nicely optioned A4 2.0T quattro sport.
For leasing, it's clear that either 328i or 335i is the better lease, and that's also directly related to it's better residual.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by trfortin69

Since I'm on my 3rd HPFP and BMW NA lied to me about the first one when I called them out on the power loss. Thanks to their lies I'll be switching over to S4 as soon as I can, but my BMw ain't worth crap on a trade due to n54issues so I have dish out big bucks for a down payment now.... Thanks BmW from one pissed customer. Fat chance I'll buy another one.

The N54 did have HPFP issues.
I have an 09 135i.

However, your assertion that the 135i is "worth crap" due to the N54 "issues" is BS.
N54 resale is quite good, and it's holding it's value pretty well compared to any other brands competing with it.

As for those "issues", the HPFP has been resolved.
BMW issued an in house recall and replaced any N54 that came in asking for the replacement pump. Plus, BMW has given all N54's an extended 10yr-100/120K warranty to cover any potential future HPFP issue.
So far, the pump used for the recall has worked just fine.
HPFP failures are only coming from N54 cars that have not yet come to get the recall performed.

If you want proper value for your 135i, then don't trade it to an Audi dealer. Sell it privately. No one gets great value on a trade in, as most people expect near retail for their trade in, when trade in is more like wholesale. Don't blame BMW for that, blame the market.

If you want an S4, that's cool.
But, don't write BS about your BMW 135i.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by WJGreer

I tend to agree. I have a psychological barrier to car price at about $55,000. It's hard for me to imagine spending more, even if my income supports it.

I've bought CPO in the past to afford the car I wanted, and that has been a good experience overall. This time around, though, I'm jonesing for an F32 335 xDrive coupe, so I'm three or four years out from having CPO access to one of those (at the age I target). Not sure my E60 will hold up another four years.

I don't know what I am going to do.

Why do you need to spend $55K for a 3?

I'm getting a 2013 335i Msport with premium and sport AT with HK audio, MSPR about $51K and selling for a bit under $48K.

Just because BMW has a plethora of high priced options, do you really need them?

If you want a greater level of options, then chose the 328i sport instead.
It's an excellent automobile with an impressive engine.

This whole notion that you have to spend $55K plus is bogus.
You can build a 3 for $55K and over, but certainly you don't have to, and you will still have all that BMW driving magic.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by darksilkx1

The 2.0T is getting Quattro and the 8spd ZF in 12.

It already has it, and I test drove it.
The AT in the Audi does not work as well as it does in the F30.
ZF still specs things according to manufacturer ordering the trans.

Looking at the gearing, Audi screwed up their final drive.
Trans drive gears are the same as that used in the F30, but final drive is taller, and that hurts the A4 2.0T in accel compared to the 328i.
They could have gone with a shorter final drive and probably beat the 328i in accel tests, but that would have hurt the MPG, which is not as good.
The A4 has to deal with greater weight and greater friction from the AWD.
As it is though, the A4 2.0T accel numbers are nearly the same as the 328i, even though the 2.0T has less HP.
I'm sure Audi is addressing this power and MPG issue, and will correct it favorably, soon. I love Audi's and I think we all benefit as Audi gets better and better and keeps nipping and biting BMW.
The A3 sedan will be a game changer, and BMW will be caught with it's pants down, at least for a while, until they realize they need a 1 series based sedan.
That A3 sedan looks VERY SWEET. I wish it were already here, I'd be shopping it.

[Ron Scott]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Why do you need to spend $55K for a 3?

I'm getting a 2013 335i Msport with premium and sport AT with HK audio, MSPR about $51K and selling for a bit under $48K.

Just because BMW has a plethora of high priced options, do you really need them?

If you want a greater level of options, then chose the 328i sport instead.
It's an excellent automobile with an impressive engine.

This whole notion that you have to spend $55K plus is bogus.
You can build a 3 for $55K and over, but certainly you don't have to, and you will still have all that BMW driving magic.

+1, and I'll go you one better: A base Sport 335i is $42.8.

If you need a car that polishes your toenails...WTF? The CAR is minus the accouterments of the modern age. If you forget leather, I'll-drive-for-you-"assist" bullshit, concert-hall/radio bullshit, AT, metal-in-paint, heat-my-ass-in-winter bullshit, etc., you can get an significantly upgraded "3", i.e., a 335i, for low $40ks.

Guys who claim they love the BMW thing and then load-up the lux crap on a 328 instead of buying a 335, or buy a lesser car, make me laugh. You people don't love the BMW ride, yuo love your polished toenails. Enjoy!

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by Ron Scott

+1, and I'll go you one better: A base Sport 335i is $42.8.

If you need a car that polishes your toenails...WTF? The CAR is minus the accouterments of the modern age. If you forget leather, I'll-drive-for-you-"assist" bullshit, concert-hall/radio bullshit, AT, metal-in-paint, heat-my-ass-in-winter bullshit, etc., you can get an significantly upgraded "3", i.e., a 335i, for low $40ks.

Guys who claim they love the BMW thing and then load-up the lux crap on a 328 instead of buying a 335, or buy a lesser car, make me laugh. You people don't love the BMW ride, yuo love your polished toenails. Enjoy!

Nice.

[JustinTJ]

Originally Posted by Ron Scott

+1, and I'll go you one better: A base Sport 335i is $42.8.

If you need a car that polishes your toenails...WTF? The CAR is minus the accouterments of the modern age. If you forget leather, I'll-drive-for-you-"assist" bullshit, concert-hall/radio bullshit, AT, metal-in-paint, heat-my-ass-in-winter bullshit, etc., you can get an significantly upgraded "3", i.e., a 335i, for low $40ks.

Guys who claim they love the BMW thing and then load-up the lux crap on a 328 instead of buying a 335, or buy a lesser car, make me laugh. You people don't love the BMW ride, yuo love your polished toenails. Enjoy!

This makes me smile, as I agree.

But a base Sports 335 is 45,395 with the line and destination.

[ATX78703]

Originally Posted by RPM90

The S4 and 335i Msport do come in close in price.
The S4 starts higher, but it includes a lot of things you have to add to the 335i, and once added they are very close in price.

As for Msport, it's just cosmetic, you don't have to add it to the 335i to make it more competitive to the S4.

It's not hard to make a case for the 335i at all.
You either like the S4 or you like the 335i.
The S4 has tested faster than the 335i, and when the S4 is optioned with the LSD, it's handling rates better.

Again, you either like the S4 or the 335i.
I test drove both, I chose the 335i.
The S4 is a very sweet automobile. It didn't feel as good over all to me as the 335i does.
IN fact, I drove the S4 back to back with an A4 2.0T quattro sport.
The S4 is more powerful, and the dual clutch is MUCH better than the 8sp AT in the A4. But, I felt more comfortable in the A4's seats, and the A4 felt a bit more cohesive in ride and handling compared to the S4.
Strange, but that's how it felt to me.
I was expecting to like the S4 a LOT more, and really be blown away by it, as I had an 06 A4 2.0T sport and love it.
The S4 just didn't feel that special over the A4 other than the sweet SC engine and dual clutch.

Still, I prefer the 335i, others will prefer the S4.
Seems the S4 is more for you.

Actually, i'm a BMW guy and live in a place where i don't need AWD, so i will usually try to make the case for the bimmer. My point was more along the line of the S4 is marketed/positioned slightly higher than a 335i. In addition to the "exclusivity" factor (b/c it is quite a bit more rare than a 335i), Audi has distinguished it quite a bit from the A4 (lsd, dct, int/ext bits).

I think that gives the S4 more "value" which is why I was mentioning it in terms of price. I.e., if I'm paying 55-60K, i'd rather get an S4 than a 335i.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

Actually, i'm a BMW guy and live in a place where i don't need AWD, so i will usually try to make the case for the bimmer. My point was more along the line of the S4 is marketed/positioned slightly higher than a 335i. In addition to the "exclusivity" factor (b/c it is quite a bit more rare than a 335i), Audi has distinguished it quite a bit from the A4 (lsd, dct, int/ext bits).

I think that gives the S4 more "value" which is why I was mentioning it in terms of price. I.e., if I'm paying 55-60K, i'd rather get an S4 than a 335i.

That's true. The S4 does distinguish itself nicely over the A4.
The 335i is pretty much the 328i with a more powerful engine and different brakes.
Even the Msport doesn't distinguish itself from the sport line in any meaningful way.
In the least the Msport would have more "special" if BMW added the dynamic handling VSS and adaptive suspension and just increased the Msport price by about $500-$700. Yes, you can still get those things in other 3's, but it it's already included, that still makes for a more special package.
Heck even a LSD for the Msport would have made it "special".

[ATX78703]

Originally Posted by RPM90

That's true. The S4 does distinguish itself nicely over the A4.
The 335i is pretty much the 328i with a more powerful engine and different brakes.
Even the Msport doesn't distinguish itself from the sport line in any meaningful way.
In the least the Msport would have more "special" if BMW added the dynamic handling VSS and adaptive suspension and just increased the Msport price by about $500-$700. Yes, you can still get those things in other 3's, but it it's already included, that still makes for a more special package.
Heck even a LSD for the Msport would have made it "special".

+1 totally agree - hopefully an ///M performance line will fill that niche, but i'm sure it won't come cheap...