F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > B58 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Stage 1 or 2? (91 fuel)
ARMA SPEED
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-19-2020, 06:48 PM   #1
BAKKI
Private
5
Rep
62
Posts

Drives: 2017 440i
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Stage 1 or 2? (91 fuel)

About to cop a tune for the F32 either BM3 or MHD. I already have a CTS catted DP ready to go.

Now my question is if there's any drawbacks to going directly to stage 2 if:
- I only get 91 gas (CA)
- Car is a MT
- First time modding anything

I want to just go stage 2 if possible, but I'm wondering if I should start slow w/ stage 1, see how I like it, get used to shifting gears with the new power before moving up (worried about hitting the clutch limit). I'm also wondering if there are any technical drawbacks to running stage 2 on 91 gas, besides lower power which I'm fine with.

Help a noob out
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2020, 06:59 PM   #2
G.Newt
Captain
299
Rep
658
Posts

Drives: 340i xDrive 6-Speed
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (0)

BM3 has ACN (Arizona, California, Nevada, and other low grade fuel) maps. So there is a Stage 2 91 ACN. You should have access to ethanol around you though. The ethanol maps are great, also, you can add a gallon or two to clean up timing and be able to run the regular maps (will need to log to verify).

And on regular Stage 2 91, my clutch started to slip. Replaced with 335is/550i clutch and moved to the Stage 2 E30 map. No slipping.
__________________
2016 340i xDrive 6-speed.
FBO. Stage 2 E30 BM3. 440hp / 515lb-ft (Mustang Dyno)
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2020, 07:37 PM   #3
BAKKI
Private
5
Rep
62
Posts

Drives: 2017 440i
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Newt View Post
BM3 has ACN (Arizona, California, Nevada, and other low grade fuel) maps. So there is a Stage 2 91 ACN. You should have access to ethanol around you though. The ethanol maps are great, also, you can add a gallon or two to clean up timing and be able to run the regular maps (will need to log to verify).

And on regular Stage 2 91, my clutch started to slip. Replaced with 335is/550i clutch and moved to the Stage 2 E30 map. No slipping.
@G.Newt thanks that's good to know. Were you experiencing slippage frequently or only when you were really slamming through the gears? I'm hoping to avoid replacing the clutch if I can help it. If it's the former then maybe I should play it safe and stick to Stage 1

I've also heard some people having luck with just a CDV delete on the stock f30 clutch https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1628178&page=3
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2020, 08:16 PM   #4
G.Newt
Captain
299
Rep
658
Posts

Drives: 340i xDrive 6-Speed
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAKKI View Post
@G.Newt thanks that's good to know. Were you experiencing slippage frequently or only when you were really slamming through the gears? I'm hoping to avoid replacing the clutch if I can help it. If it's the former then maybe I should play it safe and stick to Stage 1

I've also heard some people having luck with just a CDV delete on the stock f30 clutch https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1628178&page=3
On the FB group, all of us B58 6MT owners have had to upgrade the clutch. It's a necessity at this point.
__________________
2016 340i xDrive 6-speed.
FBO. Stage 2 E30 BM3. 440hp / 515lb-ft (Mustang Dyno)
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2020, 09:00 PM   #5
chrisp3
New Member
2
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: 340i MT
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Newt View Post
On the FB group, all of us B58 6MT owners have had to upgrade the clutch. It's a necessity at this point.
+1. Thank you for your service

Had to replace mine as soon as stage 2+ was loaded up
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2020, 08:27 AM   #6
mike@x-ph.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
mike@x-ph.com's Avatar
United_States
13128
Rep
141,330
Posts


Drives: 2007 e92 335i / 2013 F30 328
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (20)

Expected gains with each stage (bootmod3)

Stage 1 91 octane: up to 18% HP / 26% TQ
Stage 1 93 octane: up to 20% HP / 26% TQ
Stage 1 E30 octane: up to 25% HP / 30% TQ

Stage 2 91 octane: up to 24% HP / 32% TQ
Stage 2 93 octane: up to 26% HP / 32% TQ
Stage 2 E30 octane: up to 30% HP / 35% TQ
Stage 2 Racegas: up to 30% HP / 35% TQ

Stage 2+ 91 octane: up to 37% HP / 62% TQ
Stage 2+ 93 octane: up to 43%HP / 68% TQ
Stage 2+ E30 octane: up to 47%HP / 73% TQ
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2020, 02:58 PM   #7
BAKKI
Private
5
Rep
62
Posts

Drives: 2017 440i
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Expected gains with each stage (bootmod3)

Stage 1 91 octane: up to 18% HP / 26% TQ
Stage 1 93 octane: up to 20% HP / 26% TQ
Stage 1 E30 octane: up to 25% HP / 30% TQ

Stage 2 91 octane: up to 24% HP / 32% TQ
Stage 2 93 octane: up to 26% HP / 32% TQ
Stage 2 E30 octane: up to 30% HP / 35% TQ
Stage 2 Racegas: up to 30% HP / 35% TQ

Stage 2+ 91 octane: up to 37% HP / 62% TQ
Stage 2+ 93 octane: up to 43%HP / 68% TQ
Stage 2+ E30 octane: up to 47%HP / 73% TQ
Have you ever seen anyone go Stage 1 + DP? What kind of power could I expect with that setup?
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2020, 06:37 PM   #8
mike@x-ph.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
mike@x-ph.com's Avatar
United_States
13128
Rep
141,330
Posts


Drives: 2007 e92 335i / 2013 F30 328
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAKKI View Post
Have you ever seen anyone go Stage 1 + DP? What kind of power could I expect with that setup?
Never tried it, i would assume ~ 10whp more than stage 1
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2020, 12:26 PM   #9
Ifellapart
Private First Class
42
Rep
135
Posts

Drives: BMW 340i
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Orange County

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAKKI View Post
Have you ever seen anyone go Stage 1 + DP? What kind of power could I expect with that setup?
Thic whips on youtube actually has an intresting video ont his for his supra.



he dynod the car in stage 1 and 2 with the same mods (dp, intake) and got the exact same number in both stages.

In other threads i've seen, it seems the difference between the two stages is more about timing. In stage 2 you actually will run lower boost but wider timing to allow more air to go in. If this is true i guess stage 2 is technically "safer" as it's not pushing your turbo too hard.
__________________
2016 340i / M-Sport / Track Handling Package / MPPSK
Appreciate 0
      11-23-2020, 01:31 PM   #10
BAKKI
Private
5
Rep
62
Posts

Drives: 2017 440i
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifellapart View Post
Thic whips on youtube actually has an intresting video ont his for his supra.



he dynod the car in stage 1 and 2 with the same mods (dp, intake) and got the exact same number in both stages.

In other threads i've seen, it seems the difference between the two stages is more about timing. In stage 2 you actually will run lower boost but wider timing to allow more air to go in. If this is true i guess stage 2 is technically "safer" as it's not pushing your turbo too hard.
Ifellapart That's really interesting. I assumed stage 1+DP would still be more conservative than stage 2+DP. Could you link me to the timing discussion?

I'm curious if there are differences in AFR as well -- maybe one of the maps runs richer? (Though the video shows pretty much identical between 1 and 2)
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2020, 03:13 PM   #11
TheFanatic
Private First Class
TheFanatic's Avatar
United_States
49
Rep
153
Posts

Drives: BMW 340i
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifellapart View Post
Thic whips on youtube actually has an intresting video ont his for his supra.

he dynod the car in stage 1 and 2 with the same mods (dp, intake) and got the exact same number in both stages.

In other threads i've seen, it seems the difference between the two stages is more about timing. In stage 2 you actually will run lower boost but wider timing to allow more air to go in. If this is true i guess stage 2 is technically "safer" as it's not pushing your turbo too hard.
when I switched from a 91 tune to a 93 tune (stage 2) I gained 32hp and 31tq.

Granted fueling is important but we are all under the impression that stage 2 makes more power because it has to have less back pressure from a catless or high flow DP. I would be curious to see other peoples results.
Appreciate 0
      11-25-2020, 02:42 AM   #12
eluded
2JZ-GTE
eluded's Avatar
Bulgaria
2450
Rep
3,305
Posts

Drives: 340 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Sofia

iTrader: (0)

91cali fuel is really bad and this engine loves timing.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:37 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST