[kern417]

Originally Posted by AleksanderSuave

Oddly enough..the plugs in my m240ix were already NGK 94201..identical plug and part number. Wasnt expecting that to be the case.

Originally Posted by OzBMR

My car was built in 2016 and had Champion plugs from the factory

Mine was built in 2017 and had champions. I also know someone who had NGKs in his 2016. Both were factory options.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by not1337

Trying to figure out why my timing looks so bad. BM3 Stg 2 catless dp, just changed plugs and gapped to 0.022.

Log #1:https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f1e...729b753dbae823
Log #2: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f1e...0b434801a15eef

Bad fuel or something else?

Probably. Also check your intake filter. Can you try the 91 map or add some E85?

[eeee36M3]

Originally Posted by not1337

Trying to figure out why my timing looks so bad. BM3 Stg 2 catless dp, just changed plugs and gapped to 0.022.

Log #1:https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f1e...729b753dbae823
Log #2: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f1e...0b434801a15eef

Bad fuel or something else?

I had similar results, STG2, AA catted DP, 2016 340xi, and I was using the 91 tune, with 93 fuel. I'm going to burn off the rest of this fuel, and try some Mobil 1 or Sunoco 93 Fuel and see if it's any better. I think I read that letting the DME adapt to the timing settings for a few 100 miles before doing pulls will help, after putting in different types of fuel?
Next I was going to try a higher octane fuel (maybe use Boostane).
Interesting comment on the Air Filter above. I checked mine, and it's pretty clean and looks new. Would an upgraded (high flow) air filter help with timing?

[AleksanderSuave]

Originally Posted by kern417

Mine was built in 2017 and had champions. I also know someone who had NGKs in his 2016. Both were factory options.

Interesting. Curious if at stock gap the 2 are identical or if theres any difference.

[yokata]

Guys Paul is close to finish my e30 map ,but i dont like my timing it goes up and down and alot corrections ,any ideas, maybe i should add more E, what you think?Car feels strong though and is definitely faster then 100ron map 0.4 off from 100-200time https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f1f...0b43477ced69db

[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by yokata

Guys Paul is close to finish my e30 map ,but i dont like my timing it goes up and down and alot corrections ,any ideas, maybe i should add more E, what you think?Car feels strong though and is definitely faster then 100ron map 0.4 off from 100-200time https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f1f...0b43477ced69db

Have you tried swapping cylinder 1 and 2 coil packs yet to see if timing follows the coil? Cylinder 1 can be a bit more laggy for timing, more so in your car perhaps.

You could try more ethanol, fuel rail pressure looks OK and it wouldn't hurt to try.

To me it looks like the timing variation is more so to do with the target and limit values in the tune.

They could look to increase the Load Limit to 220 between 3000 - 4000 RPM as the car is currently exceeding the Load Limit there. This may help to achieve more consistent Load and Timing.

Could also fill the cells in the Target Timing table further to the right (higher Load) with the same ignition target values e.g. between 200 and 220 Load and 3400 - 3650 RPM target 8.5 degrees.

At 6500 RPM and Load 213 for some reason timing target is 11.6 where at similar Load and RPM point the surrounding timing target is 14? Doesn't make sense.

Making about 550 WHP by the looks of the log, adjusted for altitude. Nice power and the turbo looks to be a nice upgrade.

[yokata]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

Have you tried swapping cylinder 1 and 2 coil packs yet to see if timing follows the coil? Cylinder 1 can be a bit more laggy for timing, more so in your car perhaps.

You could try more ethanol, fuel rail pressure looks OK and it wouldn't hurt to try.

To me it looks like the timing variation is more so to do with the target and limit values in the tune.

They could look to increase the Load Limit to 220 between 3000 - 4000 RPM as the car is currently exceeding the Load Limit there. This may help to achieve more consistent Load and Timing.

Could also fill the cells in the Target Timing table further to the right (higher Load) with the same ignition target values e.g. between 200 and 220 Load and 3400 - 3650 RPM target 8.5 degrees.

At 6500 RPM and Load 213 for some reason timing target is 11.6 where at similar Load and RPM point the surrounding timing target is 14? Doesn't make sense.

Making about 550 WHP by the looks of the log, adjusted for altitude. Nice power and the turbo looks to be a nice upgrade.

Ill add few liters E tomorrow and make new logs, E analyzer will be here wednesday and ill be more sure what im doing, 10.9 best 1/4 205kph ts in 1800DA till now tho

[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by AleksanderSuave

Interesting. Curious if at stock gap the 2 are identical or if theres any difference.

The gap in the Champions out of my car was the same as the NGK as they came out of the box, about 0.03"

Data here https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...23&postcount=7

[2013mingrey335i]

Hey everyone I just did this log hopefully it has the right information in it for you guys to check it out
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f1f...90c6642d49dcff

[F80Moe]

Hi there

Been a long viewer of this thread and sadly none similar in the supra forums.. Had an F80 M3 and recently got a 2020 Supra

ECUTEK 91 octane tune
Pure800 turbo
CSF Heat exchanger
AA catted DP
Akrapovic exhaust
MST intake
Forge chargepipe
AEM methanol - 250CC just for cooling

45C weather - 40% humidity (Hot as hell)

Can someone let me know what they think of these logs? Tuner says our gas is awful

https://datazap.me/u/a90moe/4th-pull...?log=0&data=10

[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by F80Moe

Hi there

Been a long viewer of this thread and sadly none similar in the supra forums.. Had an F80 M3 and recently got a 2020 Supra

ECUTEK 91 octane tune
Pure800 turbo
CSF Heat exchanger
AA catted DP
Akrapovic exhaust
MST intake
Forge chargepipe
AEM methanol - 250CC just for cooling

45C weather - 40% humidity (Hot as hell)

Can someone let me know what they think of these logs? Tuner says our gas is awful

https://datazap.me/u/a90moe/4th-pull...?log=0&data=10

Very hot conditions.

Agree with your tuner, octane of fuel is very low and ignition timing advance is poor, negative until 5000RPM and only 3.5 degrees by 6000RPM. Your exhaust gas temperature would be very high.

No access to ethanol and/or higher octane fuel? If not and you plan to continue to run that boost level you should increase your meth injection.

[IMS-340C]

Strange from what I know fuel in Kuwait and UAE is good.

I think it's most likely the heat I have the same problem whenever it reaches 40C here my timing totally mess up even on stock MPPSK tune.

Also you are running very high boost around 26 psi up to 5800 RPM which is definitely not helping with the heat.

Which Supra did you get ? the newest 10.2 compression ratio ?

I think you should ask your tuner to lower the boost and as OzBMR said if you have access to ethanol definitely go for it.

Originally Posted by F80Moe

Hi there

Been a long viewer of this thread and sadly none similar in the supra forums.. Had an F80 M3 and recently got a 2020 Supra

ECUTEK 91 octane tune
Pure800 turbo
CSF Heat exchanger
AA catted DP
Akrapovic exhaust
MST intake
Forge chargepipe
AEM methanol - 250CC just for cooling

45C weather - 40% humidity (Hot as hell)

Can someone let me know what they think of these logs? Tuner says our gas is awful

https://datazap.me/u/a90moe/4th-pull...?log=0&data=10

[F80Moe]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

Very hot conditions.

Agree with your tuner, octane of fuel is very low and ignition timing advance is poor, negative until 5000RPM and only 3.5 degrees by 6000RPM. Your exhaust gas temperature would be very high.

No access to ethanol and/or higher octane fuel? If not and you plan to continue to run that boost level you should increase your meth injection.

Will add 2-3 galls of MS103 and see what happens today during dyno

Sadly no ethanol through pumps here..

Looking at the logs here my timing does still look pretty bad.. I had higher expectations with pump gas that faded away (atleast 500whp)

[F80Moe]

Originally Posted by IMS-340MP

Strange from what I know fuel in Kuwait and UAE is good.

I think it's most likely the heat I have the same problem whenever it reaches 40C here my timing totally mess up even on stock MPPSK tune.

Also you are running very high boost around 26 psi up to 5800 RPM which is definitely not helping with the heat.

Which Supra did you get ? the newest 10.2 compression ratio ?

I think you should ask your tuner to lower the boost and as OzBMR said if you have access to ethanol definitely go for it.

No fuel apparently is very bad

2020 Supra with 11.0:1 compression ratio.. Yes boost midrange is high 25psi and then falls down to about 20psi @ redline

Better to lower and bring up more timing?

[IMS-340C]

I asked my tuner for an extra tune for extreme hot weather with less boost and less timing and it's working very well.

And when extreme heat is over I switch back to the normal tune, perhaps you should consider this option.

Originally Posted by F80Moe

No fuel apparently is very bad

2020 Supra with 11.0:1 compression ratio.. Yes boost midrange is high 25psi and then falls down to about 20psi @ redline

Better to lower and bring up more timing?

[F80Moe]

Originally Posted by IMS-340MP

I asked my tuner for an extra tune for extreme hot weather with less boost and less timing and it's working very well.

And when extreme heat is over I switch back to the normal tune, perhaps you should consider this option.

Believe it or not but this is supposed to be the summer map

Its now on revision 10 and improved a lot.. Tuner (Jeff Payn) has been really supportive and is always wanting to improve

Just asked him to lower midrange to 20psi and hold till redline perhaps compensate with more timing

Will see how it goes

[IMS-340C]

45C summer map with 26 psi of boost

Good luck mate and let us know how it went.

Originally Posted by F80Moe

Believe it or not but this is supposed to be the summer map

Its now on revision 10 and improved a lot.. Tuner (Jeff Payn) has been really supportive and is always wanting to improve

Just asked him to lower midrange to 20psi and hold till redline perhaps compensate with more timing

Will see how it goes

[alyabiev]

Originally Posted by F80Moe

Believe it or not but this is supposed to be the summer map

Its now on revision 10 and improved a lot.. Tuner (Jeff Payn) has been really supportive and is always wanting to improve

Just asked him to lower midrange to 20psi and hold till redline perhaps compensate with more timing

Will see how it goes

Just increase Ignition Timing Retard factor for high IATs and reduce Target Load Limit, that's it. Tuner does not set target psi, ECU is torque/load based.

[F80Moe]

Originally Posted by alyabiev

Just increase Ignition Timing Retard factor for high IATs and reduce Target Load Limit, that's it. Tuner does not set target psi, ECU is torque/load based.

Yeah I meant whatever wizadary is involved to set 20psi boost

[Uni-Rapide]

First of all I would like to thank kern417 for staring this thread, very interesting and it has been a steep learning curve!

I was interested in finding out the difference between RON102 and RON98 fuel. A couple of weeks ago I went to Germany and got some Aral 102 and when my tank was almost empty I did a log. Last week when my Shell V-Power 98 was almost empty I did logs, you can find all three here: https://datazap.me/u/remko3dl/ron102...og=0&data=3-19
All three runs were done on the same stretch of road in the same direction.

What really surprised me was the higher boost with the RON98 fuel! As I'm new with this I guess that it might have to do with the higher IAT's and charge air temps during the RON98 runs? What do you think?

I used Virtual Dyno as well to see the differences. (thanks to OzBMR for showing in this thread how to use it!)
In the first screenshot you can see there is not a lot of difference between RON102 and RON98, although 102 is much smoother. I expected RON102 to be clearly stronger than RON98 but the difference is not that big. Maybe it's because I'm still on the stock tune and it doesn't take much advantage of the higher octane?
The second screenshot shows my second RON98 run which I started at a higher rpm and according to Virtual Dyno I now made more power and torque on RON98?

[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by Uni-Rapide

First of all I would like to thank kern417 for staring this thread, very interesting and it has been a steep learning curve!

I was interested in finding out the difference between RON102 and RON98 fuel. A couple of weeks ago I went to Germany and got some Aral 102 and when my tank was almost empty I did a log. Last week when my Shell V-Power 98 was almost empty I did logs, you can find all three here: https://datazap.me/u/remko3dl/ron102...og=0&data=3-19
All three runs were done on the same stretch of road in the same direction.

What really surprised me was the higher boost with the RON98 fuel! As I'm new with this I guess that it might have to do with the higher IAT's and charge air temps during the RON98 runs? What do you think?

I used Virtual Dyno as well to see the differences. (thanks to OzBMR for showing in this thread how to use it!)
In the first screenshot you can see there is not a lot of difference between RON102 and RON98, although 102 is much smoother. I expected RON102 to be clearly stronger than RON98 but the difference is not that big. Maybe it's because I'm still on the stock tune and it doesn't take much advantage of the higher octane?
The second screenshot shows my second RON98 run which I started at a higher rpm and according to Virtual Dyno I now made more power and torque on RON98?

Interesting comparison, thanks for sharing.

Load Required and actual torque is the same for all runs as it is the same stock tune. Variations in boost level are due to IAT and ambient pressure differences only as you mentioned.

Timing is better/cleaner across all cylinders with 102RON fuel even at the stock tune levels.

With stage1 or stage 2 tunes the fuel will be even more important.

Your test highlights that even at stock levels 98RON_93 octane fuel is really barely acceptable and that for higher torque/load/boost you need to have higher octane fuel.

[Uni-Rapide]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

Interesting comparison, thanks for sharing.

Load Required and actual torque is the same for all runs as it is the same stock tune. Variations in boost level are due to IAT and ambient pressure differences only as you mentioned.

Timing is better/cleaner across all cylinders with 102RON fuel even at the stock tune levels.

With stage1 or stage 2 tunes the fuel will be even more important.

Your test highlights that even at stock levels 98RON_93 octane fuel is really barely acceptable and that for higher torque/load/boost you need to have higher octane fuel.

Thanks for the feedback.
What about the throttle closures? I assume that's due to boost being over target? Is that something that can be solved by a (custom) tune?

The fact that my second 98RON run showed higher power and torque is that within the tolerances of the measurement or is there another explanation?