F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > B58 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > B58 Turbo Options
ARMA SPEED
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-18-2020, 12:48 PM   #1
kern417
Cheapskate
United_States
3251
Rep
4,296
Posts

Drives: 2018 440i / 2010 X5
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cincinnati

iTrader: (1)

B58 Turbo Options

In this video, I talk about the turbo options that are available for the B58. I talked about the pros/cons of each kit, and what power you can expect depending on fuel support. Hope this helps

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Instagram @kern417
Appreciate 7
      11-18-2020, 06:25 PM   #2
SC_B5X
Second Lieutenant
SC_B5X's Avatar
United_States
339
Rep
261
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW 340i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Greenville, SC

iTrader: (0)

Already knew everything, but always like watching your videos. Straight to the point and easy to understand especially for newcomers to the platform. They ought to sticky your videos in B58 Enthusiasts for people so we stop getting the same questions over and over.
__________________
Instagram: SC_B5X
2016 BMW 340i M-Sport Pkg
Pure 800 Turbo, Dorch Engineering Stage 2 HPFP, VRSF 4.5" Downpipe, Remus Axleback, CTS Turbo Intake, 8HP70 Transmission Swap w/ XHP Stage 3 Trans Tune, and Custom E50 Wedge MHD Tune
Appreciate 2
kern4173251.00
Supr3me471.50

      11-18-2020, 06:26 PM   #3
cfm56d7b
Major General
United_States
2652
Rep
6,362
Posts

Drives: 2017 440i Gran Coupe & 2015 X5
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (2)

Very informative. Could not agree more - ought to be sticky (on both sides).
Appreciate 3
SC_B5X338.50
kern4173251.00
Supr3me471.50

      11-19-2020, 06:24 AM   #4
IMS-340MP
Lieutenant
IMS-340MP's Avatar
Egypt
147
Rep
458
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i MPPSK
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Cairo

iTrader: (0)

Again thanks mate for the the video and valuable information.

You are always a credible source of information but to be honest a bit skeptical about Twisted tuning and Pure Turbos gains of the bigger turbo + TU pump running on 93 only.

From your videos stock turbo makes 400-420 WHP and by installing a bigger turbo and TU pump running on 93 only produce around 550 WHP.

That's at least a full 130 WHP gain!! I think we need to have more evidence and facts about this like a real before and after dyno run done by an independent owner.

Or are you 100% sure those claims are correct before I pull the trigger and buy the Pure 800 + TU pump ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
In this video, I talk about the turbo options that are available for the B58. I talked about the pros/cons of each kit, and what power you can expect depending on fuel support. Hope this helps :thumbsup
__________________
2018 340i LCI - MPPSK Catless AT RWD - M Sport - Shadow Edition
MPPSK - Self Tune - Pure Boost Custom Tune - MHD Stage 1 - MHD Stage 2
Fuel: 92 RON - 88 OCT

Last edited by IMS-340MP; 11-19-2020 at 07:26 AM..
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2020, 07:41 AM   #5
TheFanatic
Private First Class
TheFanatic's Avatar
United_States
52
Rep
157
Posts

Drives: BMW 340i
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMS-340MP View Post
Again thanks mate for the the video and valuable information.

You are always a credible source of information but to be honest a bit skeptical about Twisted tuning and Pure Turbos gains of the bigger turbo + TU pump running on 93 only.

From your videos stock turbo makes 400-420 WHP and by installing a bigger turbo and TU pump running on 93 only produce around 550 WHP.

That's at least a full 130 WHP gain!! I think we need to have more evidence and facts about this like a real before and after dyno run done by an independent owner.

Or are you 100% sure those claims are correct before I pull the trigger and buy the Pure 800 + TU pump ?
The gains seen from that are also in conjunction with a tune, the OTS maps from Bootmod3 and MHD are conservative to allow for safety between a wide variety people. None of them have options for a larger turbo, so a proper tune is needed, that's where the jump in HP comes in. Same fuel system, same fuel, same boost, much better tune and better efficiency
Appreciate 2
kern4173251.00
IMS-340MP146.50

      11-19-2020, 08:37 AM   #6
TheFanatic
Private First Class
TheFanatic's Avatar
United_States
52
Rep
157
Posts

Drives: BMW 340i
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

My understanding of the hybrid kits is they use the stock exhaust housing that has been machined out. The GC+ kit casts their own manifold and housing nothing is stock. Granted it's not a big turbo but wouldn't that make it not a hybrid but its own kit? Pure 800 still uses the factory housing that they modified. Which is why they still charge a core where Vargas GC+ does not.
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2020, 08:48 AM   #7
mike@x-ph.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
mike@x-ph.com's Avatar
United_States
13146
Rep
141,621
Posts


Drives: 2007 e92 335i / 2013 F30 328
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (20)

Thank you for sharing
__________________
Appreciate 1
kern4173251.00

      11-19-2020, 09:54 AM   #8
IMS-340MP
Lieutenant
IMS-340MP's Avatar
Egypt
147
Rep
458
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i MPPSK
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Cairo

iTrader: (0)

Thanks mate yeah I know a custom tune is needed, problem is when I emailed MHD tuner and Jordan Tuned they both confirmed I will not see a reasonable gains without Ethanol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFanatic View Post
The gains seen from that are also in conjunction with a tune, the OTS maps from Bootmod3 and MHD are conservative to allow for safety between a wide variety people. None of them have options for a larger turbo, so a proper tune is needed, that's where the jump in HP comes in. Same fuel system, same fuel, same boost, much better tune and better efficiency
__________________
2018 340i LCI - MPPSK Catless AT RWD - M Sport - Shadow Edition
MPPSK - Self Tune - Pure Boost Custom Tune - MHD Stage 1 - MHD Stage 2
Fuel: 92 RON - 88 OCT
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2020, 10:15 AM   #9
TheFanatic
Private First Class
TheFanatic's Avatar
United_States
52
Rep
157
Posts

Drives: BMW 340i
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMS-340MP View Post
Thanks mate yeah I know a custom tune is needed, problem is when I emailed MHD tuner and Jordan Tuned they both confirmed I will not see a reasonable gains without Ethanol.
Stock turbo can push over 500whp in some applications so you might be going off of his low end numbers for one and high end for another, that could also account for the big jump, Stock can easily handle over 440hp with upgraded HPFP so the jump isn't as large on average. 60hp or so with better turbo and tune. 480 to 540 type thing. Ethanol is where the big jump comes in though. That is what usually is needed to push our cars over the 600 mark (or meth)
Appreciate 1
kern4173251.00

      11-19-2020, 01:28 PM   #10
kern417
Cheapskate
United_States
3251
Rep
4,296
Posts

Drives: 2018 440i / 2010 X5
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cincinnati

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMS-340MP View Post
Again thanks mate for the the video and valuable information.

You are always a credible source of information but to be honest a bit skeptical about Twisted tuning and Pure Turbos gains of the bigger turbo + TU pump running on 93 only.

From your videos stock turbo makes 400-420 WHP and by installing a bigger turbo and TU pump running on 93 only produce around 550 WHP.

That's at least a full 130 WHP gain!! I think we need to have more evidence and facts about this like a real before and after dyno run done by an independent owner.

Or are you 100% sure those claims are correct before I pull the trigger and buy the Pure 800 + TU pump ?
My fueling video will post tomorrow and explains everything. It all depends on what the tuner deems safe, but yes it is 100% possible once you undestand how the hpfp works. And for reference, Twisted Tuning is a tuner. They don't make the kit that is on their shop car, it's a Doc Race kit. So they really don't have anything to prove with their numbers. They just did some testing before adding port injection and turning it up to 750+. That turbo is capable of upwards of 1000hp, so it's not even breaking a sweat at 550.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFanatic View Post
My understanding of the hybrid kits is they use the stock exhaust housing that has been machined out. The GC+ kit casts their own manifold and housing nothing is stock. Granted it's not a big turbo but wouldn't that make it not a hybrid but its own kit? Pure 800 still uses the factory housing that they modified. Which is why they still charge a core where Vargas GC+ does not.
The main distinction for me is fitting in the stock frame. They cast their own turbofold, but that's no different in the actual sizing. They are limited to making sure if fits the stock intake/downpipe/charge pipe. So I put that in the same category as a hybrid due how it's designed, even if the end product isn't using stock components.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Instagram @kern417
Appreciate 2
      11-19-2020, 06:59 PM   #11
Sleeper340i
Private First Class
47
Rep
160
Posts

Drives: BMW 340i
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMS-340MP View Post
Thanks mate yeah I know a custom tune is needed, problem is when I emailed MHD tuner and Jordan Tuned they both confirmed I will not see a reasonable gains without Ethanol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFanatic View Post
The gains seen from that are also in conjunction with a tune, the OTS maps from Bootmod3 and MHD are conservative to allow for safety between a wide variety people. None of them have options for a larger turbo, so a proper tune is needed, that's where the jump in HP comes in. Same fuel system, same fuel, same boost, much better tune and better efficiency
From my personal experience I dyno'd about 380 wheel on MHD stage 2 91 on stock turbo.

I had high hopes of reaching 500+ wheel on Pure 800 92 octane, but with a custom tune I ended up getting about 440-450 wheel (not officially dyno'd) just guesstimates by races and other people's inputs. Also there was a video online of someone who dynod their 93 octane Pure 800 custom tune and he only got about 470ish which makes sense for a 1 octane jump. These are the numbers I would expect from my experience, hope that helps.
Appreciate 1
IMS-340MP146.50

      11-19-2020, 09:35 PM   #12
Glemm1970
Private First Class
Glemm1970's Avatar
Russia
148
Rep
153
Posts

Drives: BMW M140IX.
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Vladivostok

iTrader: (0)

GC 100Ron = 520whp
GC 100Ron + WMI = 580whp
GC 100Ron+50%109Ron +30%E85 + WMI = 626whp.
From which it can be seen that fuel is the limiting factor in power on the B58. Hybrid turbines GC, Pure800, GC + are effective only at octane above 102/105 and above 600whp, additional injection of WMI, PI, etc. is needed.
__________________
M140IX. Turbo VTT GС,Flash Wedge Steven.
xHP stage 3. CSF. Dorch 2. 100ron+30%E85,+WMI. 1620kg. 1/4ml 10.50s. 100/200 5.91s +8C.
Appreciate 1
IMS-340MP146.50

      11-20-2020, 04:01 AM   #13
IMS-340MP
Lieutenant
IMS-340MP's Avatar
Egypt
147
Rep
458
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i MPPSK
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Cairo

iTrader: (0)

Not sure why you assumed I don't know how HPFP works Anyway looking forward to watching your fueling video, Cheers mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
My fueling video will post tomorrow and explains everything. It all depends on what the tuner deems safe, but yes it is 100% possible once you undestand how the hpfp works.
__________________
2018 340i LCI - MPPSK Catless AT RWD - M Sport - Shadow Edition
MPPSK - Self Tune - Pure Boost Custom Tune - MHD Stage 1 - MHD Stage 2
Fuel: 92 RON - 88 OCT
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2020, 01:58 PM   #14
kern417
Cheapskate
United_States
3251
Rep
4,296
Posts

Drives: 2018 440i / 2010 X5
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cincinnati

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMS-340MP View Post
Not sure why you assumed I don't know how HPFP works Anyway looking forward to watching your fueling video, Cheers mate.
Not you specifically, just saying in general. Like you referenced JordanTuned, and he's one of the tuners that still recommends people put the wrong spark plugs in their B58. It's just a lack of awareness, especially when people are posting their results for everyone to see. Hard to argue with the numbers.

Here's another example. Vargas put their car on a dyno, just swapping turbos on an OTS map. Look at the results.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1671520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech View Post
Hey guys! A little sneak peek of our B58 GC testing which is underway currently. 2018 340i Tester car came in with a Mission Performance Stage 2 tune with ACN91OCT in the tank. We did 5 baseline pulls before we removed the stock turbo. The best run was 395WHP, the worst run was 377WHP. The average of all 5 runs was 383WHP. Making ZERO changes to the car except removing the stock turbo installing the GC along with its silicone intake elbow, we put it back on the back on the dyno.

The results were nothing short of amazing. With no tuning changes the car retained near stock spool, made 44WHP at peak, but the HUGE take away was power held to redline! Taking the best run of 395, and overlaying the new run with the GC, you can see that we picked a full 100WHP at redline! This was backed up by a second pull.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Instagram @kern417
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2020, 04:36 PM   #15
dmanb2b
Captain
dmanb2b's Avatar
222
Rep
976
Posts

Drives: F30, E90, E46, E30
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NY

iTrader: (1)

I am surprised to see so many folks are focusing on whp vs. % gain from stock. I get it because it's nice to be able to throw out a #, but unless everyone is using the same dyno to measure whp, it is sort of a moot point. Example: 450whp on a mustang or dyno dynamics may read 520whp on a dynojet. That's all nice, but you need to know where you started in stock form, on the same dyno.
Appreciate 1
Wires654.00

      11-20-2020, 09:45 PM   #16
kern417
Cheapskate
United_States
3251
Rep
4,296
Posts

Drives: 2018 440i / 2010 X5
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cincinnati

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanb2b View Post
I am surprised to see so many folks are focusing on whp vs. % gain from stock. I get it because it's nice to be able to throw out a #, but unless everyone is using the same dyno to measure whp, it is sort of a moot point. Example: 450whp on a mustang or dyno dynamics may read 520whp on a dynojet. That's all nice, but you need to know where you started in stock form, on the same dyno.
It's a common language. When looking at how a car performs you typically look at peak hp. How the power is delivered and relative to stock is moot in conversation. I also mention dynojet figures in my videos to keep it level.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Instagram @kern417
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2020, 09:16 AM   #17
IMS-340MP
Lieutenant
IMS-340MP's Avatar
Egypt
147
Rep
458
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i MPPSK
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Cairo

iTrader: (0)

As far as I know Jordan Tuned are one of the best names in tuning even in the link you provided below VTTO chose them for making their custom tune so there must be something behind their plug recommendation to customers.

Also in this link the VTTO bigger Turbo achieved around 440 whp on OTS tunes not sure a custom tune will add another 110 whp on 93 only.

I always check extensively from different sources before I consider anything a FACT and I heard different results when using a bigger Turbo with 93 octane actually one of them in this thread:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...6&postcount=11

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Not you specifically, just saying in general. Like you referenced JordanTuned, and he's one of the tuners that still recommends people put the wrong spark plugs in their B58. It's just a lack of awareness, especially when people are posting their results for everyone to see. Hard to argue with the numbers.

Here's another example. Vargas put their car on a dyno, just swapping turbos on an OTS map. Look at the results.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1671520
__________________
2018 340i LCI - MPPSK Catless AT RWD - M Sport - Shadow Edition
MPPSK - Self Tune - Pure Boost Custom Tune - MHD Stage 1 - MHD Stage 2
Fuel: 92 RON - 88 OCT
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2020, 11:35 AM   #18
Supr3me
Captain
Supr3me's Avatar
United_States
472
Rep
655
Posts

Drives: Your mom crazy
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sioux Falls SD

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I'll add your video link to the turbo upgrade thread too
__________________
2016 340i xDrive M-Sport MPPSK
Pure800; Dorch Stg2 hpfp; VRSF DP; AP intake
MHD; Wedge Performance E50 tune; xHP Stage 3
Forgestar wheels & KW coilovers
10.45 1/4; 2.75 0-60mph
Appreciate 1
kern4173251.00

      11-22-2020, 07:04 AM   #19
kern417
Cheapskate
United_States
3251
Rep
4,296
Posts

Drives: 2018 440i / 2010 X5
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cincinnati

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMS-340MP View Post
As far as I know Jordan Tuned are one of the best names in tuning even in the link you provided below VTTO chose them for making their custom tune so there must be something behind their plug recommendation to customers.

Also in this link the VTTO bigger Turbo achieved around 440 whp on OTS tunes not sure a custom tune will add another 110 whp on 93 only.

I always check extensively from different sources before I consider anything a FACT and I heard different results when using a bigger Turbo with 93 octane actually one of them in this thread:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...6&postcount=11
Cary recommends 97506 plugs. You and I both know that's incorrect. Nothing else matters. That indicates he's not well versed in the b58 platform. There's also a reason you don't hear about him on the b58 platform.

And read that thread again. It's a pure800, and it hit 470whp on a conservative tune. You can be skeptical all you want, but the numbers have been proven over and over.

Watch my video on fuel upgrades and see if it doesn't make more sense. it's all about where the turbo makes power.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Instagram @kern417
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2020, 09:56 AM   #20
IMS-340MP
Lieutenant
IMS-340MP's Avatar
Egypt
147
Rep
458
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i MPPSK
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Cairo

iTrader: (0)

Chill mate we and remember we are doing all those discussions for the sake and to help our B58 community.

Most of us worked hard to be able to buy these cars and we deserve to have the best products as advertised.

You know companies sometimes make inaccurate claims about their products, remember when you were not happy when you found your CSF heat exchanger results not exactly like the chart they advertised ?

I was told by multiple sources that a bigger Turbo on 93 does not make huge gains so I thought it's my responsibility to share it on the forum, same like your experience with Cary Jordan I'll definitely keep that in mind.

Cheers mate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Cary recommends 97506 plugs. You and I both know that's incorrect. Nothing else matters. That indicates he's not well versed in the b58 platform. There's also a reason you don't hear about him on the b58 platform.

And read that thread again. It's a pure800, and it hit 470whp on a conservative tune. You can be skeptical all you want, but the numbers have been proven over and over.

Watch my video on fuel upgrades and see if it doesn't make more sense. it's all about where the turbo makes power.
__________________
2018 340i LCI - MPPSK Catless AT RWD - M Sport - Shadow Edition
MPPSK - Self Tune - Pure Boost Custom Tune - MHD Stage 1 - MHD Stage 2
Fuel: 92 RON - 88 OCT

Last edited by IMS-340MP; 11-22-2020 at 10:01 AM..
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2020, 08:31 PM   #21
dmanb2b
Captain
dmanb2b's Avatar
222
Rep
976
Posts

Drives: F30, E90, E46, E30
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NY

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
It's a common language. When looking at how a car performs you typically look at peak hp. How the power is delivered and relative to stock is moot in conversation. I also mention dynojet figures in my videos to keep it level.
Yeah...I wasn't commenting on your video and appreciate the fact you mention the dyno jet to clarify. I agree it's common language yes, but we both know a 500hp car on a dynojet will likely hit maybe 450 on a dyno dynamics or mustang, hence peak HP is not measured in a common manner. My point is someone above said they were disappointed with 450whp...unless we are all using the same machine, on the same day, it's just a number. 1/4mi times would be better, but the b58 is in too many cars to compare apples to apples.
Appreciate 0
      11-23-2020, 09:01 AM   #22
kern417
Cheapskate
United_States
3251
Rep
4,296
Posts

Drives: 2018 440i / 2010 X5
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cincinnati

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMS-340MP View Post
Chill mate we and remember we are doing all those discussions for the sake and to help our B58 community.

Most of us worked hard to be able to buy these cars and we deserve to have the best products as advertised.

You know companies sometimes make inaccurate claims about their products, remember when you were not happy when you found your CSF heat exchanger results not exactly like the chart they advertised ?

I was told by multiple sources that a bigger Turbo on 93 does not make huge gains so I thought it's my responsibility to share it on the forum, same like your experience with Cary Jordan I'll definitely keep that in mind.

Cheers mate.
none intended, just maybe being taken as agressive through online messaging

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanb2b View Post
Yeah...I wasn't commenting on your video and appreciate the fact you mention the dyno jet to clarify. I agree it's common language yes, but we both know a 500hp car on a dynojet will likely hit maybe 450 on a dyno dynamics or mustang, hence peak HP is not measured in a common manner. My point is someone above said they were disappointed with 450whp...unless we are all using the same machine, on the same day, it's just a number. 1/4mi times would be better, but the b58 is in too many cars to compare apples to apples.
absolutely. even times vary depending on weight, traction, weather, etc. it's fun chasing numbers but you have to be aware of your own circumstances too
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Instagram @kern417
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:14 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST