[JR1664]

Hopefully this won't infringe on forum politics guidelines.

Decent pay rise imho...press and Unions claim otherwise.

[flashollie]

Yes it is when compared to other sectors.
What it fails to do is address the bigger issues of recruitment and retention. Too many NHS services are woefully understaffed. In my anecdotal experience of talking to NHS staff through my job (not NHS) what most staff want is investment to increase and stabilise the staffing levels.

[isleaiw1]

Another of those where the press and headlines will tell nowhere near the true story.

Its 3% but you might not get it if you are at the top of your grade band - apparently increasing band upper limit in line with the pay review is too obvious so doesnt happen. And then some nurses will get 3% but some will move up in band as well due to experience etc and get much more....

And of course the average nurse gets more than the average copper (I hate stats like that as there are so many reasons why they are not comparable but its a headline)....

And they get a fab pension - sure they could have a bigger pay rise if they moved their pension to the same as most of the private sector get...

They do a fab job and we need to look after them, but I suspect they are not that bothered about pay and that is a substitute for other grievances....

Now, how much for the coppers. We need them just as much, if not more....

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Another of those where the press and headlines will tell nowhere near the true story.

Its 3% but you might not get it if you are at the top of your grade band - apparently increasing band upper limit in line with the pay review is too obvious so doesnt happen. And then some nurses will get 3% but some will move up in band as well due to experience etc and get much more....

And of course the average nurse gets more than the average copper (I hate stats like that as there are so many reasons why they are not comparable but its a headline)....

And they get a fab pension - sure they could have a bigger pay rise if they moved their pension to the same as most of the private sector get...

They do a fab job and we need to look after them, but I suspect they are not that bothered about pay and that is a substitute for other grievances....

Now, how much for the coppers. We need them just as much, if not more....

0% for coppers until 2022 which means September 2022 as that's when we get our pay rises. If we get one..

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

0% for coppers until 2022 which means September 2022 as that's when we get our pay rises. If we get one..

Madness. Although its 0% for me apparently until Jan 2023..... or longer....and thats proper 0%, none of this increase in band stuff.....

[Wills2]

0% for me for the last ten years.....

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Madness. Although its 0% for me apparently until Jan 2023..... or longer....and thats proper 0%, none of this increase in band stuff.....

I'm at the top of the PC pay bands and have been for a good few years now. So when we don't get a pay rise, I literally don't get one.

[AndyCKent]

I think its an acceptable payrise considering the situation the Government bank balance is in, although they have squandered billions on T&T and all manner of other things in the past 18 months so you can see why the Unions have the hump about it all.

I worked in the Public sector for 7 years at the start of my career and whilst I have no regrets, I couldn't work there now as they simply don't pay enough money compared to comparable jobs in the private sector.

Its the age old issue whereby the Public sector doesn't generate its own income per se, its tax payer funded so giving payrises and bonuses is always a little awkward considering how many public sector departments there are, the costs could spiral. In our company, if there is profit each year we get payrises and bonuses.....if there isn't, we don't.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by AndyCKent

I think its an acceptable payrise considering the situation the Government bank balance is in, although they have squandered billions on T&T and all manner of other things in the past 18 months so you can see why the Unions have the hump about it all.

I worked in the Public sector for 7 years at the start of my career and whilst I have no regrets, I couldn't work there now as they simply don't pay enough money compared to comparable jobs in the private sector.

Its the age old issue whereby the Public sector doesn't generate its own income per se, its tax payer funded so giving payrises and bonuses is always a little awkward considering how many public sector departments there are, the costs could spiral. In our company, if there is profit each year we get payrises and bonuses.....if there isn't, we don't.

whereas I know lower level staff going to the public sector (admin sorts of roles) as salaries as good and pension much better - whilst the hassle and work life balance are a world away.

The biggest issue with the public sector is the cost of providing the pension - it costs the employer 2 to 3 times what a private sector pension costs (and is twice as good come retirement). If they moved that to something more akin to the private sector they could have pay rises more like the private sector but they want both.

Need to join the railways then

[Tengocity]

It certainly isn't going to be enough when inflations runs a lot hotter for the next few years.
Then add in the overall shortage of people to fill the jobs, for numerous reasons, and I think we are heading in to turbulent times for recruitment, pay, unions etc.

I'm in Pharma, and it's always been a well paid industry, but we still struggle to fill positions with thr right talent, and it seems to be an increasing issue across our industry and others.

Anyone else finding that?

On the other hand, it's that which has given us the confidence to move to Scotland, knowing that companies will have to flex to attract and retain talent.

We employ nurses, and I've never known as many current NHS nurses to approach us and ask if we have any positions. It's very anectdotal, but if it's in anyway reflective of a wider trend then the NHS vacancy issue is only going to get worse.

[AndyCKent]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

whereas I know lower level staff going to the public sector (admin sorts of roles) as salaries as good and pension much better - whilst the hassle and work life balance are a world away.

The biggest issue with the public sector is the cost of providing the pension - it costs the employer 2 to 3 times what a private sector pension costs (and is twice as good come retirement). If they moved that to something more akin to the private sector they could have pay rises more like the private sector but they want both.

Need to join the railways then

Fair play, perhaps things have changed a little but I work in IT and although the starting salaries are ok, once you reach Senior Engineer type roles it can't even come close. Salaries were done in bands and even the top band for my role was half what I am getting paid now.

Financial services is the place to be if you want payrises and bonuses but the caveat to that is that your job is not always 100% secure.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by Wills2

0% for me for the last ten years.....

Nothing stopping you from applying for a job in the NHS if you find the financial packages attractive, there are vacancies in pretty much every area, from porters to CEOs.....

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Nothing stopping you from applying for a job in the NHS if you find the financial packages attractive, there are vacancies in pretty much every area, from porters to CEOs.....

probably a few for doctors, who are packing up early as they are hitting pension caps due to the overtime they get paid...

Now when did I last get overtime? or a defined benefit salary?

And I certainly wont be retiring that early..... even though I have a well paid job in the private sector!

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

We employ nurses, and I've never known as many current NHS nurses to approach us and ask if we have any positions.

Apparently I can earn easily double current pay in the private sector based on my clinical experience and skills, but I have zero interest in any of that. Most NHS staff I suspect feel the same, most aren't motivated by pay so for the government to kick up such a fuss about what really is a tiny change in pay is pretty short sighted.

The lack of staff recruitment/retainment is mainly down to lack for clear leadership and management. The amount of staff disengagement between the front line and management is at a level where if the NHS was any private organization it will have 100% failed by now.

The fact is the job it self is incredibly rewarding, I had someone walk up to me in clinic this week thanking me for 'saving their life' 10 years ago. It took me a while to remember the exact incident, not because it wasn't memorable but because for all NHS staff it really is just our job.

Am not sure what other job you can do where you get that level of personal satisfaction on a nearly daily basis. Yet through lack of clear leadership - Just look at how often the health secretary changes, more staff than ever cannot wait to leave. Pay is just the final straw, if central leadership actually found a way to motivate and engage staff, the pay issue would be very easily sorted.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Apparently I can earn easily double current pay in the private sector based on my clinical experience and skills, but I have zero interest in any of that. Most NHS staff I suspect feel the same, most aren't motivated by pay so for the government to kick up such a fuss about what really is a tiny change in pay is pretty short sighted.

The lack of staff recruitment/retainment is mainly down to lack for clear leadership and management. The amount of staff disengagement between the front line and management is at a level where if the NHS was any private organization it will have 100% failed by now.

The fact is the job it self is incredibly rewarding, I had someone walk up to me in clinic this week thanking me for 'saving their life' 10 years ago. It took me a while to remember the exact incident, not because it wasn't memorable but because for all NHS staff it really is just our job.

Am not sure what other job you can do where you get that level of personal satisfaction on a nearly daily basis. Yet through lack of clear leadership - Just look at how often the health secretary changes, more staff than ever cannot wait to leave. Pay is just the final straw, if central leadership actually found a way to motivate and engage staff, the pay issue would be very easily sorted.

But isnt that the issue, pay isnt really the problem so are the Unions banging on about it. They want investment, better joined up management, so why try and solve a problem with something that wont.....

I'd love to see how NHS Trusts do on Great Place to Work surveys and what the real issues are....

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Now when did I last get overtime? or a defined benefit salary?

I get paid an amazing £8/hr to provide specialist cover for a population of 2 million people, I need to have 24/7 availability with a demand that I can be onsite within 30 minutes if need. If I give the wrong advice/make a mistake am up in front of the corners court to explain things.

It counts as 'overtime', and I have been told I cannot not 'drop' that cover till for probably another 15 years.

Do you want to swap jobs? I'll be more than happy to transfer that responsibility to you if you wanted it

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Apparently I can earn easily double current pay in the private sector based on my clinical experience and skills, but I have zero interest in any of that. Most NHS staff I suspect feel the same, most aren't motivated by pay so for the government to kick up such a fuss about what really is a tiny change in pay is pretty short sighted.

The lack of staff recruitment/retainment is mainly down to lack for clear leadership and management. The amount of staff disengagement between the front line and management is at a level where if the NHS was any private organization it will have 100% failed by now.

The fact is the job it self is incredibly rewarding, I had someone walk up to me in clinic this week thanking me for 'saving their life' 10 years ago. It took me a while to remember the exact incident, not because it wasn't memorable but because for all NHS staff it really is just our job.

Am not sure what other job you can do where you get that level of personal satisfaction on a nearly daily basis. Yet through lack of clear leadership - Just look at how often the health secretary changes, more staff than ever cannot wait to leave. Pay is just the final straw, if central leadership actually found a way to motivate and engage staff, the pay issue would be very easily sorted.

Private patients are still patients, so I don't see why the work would be any less rewarding?

That people have medical work done privately takes a huge load off the NHS too.

Job satisfaction is all well and good, but it doesn't pay for Teslas, mortgages, holidays etc. I'm sorry, I think you're a little naive if you think your colleagues not in consultant positions wouldn't love a proper pay rise.

[AndyCKent]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Private patients are still patients, so I don't see why the work would be any less rewarding?

That people have medical work done privately takes a huge load off the NHS too.

Job satisfaction is all well and good, but it doesn't pay for Teslas, mortgages, holidays etc. I'm sorry, I think you're a little naive if you think your colleagues not in consultant positions wouldn't love a proper pay rise.

Job satisfaction is important but I think there has to be a balance between this and earning something decent if the opportunity is there to earn more.

We get BUPA cover as a benefit in kind and having used it twice, I now consider it a requirement of a role if I ever were to look for another job. Many companies (especially in London) provide private medical care as part of a salary package and considering the backlog of NHS elective surgeries at the moment, I would suggest private healthcare is not the 'bad thing' its made out to be if those who can afford it make use of it to take some burden off the NHS.

Im not advocating private healthcare over the NHS by the way, I am more than happy to fund the NHS and pay privately on top.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

I get paid an amazing £8/hr to provide specialist cover for a population of 2 million people, I need to have 24/7 availability with a demand that I can be onsite within 30 minutes if need. If I give the wrong advice/make a mistake am up in front of the corners court to explain things.

It counts as 'overtime', and I have been told I cannot not 'drop' that cover till for probably another 15 years.

Do you want to swap jobs? I'll be more than happy to transfer that responsibility to you if you wanted it

No thanks, as I dont have the training and didnt choose that route...

I provide 24/7 cover for billions of pounds of property, thousands of guests, over a thousand staff and who knows who is passing.... for which I get a flat salary. Oh and I could go to prison if we dont do it right....

And I still wont be able to retire before 60, or because my pot is too big....

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Job satisfaction is all well and good, but it doesn't pay for Teslas, mortgages, holidays etc. I'm sorry, I think you're a little naive if you think your colleagues not in consultant positions wouldn't love a proper pay rise.

Ofcourse everyone wants a pay rise, but the figures been talked about are a joke interms of making any real impact on anything if you thought pay was the main driver for NHS staff.

I would welcome a 10%+ pay rise for all NHS staff earning below £30K, but can you or anyone else see this government doing that?

I suspect most supermarkets have been staff retention than the NHS, and their pay is scales are considerably lower, pay is one issue, but its not the reason why many staff cannot wait to leave.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

And I still wont be able to retire before 60, or because my pot is too big....

That would be the both of us than. I don't plan on retiring for another 30 years yet .

[Sennen]

I dont use any sector of the NHS now, I even use a private GP and my ENT consultant who I saw last month is currently tooling around in a Gallardo so I dont think there is any shortage of money there.

I would be more than happy to pay another 1% tax if it all went to the lower paid NHS staff but as always it would be a case of 'Smoke and Mirrors' and the majority would probably end up supporting another Generation of lazy sods that cant get out of bed.

After the 'Hell' NHS staff have gone through over the past 18 months we should be looking after them, 1% was a downright insult but I am not sure we are in a position as a country to offer much more than 3% at the moment. Maybe a sliding scale, I am sure Gangzoom who is probably pulling in circa £200k per annum would willingly forego any rise and bolster up the lower paid Nurses and Porters etc.