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      03-24-2018, 06:10 PM   #1
harperium
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Did my rear tires lose grip?

I have Pilot Sport A/S 3+ all seasons, inflated to 35 front / 38 rear. The outdoor temp was 40, the temp of the tires was 45. The ground was dry; no ice.

I was driving around a curve "15 mph only", and took the curve at about 30 mph. At the apex of the curve, it *felt* as if the rear tires slid about 1 or 2 feet. But there was no "screeech" sound.

Is it possible that both rear tires lost grip silently?

Or was what I felt rolling up on the sidewall of the tire?

Or something else?
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      03-24-2018, 06:17 PM   #2
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I think you'd be surprised how silent losing grip can be. I'd bet you hit an ice or wet patch.
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      03-24-2018, 06:20 PM   #3
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there was definitely no ice; i am pretty sure there was no water. I think, if you are correct, that i reached the limit of the all season tires. it's just unnerving that it happened with no sound. no warning.
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      03-24-2018, 07:49 PM   #4
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How old are they? I find older tires make less noise.
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      03-24-2018, 07:56 PM   #5
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You’re not supposed to judge available grip by sound. Should feel the tires losing grip. I would actually expect understeer not oversteer in that scenario.
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      03-24-2018, 09:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harperium View Post
I was driving around a curve "15 mph only"
There's probably a reason for that limit.
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      03-24-2018, 09:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by harperium View Post
I was driving around a curve "15 mph only"
There's probably a reason for that limit.
lowest common denominator
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      03-25-2018, 01:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Youre not supposed to judge available grip by sound. Should feel the tires losing grip. I would actually expect understeer not oversteer in that scenario.
His rears were at a higher pressure than the fronts. He could also have throttle lifted.
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      03-25-2018, 05:25 AM   #9
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So you took the curve at twice the recommended speed? Sounds pretty weird what happened, if you were are the limits of traction then Id expect some tyre noise. Maybe you hit a spot of diesel?
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      03-25-2018, 08:16 AM   #10
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I have the Michelin Pilot AS3+, and drive "spiritedly". Love these tires. I've entered off ramps a bit too quickly a couple times and have had the rear start to slip. Then the electronic nannies took over and saved my ass.

Your issue could be many things, but likely just you going too fast, losing traction for a few seconds and then the car recovering like it's supposed to.

Probably compounded by the cold temp, which makes the tires less sticky, so less likely to make noise.
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      03-25-2018, 11:44 AM   #11
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Cold ground, Cold tires, too much speed, lifting throttle in the turn.

All of the above.

Good reasons not to shut down all the nannies.
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      03-25-2018, 04:42 PM   #12
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Went out for an experiment today - found a large mostly empty parking lot (50 miles away!). Drove at 25 mph and then took some hard 90 degree turns - no throttle, no brakes. The rear tires did in fact squeal a bit, and there was negligible sliding, with the DSC light flashing. But the car was very well composed - I must say, the 340 is quite tossable and the the A/S 3+ tires had a surprising amount of grip.

Sport vs Sport Plus made no difference. But I was only making 90 degree turns.

So what I think happened yesterday was that the "15 mph only" curve had really worn pavement with poor friction - ground didn't seem wet, but who knows... So at the apex of the curve I must have lost grip in the rear slightly, but without enough friction the rubber didn't squeal.

Next month autocross starts and summer tires can go back on...
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      03-25-2018, 05:04 PM   #13
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You won't have the best traction when the temperatures in the cold. My tires really don't squeal much when slideways.
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      03-25-2018, 07:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
His rears were at a higher pressure than the fronts. He could also have throttle lifted.
The near 50/50 weight ratio should be more square with pressure. The factory recommendation is 32 PSI front and rear, if you are 38 rear and you are 20% over-inflated. You were at the limit and the rears slid it seems to me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Cold ground, Cold tires, too much speed, lifting throttle in the turn.

All of the above.

Good reasons not to shut down all the nannies.
Good point!
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      03-26-2018, 09:15 PM   #15
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Probably something in the road you didn't or couldn't see. If it's a tight turn I bet shit is landing there all the time from dump trucks or landscape crews. Heck there could of be an accident there the other day and oil/coolant got all over the ground.
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      03-26-2018, 09:40 PM   #16
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I rarely hear noise when I hit the limit but it might be drown out by my exhaust.
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      03-26-2018, 11:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpgray View Post
The near 50/50 weight ratio should be more square with pressure. The factory recommendation is 32 PSI front and rear, if you are 38 rear and you are 20% over-inflated. You were at the limit and the rears slid it seems to me.
My recommended pressure is 35 front, 38 rear. Odd that yours is different since it looks like we have the same 2014 335i and even the same wheels.

Anyway, to the OPs question I think hes figured that not all tires squeal all the time. It really depends on the specific circumstances and the individual tires.
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      03-27-2018, 12:06 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harperium View Post
Went out for an experiment today - found a large mostly empty parking lot (50 miles away!). Drove at 25 mph and then took some hard 90 degree turns - no throttle, no brakes. The rear tires did in fact squeal a bit, and there was negligible sliding, with the DSC light flashing. But the car was very well composed - I must say, the 340 is quite tossable and the the A/S 3+ tires had a surprising amount of grip.

Sport vs Sport Plus made no difference. But I was only making 90 degree turns.

So what I think happened yesterday was that the "15 mph only" curve had really worn pavement with poor friction - ground didn't seem wet, but who knows... So at the apex of the curve I must have lost grip in the rear slightly, but without enough friction the rubber didn't squeal.

Next month autocross starts and summer tires can go back on...
Invalid test.

Go try the original 15 MPH curve at 60.
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      03-27-2018, 09:24 AM   #19
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If I lose grip laterally without accelerating, it typically doesn't squeel. Especially with traction control on. It's only when accelerating and I see the rpms jump that the tires make noise. Especially with all-seasons. If you were actually pushing the car through the turn, you probably would have heard it. But taking a turn quickly with some slip won't make the tires peel out.
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      03-27-2018, 07:11 PM   #20
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At that temperature, A/S start losing substantial amounts of traction as the tread isn't as pliable.

You can get tons of slip/drift before you hear rubber squeal (especially when they are cold).
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      03-28-2018, 06:41 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
At that temperature, A/S start losing substantial amounts of traction as the tread isn't as pliable.

You can get tons of slip/drift before you hear rubber squeal (especially when they are cold).
I disagree. All-seasons shouldn't be affected by 40 degree temps. the whole AS3+ selling point is that you get summer tire performance in colder temps. Even my summers don't feel loose down to 30*F.
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      03-28-2018, 08:22 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
At that temperature, A/S start losing substantial amounts of traction as the tread isn't as pliable.

You can get tons of slip/drift before you hear rubber squeal (especially when they are cold).
I disagree. All-seasons shouldn't be affected by 40 degree temps. the whole AS3+ selling point is that you get summer tire performance in colder temps. Even my summers don't feel loose down to 30*F.
https://arstechnica.com/features/201...l-about-tires/
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