[F87source]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Cruising IATs are more or less irrelevant for IC performance. Even the stock IC should keep steady-state cruise IATs as close to ambient as an aftermarket one since there is basically no thermal load on the IC. The only thing that really brought my cruising IATs closer to ambient was using gold reflective heat wrap on my CP and i can get within about 5F of ambient now (i.e., at steady 65-80 mph on freeway). But what really matters is the IAT control under high boost. So we need some datalogs of long pulls.

Not necessarily:

1) even while cruising at high speeds you still generate 2-3 psi of boost. That still adds heat.

2) on a hot day you will get heat soaking from both the intake air. Again adding heat. Even the engine bay gets hot providing more heat to the equation.

There will always be a heat source, do the only time you will ever get ambient temperatures is if you have a super high thermal mass absorbing all the heat until that mass heat soaks. So what I see with the bms intercooler is it stays exactly at ambient for a couple of minutes during my warm up until it heat soaks. Even air to water intercoolers don't hold iats at ambient. Even while at -30C it won't be ambient it'll be warmer.

3) even with the stock intercooler on a 32C day I never see close to ambient, its more so near 62C even at high speed... So I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers but they're overly optimistic. Only on a cold day I was able to get close to ambient but it was never as small of a delta as 5F, normally I would see a 5C- 10C delta on the crap stock intercooler.


4) with cruising you can see how well that increased surface area is able to disappate heat therefore lowering iats. If the intercooler is better you'll see lower iats and that's exactly what I and many others have observed with an upgrade intercooler vs. stock. This won't be able to differentiate maximum thermal capacity that the intercooler will be able to disappate because you won't be able to generate enough heat.

With bill he wasn't even close to ambient temps on a cold day while cruising so clearly something is wrong.

5) with high rpm high gear long pulls you'll be able to more accurately see maximum thermal capacity that the intercooler is able to disappate and how well it'll hold/control iats.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Cruising IATs are more or less irrelevant for IC performance. Even the stock IC should keep steady-state cruise IATs as close to ambient as an aftermarket one since there is basically no thermal load on the IC. The only thing that really brought my cruising IATs closer to ambient was using gold reflective heat wrap on my CP and i can get within about 5F of ambient now (i.e., at steady 65-80 mph on freeway). But what really matters is the IAT control under high boost. So we need some datalogs of long pulls.

Also show me those logs there is no way you're hitting 5F deltas over ambient at 80 mph.

[SlumpLord3000]

Originally Posted by F87source

Also show me those logs there is no way you're hitting 5F deltas over ambient at 80 mph.

Heat wrapped CP helps him do that.

On a side note I also wonder if heat wrapping boost pipe would help.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by SlumpLord3000

Heat wrapped CP helps him do that.

On a side note I also wonder if heat wrapping boost pipe would help.

I doubt it. Charge pipe hear soak is not a huge factor if at all.


On a cooler ~20C day I touched the charge pipe after a hard drive and it was only warm to the touch like barely warm. The throttle body was hotter. The surrounding engine bay was also hotter than the charge pipes by a fair bit.

On a hot day intentionally letting the intercooler heat soak when I touched the charge pipe it was hotter than the engine bays surroundings. This means it's radiating heat Due to heat soak and not absorbing it. The intake in every scenario is always significantly hotter than the charge pipes. That's likely where alot of the heat soak comes from.


So I doubt even with heat tape he is able to hit 5F deltas, the intercooler would heat soak no matter what. You guys always under estimate the volume of air flow even while at steady state. Even at 80 mph there's enough air flow and boost being generated to heat tgat intercooler up and make iats stay above ambient. Plus with a single pass intercooler air won't stay in the heat exchanging loop long enough to drop to ambient temps, that's why radiators are multi pass in design. I've seen logs of m2c guys with a superior air to water intercooler not get less than 10-15 F deltas. And that's with a superior doing setup with water's insane thermal capacity and a large radiator to disappate the heat.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by F87source

I doubt it. Charge pipe hear soak is not a huge factor if at all.


On a cooler ~20C day I touched the charge pipe after a hard drive and it was only warm to the touch like barely warm. The throttle body was hotter. The surrounding engine bay was also hotter than the charge pipes by a fair bit.

On a hot day intentionally letting the intercooler heat soak when I touched the charge pipe it was hotter than the engine bays surroundings. This means it's radiating heat Due to heat soak and not absorbing it. The intake in every scenario is always significantly hotter than the charge pipes. That's likely where alot of the heat soak comes from.


So I doubt even with heat tape he is able to hit 5F deltas, the intercooler would heat soak no matter what. You guys always under estimate the volume of air flow even while at steady state. Even at 80 mph there's enough air flow and boost being generated to heat tgat intercooler up and make iats stay above ambient. Plus with a single pass intercooler air won't stay in the heat exchanging loop long enough to drop to ambient temps, that's why radiators are multi pass in design. I've seen logs of m2c guys with a superior air to water intercooler not get less than 10-15 F deltas. And that's with a superior doing setup with water's insane thermal capacity and a large radiator to disappate the heat.

You're conflating two different things here. You can think of it that heat wrapping the CP affects the opposition situation as a IC upgrade. Heat wrapping the CP makes a very noticeable difference in low load/boost situations when you are not flowing a lot of air through the engine (i.e., when MAF reading is low for example). In these mostly steady state situations the air flow is sufficiently low in volume and velocity that heat easily transfers from the CP, TB, and intake manifold to the cold-side air before it makes it to the MAP sensor (that reads IATs) and the engine. Same reason why IATs continue to rise when you are at a stoplight or in traffic then immediately go back down once you start flowing air through the engine. In these situations the IC is more of less out of the equation since all the heat transfer occurs on the cold side.

The heat wrap on the CP has basically zero impact on IATs under high boost/load, WOT, etc. Your IATs are going to be dicatated by how much the IC can cool the charge air. The IAT right out the cold side of the IC is going to be unchanged by the time it reaches the MAP sensor, unlike the former situation where it can easily rise 10F+.

I extensively tested IATs during all stages of my modding, including when i tested 3 different intakes (extensive datalogging, taking videos of steady state IATs to evaluate delta over ambient, etc). I also tested them before/after heat wrapping CP. Sorry, but your logic as to what you experienced what you did in the scearios you described is backwards. The CP was cooler that the rest of the engine bay in your first example because you just did hard driving. This is the 2nd situation i described above. The CP was basically cooled from the inside out by the cold side air. It didnt have time to absorb the heat from the surrounding engine bay/block/etc.

In your 2nd scenario when you let things heat soak the CP was hotter because you weren't flowing enough air and it had sufficient time to absorb heat from everything around it in the engine bay. This is the scenario where the heat wrap makes a huge difference. The CP goes from too hot to touch to basically cool to the touch, even if you sit at traffic or at idle, because the gold wrap reflects radiative heat transfer. The only heat transfer is therefore conductive from the TB and that is a very small fraction of what the CP typically absorbs when it was 200F+ air, metal, etc, surrounding it, especially when the CPs are typically black (the most absorptive color). (Heat transfer from IC negligible since the cold side is always cooler than CP, so if anything this is helping).

Finally, the heat soak does not come from the intake. As i said before i did extenvie testing, including with the CTS which is a black, metal, open air underhood intake and it had zero impact on IATs in both steady state situations. I have the videos to show it (like the one i will post shortly in response to your claim im lying about the 5F), and datalogs, and discussed it in my intake testing thread. I was going to heat wrap my entire intake and inlet as well, but from all my testing it showed that it didnt matter. I still argue from a practical prespective it seems like in theory it would make a difference in something like a track session where constantly sucking in 140F air would heat soak the IC more than sucking in ambient ~80F air but i have seen no data to support that.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by F87source

Also show me those logs there is no way you're hitting 5F deltas over ambient at 80 mph.

I'll do you one better. I have a video from when i was doing my intake testing. As i said in my post above i tried this with the stock intake, CTS, and dinan. There was no change in steady state IATs. The WOT IATs were the same as well (in terms of delta over ambient to control for ambient temp changes), as documented in my intake testing thread.

You can see IATs as the 2nd gauge down on the left column of the tablet. IATs are on the dash and i also narrate both. Note i waited until the car was FULLY warmed up to do this test to make it as fair as possible. Oil temps 245F driving for 15+ mins.

So yeah, I am. And the heat wrapped CP is the reason why, as i explained in my post above.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I'll do you one better. I have a video from when i was doing my intake testing. As i said in my post above i tried this with the stock intake, CTS, and dinan. There was no change in steady state IATs. The WOT IATs were the same as well (in terms of delta over ambient to control for ambient temp changes), as documented in my intake testing thread.

You can see IATs as the 2nd gauge down on the left column of the tablet. IATs are on the dash and i also narrate both. Note i waited until the car was FULLY warmed up to do this test to make it as fair as possible. Oil temps 245F driving for 15+ mins.

So yeah, I am. And the heat wrapped CP is the reason why, as i explained in my post above.

For the charge pipe I've done both tests doing hard driving and slow bumper to bumper driving on a cooler day, and I've even let the charge pipe sit for 30 mins in the hot engine bay to test heat soak and it still was cool.

The only time I've seen the charge pipe hot is when the intercooler heat soaks on a hot day. Regardless of highway driving or bumper to bumper the same scenario occurs. And in this instance the charge pipes were way hotter than the engine bay around it so there's no way it could've gained that heat from the surroundings. The heat had to come from somewhere and that was the air stream from inside of the pipe. It's the same with the plastic charge pipes which act like an insulator.


Next the tmap measures iats not the map. Next I've also seen that when I let the car heat soak to 60C iats just starting the engine can generate enough air flow to drop those temps to 50C so there still is enough air flow in those pipes to drop temps to the intercoolers soak temp. Air is also a fantastic insulator so there's no way that the air has enough time to heat soak all the way through with contact to the CP it would literally have to be sitting still and that's just not what's happening in the CP, there still enkhb air flow at those rpms. Keep on mind I have a 6mt so rpms are always higher so more air is being moved.


2nd fantastic video I have to watch it on my laptop because it's hard to see the numbers on my phone. Personally I am sticking with the stock intake as there have been intake dynos done on the m2 forum and there are zero gains with the mppk/m2 air box bottom.

I do have some questions:

1) what driving mode are you in? Because your oil temperatures are so high, my m2 never sees over 205F oil temps in sport+ and even in comfort mode it's not that much higher.

2) what intercooler do you have?


3) do you have a tune?


4) do you have an upgraded diverter valve? Because if your top left gauge is boost I'm noticing you're on vaccum. For my m2 I'm always on boost even at high way speeds going steady state.


5) it's still crazy seeing these numbers because even the s55 engine with it's extremely short post intercooler to throttle body charge pipe cannot get 5F deltas even during steady state driving. You're the only one I have seen be able to do that.

[F87source]

I wanted to note another few things:

1) I'm at altitude as well so the air is less dense here so cooling is reduced, yet I'm still seeing better iat deltas vs bill.

2) I think the differences in tune profiles of the m2 and the 335i are responsible for the differences in iat it's a possibility.

3) I'm still looking for an ir thermometer this will give me definitive proof if the intercooler is heat soaking and bringing up iats or if the cp is heat soaking.

The reason why I'm fairly certain it's the intercooler is because:

a) the engine bay surrounding the cp is always cooler from what I am observing vs. the cp itself. And since heat flows from high to low the heat must be coming from inside of the cp, cooler surroundings simply cannot heat up a hotter object. Again only real numbers can verify this, I could be deluded and feeling things wrong or I'm not sampling enough spots to fully get an accurate reading.

b) even if air speed is reduced in the cp at idle it's still moving fast enough that a hotter exterior cp (if heat soak is real and the cp is hotter than the cold side air) wouldn't be able to fully heat the entire air volume up fast enough before it enters the engine. This is because air is such a good insulator hence why super thin aero gel even exposed to a direct flame can insulate ice and keep it from melting for long exposures. This is the same with the hot cp, only the very outer layers of air are exposed to the metal CP and that's enough to insulate the inner layers.

Whereas if the air was hot like a blow dryer it would be able to heat up the metal CP to it's temperature.

So this Is my logic for what's happening in the cp, so I'm fairly certain it's not heat soaking. But again I need the it thermometer, which is still hard to get because of the pandemic and the prices are like $200 CAD so I'm not keen on spending that.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by F87source

For the charge pipe I've done both tests doing hard driving and slow bumper to bumper driving on a cooler day, and I've even let the charge pipe sit for 30 mins in the hot engine bay to test heat soak and it still was cool.

The only time I've seen the charge pipe hot is when the intercooler heat soaks on a hot day. Regardless of highway driving or bumper to bumper the same scenario occurs. And in this instance the charge pipes were way hotter than the engine bay around it so there's no way it could've gained that heat from the surroundings. The heat had to come from somewhere and that was the air stream from inside of the pipe. It's the same with the plastic charge pipes which act like an insulator.


Next the tmap measures iats not the map. Next I've also seen that when I let the car heat soak to 60C iats just starting the engine can generate enough air flow to drop those temps to 50C so there still is enough air flow in those pipes to drop temps to the intercoolers soak temp. Air is also a fantastic insulator so there's no way that the air has enough time to heat soak all the way through with contact to the CP it would literally have to be sitting still and that's just not what's happening in the CP, there still enkhb air flow at those rpms. Keep on mind I have a 6mt so rpms are always higher so more air is being moved.


2nd fantastic video I have to watch it on my laptop because it's hard to see the numbers on my phone. Personally I am sticking with the stock intake as there have been intake dynos done on the m2 forum and there are zero gains with the mppk/m2 air box bottom.

I do have some questions:

1) what driving mode are you in? Because your oil temperatures are so high, my m2 never sees over 205F oil temps in sport+ and even in comfort mode it's not that much higher.

2) what intercooler do you have?


3) do you have a tune?


4) do you have an upgraded diverter valve? Because if your top left gauge is boost I'm noticing you're on vaccum. For my m2 I'm always on boost even at high way speeds going steady state.


5) it's still crazy seeing these numbers because even the s55 engine with it's extremely short post intercooler to throttle body charge pipe cannot get 5F deltas even during steady state driving. You're the only one I have seen be able to do that.

My tests on the CP pre-heat wrap included using an IR temp gun. I also tested the intake (OEM) and various other parts of the engine bay/components. I think i have a video of that (never uploaded), ill try and look for it later. It was part of my motivation.

There's no way the IC is heat soaking during highway driving. It takes basically zero boost to maintain highway speeds, and there is more than enough airflow to keep the IC at more or less ambient temps (of course never equal, but only very slightly above). Traffic/stoplights is a completely different scenario as there would be heat transfer from the radiator and AC condenser from behind and not enough airflow to keep IC temps close to ambient. You can confirm this with a IR gun as well. I have the videos and data that clearly show the IC does not get heat soaked while driving on the highway. If this was true then when i accelerated in the video the IATs would increase, but they do the opposite - i build 10psi of boost in 8th gear and the IATs decrease down to 5F over ambient, so clearly the IC is colder than the CP and MAP sensor. There is no heat coming from inside the pipe and if your CP is not heat wrapped, it is constantly absorbing heat from the surroundings and being "cooled from the inside out" in this situation.

Ive heard both ways (MAP in manifold and CP MAP) give the temp reading. IIRC the sensors are interchangeable on some cars. I am not 100% certain which one the DME is using. But in any case, while there is of course still airflow even at idle (throttle is about 9% IIRC), its slow enough and low enough in volume to allow heat transfer from the CP to the air to raise IATs. Infact, my video clearly demonstrates that even while maintaining cruise at 75 mph, the air is still slow enough and low enough in volume to absorb heat from the CP. Thus, when i apply a little more throttle to accelerate from 75-85mph, the IATs drop down to 5F above ambient from 11F above ambient. If what you are saying its true there would be zero change in that situation because "there's no way that the air has enough time to heat soak all the way through with contact to the CP". So, that's just not right.

I am running stock intake with MPPK bottom. I already clearly demonstrated that adding the MPPK aribox bottom with the MSTv2 inlet decreases WGDC and further improves throttle response (over stock inlet or MST with stock bottom). That's documented in this thread: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1656337&page=8. So, while there may be no peak HP gain, as is the case with a load based tune, there is a tangible benefit in both subjective drivability and in the data.

1. Driving in comfort/D. Normal oil temps are 245F. I have Mpsort so i have the aux oil cooler but thats irrelevant because the OEM F3x oil thermostat doesnt open until basically 240/245F. I dont think the M2 one is different, but i dont have that car so wont speak to that. The only way oil temp goes lower (with OEM oil thermostat) is if you lower coolant temp target by either (1) very high ambient temps, (2) hard driving in sport/+, or (3) flash option for increased cooling. But with none of those conditions, coolant sits at 230F or so and oil at 245F under cruise conditions. This is when i did the testing so that the engine/bay were as hot as possible to put the highest thermal load on the IC/CP/etc.

2. VRSF 5'' HD

3. MHD stage 2+ E20 map

4. OEM DV. I don't see any reason why you would be in boost... Cruise control at 75 mph is basically 0.0 (atm pres) or slight vacuum. If you are in boost at highway cruise you either have very high drag/rolling resistance or are going uphill. Fuel economy would be awful if you needed boost to drive on the highway.

5. Well that's because my CP is heat wrapped and i have done everything possible to optimize my setup

Relevant mods for context:

2015 335i Msport; MST v2 inlet; stock intake, mppk bottom, dry drop in filter; VRSF IC+CP+TIC, CP heat wrapped, TIC is not since its hot side, MHD stage 2+ E20 map, XHP stage 3, fabspeed catted DP

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by F87source

I wanted to note another few things:

1) I'm at altitude as well so the air is less dense here so cooling is reduced, yet I'm still seeing better iat deltas vs bill.

2) I think the differences in tune profiles of the m2 and the 335i are responsible for the differences in iat it's a possibility.

3) I'm still looking for an ir thermometer this will give me definitive proof if the intercooler is heat soaking and bringing up iats or if the cp is heat soaking.

The reason why I'm fairly certain it's the intercooler is because:

a) the engine bay surrounding the cp is always cooler from what I am observing vs. the cp itself. And since heat flows from high to low the heat must be coming from inside of the cp, cooler surroundings simply cannot heat up a hotter object. Again only real numbers can verify this, I could be deluded and feeling things wrong or I'm not sampling enough spots to fully get an accurate reading.

b) even if air speed is reduced in the cp at idle it's still moving fast enough that a hotter exterior cp (if heat soak is real and the cp is hotter than the cold side air) wouldn't be able to fully heat the entire air volume up fast enough before it enters the engine. This is because air is such a good insulator hence why super thin aero gel even exposed to a direct flame can insulate ice and keep it from melting for long exposures. This is the same with the hot cp, only the very outer layers of air are exposed to the metal CP and that's enough to insulate the inner layers.

Whereas if the air was hot like a blow dryer it would be able to heat up the metal CP to it's temperature.

So this Is my logic for what's happening in the cp, so I'm fairly certain it's not heat soaking. But again I need the it thermometer, which is still hard to get because of the pandemic and the prices are like $200 CAD so I'm not keen on spending that.

1. I would say this is negligible but it depends on your elevation.

2. I dont see how this makes a different either. I am tuned in the video i showed but i did IAT tested even back to when i was on stock tune/fully stock car, stock tune with IC, stage 1 with IC, etc etc. In the situation we are discussing at cruise, the tune or more or less irrelevant because irrespective of tune the car needs a certain amount of power to maintain that speed.

3. I already proved this with my videos and testing but you can continue investigating if you like. The video clearly demonstrates the IC is not heat soaked at cruise or else IATs would not drop further when i accelerated into 10psi of boost. Whether or not the IAT goes significant over ambient while in traffic or stopped at a light depends on if the fan is running.

a) This is 100% false and i dont know why you keep saying this. The engine block and items surrounding the CP are at engine oil/coolant temp, which is well over 200F. The air temp is the air coming from the radiator which is around the same. The CP temperature starts at the temperature of the cold side IC air, which is absolutely never as high as 200F. So the CP is basically ALWAYS absorbing heat from the surroundings, primarily via radiation from the components and convective heat transfer from the air coming from the radiator. I'm not trying to be argumentative but i literally do not understand how you can say the direction of heat transfer is not from the air/surrounding components to the CP?? There's no way the air inside the CP is hotter, so there's no way heat is flowing from inside the CP to the outside.

b) Wrong and i clearly demonstrated this in my video as well. The air in the CP is turbulent in most situations which significantly increases its ability to transfer heat. If the flow was laminar your argument might have some merit (i.e., only the outside layer of air heats up and it doesnt make its way to the center of the CP) but thats not the case.

Like i said i literally have evidence to demonstrate everything i am saying, that the CP is constantly absorbing heat from the surroundings, etc.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by SlumpLord3000

Heat wrapped CP helps him do that.

On a side note I also wonder if heat wrapping boost pipe would help.

I was on the fence about heat wrapping the TIC. I ended up NOT doing so, because i didnt have hard data to show that the air inside the TIC would not be the same or hotter than surroundings. The air coming out of the turbo is probably around 200F (ballpark, again no data), and the surrounding air is probably the same. It is very close to the turbo/manifold/DP, but there's so much stuff around it i wasn't sure if that alone was enough to warrant heat wrap. Since its pre-IC i think either way it would be negligible. I couldn't find a good way to test TIC temps.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I was on the fence about heat wrapping the TIC. I ended up NOT doing so, because i didnt have hard data to show that the air inside the TIC would not be the same or hotter than surroundings. The air coming out of the turbo is probably around 200F (ballpark, again no data), and the surrounding air is probably the same. It is very close to the turbo/manifold/DP, but there's so much stuff around it i wasn't sure if that alone was enough to warrant heat wrap. Since its pre-IC i think either way it would be negligible. I couldn't find a good way to test TIC temps.

Yes you're correct the air coming out of the turbo is really hot, I've heard ps2 guys testing the csf intercooler report it being as hot as 200c. So no need to wrap that side.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

1. I would say this is negligible but it depends on your elevation.

2. I dont see how this makes a different either. I am tuned in the video i showed but i did IAT tested even back to when i was on stock tune/fully stock car, stock tune with IC, stage 1 with IC, etc etc. In the situation we are discussing at cruise, the tune or more or less irrelevant because irrespective of tune the car needs a certain amount of power to maintain that speed.

3. I already proved this with my videos and testing but you can continue investigating if you like. The video clearly demonstrates the IC is not heat soaked at cruise or else IATs would not drop further when i accelerated into 10psi of boost. Whether or not the IAT goes significant over ambient while in traffic or stopped at a light depends on if the fan is running.

a) This is 100% false and i dont know why you keep saying this. The engine block and items surrounding the CP are at engine oil/coolant temp, which is well over 200F. The air temp is the air coming from the radiator which is around the same. The CP temperature starts at the temperature of the cold side IC air, which is absolutely never as high as 200F. So the CP is basically ALWAYS absorbing heat from the surroundings, primarily via radiation from the components and convective heat transfer from the air coming from the radiator. I'm not trying to be argumentative but i literally do not understand how you can say the direction of heat transfer is not from the air/surrounding components to the CP?? There's no way the air inside the CP is hotter, so there's no way heat is flowing from inside the CP to the outside.

b) Wrong and i clearly demonstrated this in my video as well. The air in the CP is turbulent in most situations which significantly increases its ability to transfer heat. If the flow was laminar your argument might have some merit (i.e., only the outside layer of air heats up and it doesnt make its way to the center of the CP) but thats not the case.

Like i said i literally have evidence to demonstrate everything i am saying, that the CP is constantly absorbing heat from the surroundings, etc.

In regards to the others I'll verify it and report back when I get my ir gun, but my car does run on boost as low as 1 psi or as high as 3 psi even on high way driving. And oil temps and coolant temps never exceed 97C and 82c while high way driving it also stays at 92C and 82c while idling all day.


I don't want to cluster my intercooler review thread up, but you provide interesting data. I'll test it on my car and I'll see about wrapping the cp as well to test the results. But I highly doubt I'll get within 5F of ambients, I have yet to see anyone else do it even when wrapping the cp or using high insulting pipes like the factory plastic or silicone. Or even on the s55 with a super short cold side charge pipe.


Yes you are correct both map and tmap sensors are the same p/n, but only the cp one measures temp. The manifold one just measures boost to determine deviations when the throttle closes.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I was on the fence about heat wrapping the TIC. I ended up NOT doing so, because i didnt have hard data to show that the air inside the TIC would not be the same or hotter than surroundings. The air coming out of the turbo is probably around 200F (ballpark, again no data), and the surrounding air is probably the same. It is very close to the turbo/manifold/DP, but there's so much stuff around it i wasn't sure if that alone was enough to warrant heat wrap. Since its pre-IC i think either way it would be negligible. I couldn't find a good way to test TIC temps.

But I would like to say thank you for the data it is very much appreciate, I'll take a look into it and report back.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by F87source

I don't want to cluster my intercooler review thread up, but you provide interesting data.

Sorry i think its too late for that lol, didnt mean to go off topic but that's the nature of the forums and where the discussion took us.

Finally, since you said you couldnt easily see the video, I took this screenshot and annotated so you can see. The numbers on the gauges should be readable. The monitoring is done with MHD.

Interested to see any data you collect on the IC and/or CP.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Sorry i think its too late for that lol, didnt mean to go off topic but that's the nature of the forums and where the discussion took us.

Finally, since you said you couldnt easily see the video, I took this screenshot and annotated so you can see. The numbers on the gauges should be readable. The monitoring is done with MHD.

Interested to see any data you collect on the IC and/or CP.

LoL yeah it's too late but what can you do.

Thanks for the annotation, and yeah I'll report back! But having constant boost probably doesn't help with temperature. At low speeds I'm off boost but at high speed I do see some boost.

[SlumpLord3000]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Sorry i think its too late for that lol, didnt mean to go off topic but that's the nature of the forums and where the discussion took us.

Finally, since you said you couldnt easily see the video, I took this screenshot and annotated so you can see. The numbers on the gauges should be readable. The monitoring is done with MHD.

Interested to see any data you collect on the IC and/or CP.

Those Coolant temps are really good. When I had VRSF coated no cat DP, they were in high 230s but since I had my stock cat installed back, I noticed there are back to regular high 240s.

Are you running Redline Water Wetter by any chance or did the car not heat up yet or is that your regular coolant temps?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by SlumpLord3000

Those Coolant temps are really good. When I had VRSF coated no cat DP, they were in high 230s but since I had my stock cat installed back, I noticed there are back to regular high 240s.

Are you running Redline Water Wetter by any chance or did the car not heat up yet or is that your regular coolant temps?

Are these temps in sport+? Because sport+ has a more agressive cooling profile for the thermostat.


But my car sees 82C water temps regardless of ambient temperatures, so that's 180F. 230-240F is so high because at 117C or 245F that's the beginning of limp mode where the ECU starts pulling timing, there is a huge discussion about this on the m2 forum where the heavy track guys are fighting coolant temps.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by SlumpLord3000

Those Coolant temps are really good. When I had VRSF coated no cat DP, they were in high 230s but since I had my stock cat installed back, I noticed there are back to regular high 240s.

Are you running Redline Water Wetter by any chance or did the car not heat up yet or is that your regular coolant temps?

Your DP should have zero impact on coolant temps under normal driving conditions (i.e., unless your car is unable to keep up with cooling demands). The cooling system, especially Msport with aux radiator, is very good and unless you are tracking you should not exceed its cooling capabilities.

As alluded to above, the DME will lower the coolant temp target depending on a number of factors including (1) ambient temps, (2) drive mode / driving style, and (3) flash options.

For (1), if it goes over about 105F ambient temps, the car will automatically target a much lower coolant temp. It seems paradoxical but if its cold outside the car runs hot and if its hot outside the car runs colder. For example coolant temps are usually 225-230F and oil temp 245F if its anything below about 85F. If its over 105F or so (these are not bright lines), from my experience when it was 117F outside, coolant temp target went down to 185F and oil temp lowered as a result, down to about 220F or so.

For (2) if you are in sport/+ and/or you start driving aggressively, the car lowers the coolant temp target. Could be anywhere between 185F and 225F.

For (3) you can flash the cooling options. I tried the moderate one and normal coolant temp went down from about 225 to 205, but i found my fan running ALOT, so i turned it off.

The car was fully hot in that video and i dont run anything besides stock coolant. If you are at high 240s you have a problem.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Your DP should have zero impact on coolant temps under normal driving conditions (i.e., unless your car is unable to keep up with cooling demands). The cooling system, especially Msport with aux radiator, is very good and unless you are tracking you should not exceed its cooling capabilities.

As alluded to above, the DME will lower the coolant temp target depending on a number of factors including (1) ambient temps, (2) drive mode / driving style, and (3) flash options.

For (1), if it goes over about 105F ambient temps, the car will automatically target a much lower coolant temp. It seems paradoxical but if its cold outside the car runs hot and if its hot outside the car runs colder. For example coolant temps are usually 225-230F and oil temp 245F if its anything below about 85F. If its over 105F or so (these are not bright lines), from my experience when it was 117F outside, coolant temp target went down to 185F and oil temp lowered as a result, down to about 220F or so.

For (2) if you are in sport/+ and/or you start driving aggressively, the car lowers the coolant temp target. Could be anywhere between 185F and 225F.

For (3) you can flash the cooling options. I tried the moderate one and normal coolant temp went down from about 225 to 205, but i found my fan running ALOT, so i turned it off.

The car was fully hot in that video and i dont run anything besides stock coolant. If you are at high 240s you have a problem.

Yes if you look at the ecu tables the ambient temperature vs. cooling targets show that as ambient temperatures drop the coolant targets increase to prevent the engine from being over cooled. This in turn drives up oil temperatures through the oil/coolant heat exchanger so oil temps also don't get too cold in the winter.


on the m2 side of things cooling is maxed even in stock form, if you add any more power you will run into cooling problems on the track.