[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by thatBimmerBloke

Yes that would be one way of putting it I believe with Stage 2 E30 map I'm making somewhere around 360-370whp. Will the 2+ E30 with just upgraded HPFP take me beyond 400whp? And will I benefit from custom E50 or will the stock turbo be a limiting factor?

That's what they said: 420-430 with stock turbo. https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...76&postcount=5

I think that's an estimated upper limit. The car they tested had a PS2. But low 400s seems in line with some custom tune data with upgraded HPFP. I honestly dont think you would gain much by doing a E50 custom tune compared with the new E30 OTS maps on stock turbo, certainly not from a HP/$ perspective. But i think it would be very interesting to see someone with BM3 who already has a Exx custom tune flash this new OTS map and provide back to back datalogs (can use virtual dyno), or even better, dyno runs (wishful thinking).

[thatBimmerBloke]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

That's what they said: 420-430 with stock turbo. https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...76&postcount=5

I think that's an estimated upper limit. The car they tested had a PS2. But low 400s seems in line with some custom tune data with upgraded HPFP. I honestly dont think you would gain much by doing a E50 custom tune compared with the new E30 OTS maps on stock turbo, certainly not from a HP/$ perspective. But i think it would be very interesting to see someone with BM3 who already has a Exx custom tune flash this new OTS map and provide back to back datalogs (can use virtual dyno), or even better, dyno runs (wishful thinking).

50whp bump sounds good Will the Dorch Stage 1 be enough or it's better to go with stage 2 and be done with it for once? Or is there a better option that's easier on the pocket also?

[FastF30]

this is great.... just curious why E30... I still feel there is a little more to extract from the stock turbo... did he test E50 etc...? or is this just a marketing thing... in a few months we'll see E50 etc...

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by thatBimmerBloke

50whp bump sounds good Will the Dorch Stage 1 be enough or it's better to go with stage 2 and be done with it for once? Or is there a better option that's easier on the pocket also?

Stage 1 enough for stock turbo but why not future proof is my opinion. If i ever HPFP it will be a stage 2 or equivalent flow (FX150 is around there). Several options for HPFP out there to consider now. Black friday sales might be key to save $$$.

[imperfectluck]

Originally Posted by FastF30

this is great.... just curious why E30... I still feel there is a little more to extract from the stock turbo... did he test E50 etc...? or is this just a marketing thing... in a few months we'll see E50 etc...

Eh, I wouldn't look at it as a marketing this because he's targeted E30 for quite sometime now including the B58 both F and G series as well as S55 and S58. I could safely assume that if it hasn't been done for the others especially the S platforms, why would the N55 be the one outlier to the group? Wouldn't you find it odd if an E50 map were made for the N20 but none of the others?

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by imperfectluck

Eh, I wouldn't look at it as a marketing this because he's targeted E30 for quite sometime now including the B58 both F and G series as well as S55 and S58. I could safely assume that if it hasn't been done for the others especially the S platforms, why would the N55 be the one outlier to the group? Wouldn't you find it odd if an E50 map were made for the N20 but none of the others?

I've seen impressive numbers on E50 for the B58 all due to fueling and good tuning... Just curious why E30 and not E50... I'm running MHD so it would cost me just as much going custom tune MHD or purchasing BM3... that's all...

[imperfectluck]

@FastF30 Ah, didn't realize you were MHD. Was just stating from a historical perspective across the line up its consistency using e30. I can't answer on his behalf but I'm sure would could come up with a number of reasons such as demand for e50 vs e30, support for e50 across the board , etc. I'm sure there is a valid reason and I trust Halim@HCP and his reasons.

[jbiswurm]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

i am located in CT and noticed this year that either boostane changed their formula OR the fuel in our area has actually decreased in octane even further. my solution was to install a water meth system and now my octane exceeds the needs of the race gas tune.

last year i added about 4oz of boostane pro to each tank with 93 fuel and ran the 91 tune with clean logs. this year, the logs had alot of timing drops. i increased to about 6oz and still no affect. this is when i gave up on it and moved onto to WMI.

I will say I really am I a believer now in varying gas quality having a major impact on timing. After trying multiple shell and mobil stations and having horrible timing and knock events, I decided to try a BP.... however, I was apparently too tired to be driving because it was actually a Cumberland Farms station. I figured what the hell and filled up anyways. Ever since then I get the cleanest logs I could ever ask for:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f88...729b488dc3d7d3

Granted this on 93 Oct and the ACN 91 stage 1 tune, but so were the previous ones on Shell 93 Vower:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f5e...729b7f1676ca24

Note that I have taken 1+ lots of each and they were consistent. Just posting 1 to save some time.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by jbiswurm

I will say I really am I a believer now in varying gas quality having a major impact on timing. After trying multiple shell and mobil stations and having horrible timing and knock events, I decided to try a BP.... however, I was apparently too tired to be driving because it was actually a Cumberland Farms station. I figured what the hell and filled up anyways. Ever since then I get the cleanest logs I could ever ask for:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f88...729b488dc3d7d3

Granted this on 93 Oct and the ACN 91 stage 1 tune, but so were the previous ones on Shell 93 Vower:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f5e...729b7f1676ca24

Note that I have taken 1+ lots of each and they were consistent. Just posting 1 to save some time.

New log does look pretty good overall. I would note that IATs are quite low, which could have also been a factor in helping with clean timing. Also, this log shows the same erratic WGDC up top as the other stage 1 logs. (Nothing with your car, seems tuned-related). Nice log though.

The variability in pump gas quality/octane is just another reason why I will basically never go back to pump gas over E85 mixing.

[Joeirl92]

Hey guys,
My tuning experience has been quite the journey to say the least lol.

Went FBO and BM3 Stage 2 91 (CA) the same week my extended warranty expired. Everything seemed fine... until I went BM3 OTS E30 and basically my car had terrible timing and clutch slip.

Here is my updated log with the Spec 2+ clutch upgrade, and NGK plugs gapped at .0023. I did this log on a whim. I don't even think I was keeping track of my RPM's correctly due to timing constraints lol.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fb8...90c64d73a0a4fd

Mods: CTS Turbo Intake, ERW Charge Pipe, CTS Turbo Catless DP, Wagner EVO 2 Comp FMIC, AWE performance midpipe and axleback, NGK gapped plugs and SPEC Stage 2+ clutch upgrade.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Joeirl92

Hey guys,
My tuning experience has been quite the journey to say the least lol.

Went FBO and BM3 Stage 2 91 (CA) the same week my extended warranty expired. Everything seemed fine... until I went BM3 OTS E30 and basically my car had terrible timing and clutch slip.

Here is my updated log with the Spec 2+ clutch upgrade, and NGK plugs gapped at .0023. I did this log on a whim. I don't even think I was keeping track of my RPM's correctly due to timing constraints lol.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fb8...90c64d73a0a4fd

Mods: CTS Turbo Intake, ERW Charge Pipe, CTS Turbo Catless DP, Wagner EVO 2 Comp FMIC, AWE performance midpipe and axleback, NGK gapped plugs and SPEC Stage 2+ clutch upgrade.

Boost control looks fine.

Quite a few timing corrections. What E% did you target? Did you measure ethanol content from the pump? At the time same, you are getting some dips in HPFP pressure so i dont think you can go any higher in ethanol content to help. Any more ethanol and you will probably crash the HPFP.

[Joeirl92]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Boost control looks fine.

Quite a few timing corrections. What E% did you target? Did you measure ethanol content from the pump? At the time same, you are getting some dips in HPFP pressure so i dont think you can go any higher in ethanol content to help. Any more ethanol and you will probably crash the HPFP.

I did not measure on my last fill unfortunately. I think I just did 2.8gal of E85 and the rest 91. I'm going to have to do it properly to see if my timing is just fueling related. Since I'm pretty much at my ethanol max, what other options do I have?

Not sure if this is relevant, but I also have access to 100oct that I could work with.. Is CA's 91 that bad that a ~12 gal of 91 and 2.5-3.0 gal of E85 just isn't cutting it?

Thanks for checking my log jeremy!

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Joeirl92

I did not measure on my last fill unfortunately. I think I just did 2.8gal of E85 and the rest 91. I'm going to have to do it properly to see if my timing is just fueling related. Since I'm pretty much at my ethanol max, what other options do I have?

Not sure if this is relevant, but I also have access to 100oct that I could work with.. Is CA's 91 that bad that a ~12 gal of 91 and 2.5-3.0 gal of E85 just isn't cutting it?

Thanks for checking my log jeremy!

Do you frequently get your E85 from the same station? If so, i highly recommend you get a kit (i got the dual kit from FuelIt on amazon) and test the E85 and pump gas E%. If it's pearson fuels (i use their app to find stations but pretty much exclusively use the same one), its probably consistent, but i would still check.

As strange as it sounds, i actually tried adding ethanol (2-3 gal) and running the 91 map but still had timing corrections. When i switched to the E20 MHD S2+ map, which targets way more timing, i had fewer corrections. Of course, the E map runs lower boost, but not by much, and i was running more ethanol, but it just shows its a little tricky. If you are committed to running ethanol and really want to make power, i would suggest measuring the ethanol content, going for a E25 mix, and running the BM3 E30 OTS map. Log to check timing and HPFP. Read the "E30 fueling" thread for a good discussion and how to do that effectively.

The other tricky thing about adding ethanol to a pump gas map is that the pump gas maps target higher boost than the E maps. So, you can actually add more ethanol to the E map because the boost target is lower. Your log was showing upwards of 18psi, which is more than the HPFP can handle with any significant amount of E. So, you might not be at your ethanol max if you were to go to the E map.

100 octane would be fine if you were going to use it for a track day or something, but you probably wouldnt want to pay for that with every tank.

And yes, our fuel quality is terrible... I am in SoCal, and i used to run the 91 map. Once i went to the E20 map (MHD) and started mixing ethanol i never looked back. WAY more power and way more consistent timing. That's why the ACN maps exist in the first place, because our gas sucks.

[thatBimmerBloke]

Originally Posted by Joeirl92

I did not measure on my last fill unfortunately. I think I just did 2.8gal of E85 and the rest 91. I'm going to have to do it properly to see if my timing is just fueling related. Since I'm pretty much at my ethanol max, what other options do I have?

Not sure if this is relevant, but I also have access to 100oct that I could work with.. Is CA's 91 that bad that a ~12 gal of 91 and 2.5-3.0 gal of E85 just isn't cutting it?

Thanks for checking my log jeremy!

Let's say you added 2.8gallons of E85(85% ethanol) and topped off the tank with 91 octane (10% ethanol, tank ends up with 13 gallons of 91 octane), your resulting mix is at around E23, way below target. Without E content tester tube you can probably assume E85 and E10 and make the mix, use the ethanol calculator from brew city boost website. I'd suggest getting the larger test tube from fuel-it for testing, I think it was about $17, don't get the smaller one, less accurate. Not sure about clutch slippage but getting the mix right should help with timing.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by thatBimmerBloke

Let's say you added 2.8gallons of E85(85% ethanol) and topped off the tank with 91 octane (10% ethanol, tank ends up with 13 gallons of 91 octane), your resulting mix is at around E23, way below target. Without E content tester tube you can probably assume E85 and E10 and make the mix, use the ethanol calculator from brew city boost website. I'd suggest getting the larger test tube from fuel-it for testing, I think it was about $17, don't get the smaller one, less accurate. Not sure about clutch slippage but getting the mix right should help with timing.

FYI, he was mixing that ratio on the 91 map, not the E30 map, so there is no 'target' E% in that case. The reason his HPFP was dipping with only ~E23 is because he was on the 91 map, which runs more boost.

For kits, order this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You want the large tubes, with etched markings, and you want two tubes so you can easily do E85 and pump gas in the same stop. When doing the testing, be as precise as possible adding in the water to water line and fuel to fuel line. The easiest thing to do is bring a disposable cup, dispense from the nozzle into the cup, then use the pipettes included to transfer exact amount of fuel from cup into the tube.

[thatBimmerBloke]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

FYI, he was mixing that ratio on the 91 map, not the E30 map, so there is no 'target' E% in that case. The reason his HPFP was dipping with only ~E23 is because he was on the 91 map, which runs more boost.

For kits, order this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...UTF8&psc=1

You want the large tubes, with etched markings, and you want two tubes so you can easily do E85 and pump gas in the same stop. When doing the testing, be as precise as possible adding in the water to water line and fuel to fuel line. The easiest thing to do is bring a disposable cup, dispense from the nozzle into the cup, then use the pipettes included to transfer exact amount of fuel from cup into the tube.

I thought he was running the E30 map and that mix was targeting E30. Must've missed something in between 😀

[Joeirl92]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Do you frequently get your E85 from the same station? If so, i highly recommend you get a kit (i got the dual kit from FuelIt on amazon) and test the E85 and pump gas E%. If it's pearson fuels (i use their app to find stations but pretty much exclusively use the same one), its probably consistent, but i would still check.

As strange as it sounds, i actually tried adding ethanol (2-3 gal) and running the 91 map but still had timing corrections. When i switched to the E20 MHD S2+ map, which targets way more timing, i had fewer corrections. Of course, the E map runs lower boost, but not by much, and i was running more ethanol, but it just shows its a little tricky. If you are committed to running ethanol and really want to make power, i would suggest measuring the ethanol content, going for a E25 mix, and running the BM3 E30 OTS map. Log to check timing and HPFP. Read the "E30 fueling" thread for a good discussion and how to do that effectively.

The other tricky thing about adding ethanol to a pump gas map is that the pump gas maps target higher boost than the E maps. So, you can actually add more ethanol to the E map because the boost target is lower. Your log was showing upwards of 18psi, which is more than the HPFP can handle with any significant amount of E. So, you might not be at your ethanol max if you were to go to the E map.

100 octane would be fine if you were going to use it for a track day or something, but you probably wouldnt want to pay for that with every tank.

And yes, our fuel quality is terrible... I am in SoCal, and i used to run the 91 map. Once i went to the E20 map (MHD) and started mixing ethanol i never looked back. WAY more power and way more consistent timing. That's why the ACN maps exist in the first place, because our gas sucks.

Yes. I've been going to the same exact station for a few months now. It's a Propel Fuels and 76.

I'm really going to have to measure it. because I want to stick with Ethanol mixes. The loss in power from going back to stage 2 would eat me up inside lol! So going by your last reply, it would appear that I need more ethanol? Bimmerbloke estimated I had around E23 which is undershooting significantly. I'm going to go by your method and try for E25. Man, all this talk of MHD makes me want to make the switch. The Fueling is becoming quite the hassle man. It feels like I have very little room for error.

Reason I brought up 100oct was to compensate for our shit soCAL gas, i.e adding a gallon or 2. But I don't want to make 2 trips lol, and the price of 100 is insane.

And yes, I was at the BM3 E30 OTS map in that last log. sorry for not being more descriptive in my initial post. So for clarification, more boost requires more E with these E maps. And if we base it off of the E85/E10 assumption, it's safe to say I'm undershooting. In the end there's no true way of knowing until I start testing the content.

Back to the lab I go for more logs lol. I'm determined to get this right.

[Joeirl92]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

FYI, he was mixing that ratio on the 91 map, not the E30 map, so there is no 'target' E% in that case. The reason his HPFP was dipping with only ~E23 is because he was on the 91 map, which runs more boost.

For kits, order this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You want the large tubes, with etched markings, and you want two tubes so you can easily do E85 and pump gas in the same stop. When doing the testing, be as precise as possible adding in the water to water line and fuel to fuel line. The easiest thing to do is bring a disposable cup, dispense from the nozzle into the cup, then use the pipettes included to transfer exact amount of fuel from cup into the tube.

Ordered! Thanks again Jeremy! Just to clarify, that log was the stage 2 E30 map. I'll send it again in case I went crazy and sent the wrong log

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fb8...90c64d73a0a4fd

Originally Posted by thatBimmerBloke

I thought he was running the E30 map and that mix was targeting E30. Must've missed something in between 😀

That was actually the e30 stage 2 map.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fb8...90c64d73a0a4fd

Thanks for shooting me that link for the ethanol calculator!

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Joeirl92

Ordered! Thanks again Jeremy! Just to clarify, that log was the stage 2 E30 map. I'll send it again in case I went crazy and sent the wrong log

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fb8...90c64d73a0a4fd



That was actually the e30 stage 2 map.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fb8...90c64d73a0a4fd

Thanks for shooting me that link for the ethanol calculator!

My fault. I just reread your post and you said 91 then you said you switched to E30 map. So i just didnt read that 2nd part and neglected to look at the actual title of the log lol.

Anyways, I just took another quick look through the log. Given that your IATs are over 100F, my main concern with upping E% would be HPFP crash when its cooler outside. Having said that, i think the best approach right now is to get the test kit, test the E%, run your tank very low, then do a target mix of 25% and log that. In the meantime its not necessarily dangerous to run this map or anything. You could also just run the tank low and switch back to a pump gas map, up to you. You could also assuming E10/E85 for pump gas and E85, target a E30 mix based on those concentrations, and log that to see if its too much for the pump to handle. Depends on how patient you are.

[proTUNING Freaks]

Our annual promo is coming up this Black Friday weekend starting Nov 27th 12AM EST and ending Monday Nov 30th 11:59pm EST. Inquire with any of our Authorized Dealers for various product bundles and promos with bootmod3 included or use BF2020 on our website to purchase. Code valid Nov 27-Nov 30 2020

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks

Our annual promo is coming up this Black Friday weekend starting Nov 27th 12AM EST and ending Monday Nov 30th 11:59pm EST. Inquire with any of our Authorized Dealers for various product bundles and promos with bootmod3 included or use BF2020 on our website to purchase. Code valid Nov 27-Nov 30 2020

Free Enet cable, phone adapter and decals when you get bm3 from XPH

[Justin_F32]

How do these pulls look

3rd gear
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fc2...0b4321f6040501


4th gear
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fc2...0b432171b24932