[johnung]

Anyone have an experience with this throttle body spacer for the N55? The idea is that instead of a smooth entry into the intake manifold this serrated/helix perimeter creates a specific turbulence that provides an increase of 6hp/13tq along with claims of improved throttle response and fuel efficiency.

I can recall porting and polishing the throttle body and intake manifold on another car and achieving positive results so I didn't want to assume that this doesn't work.

Any thoughts on this part or any validity to this helix turbulence intake air theory? Not sure where it originated.

[jv004]

There's been countless threads on this particular item and the consensus is that it's pure snake oil. Waste of money.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by jv004

There's been countless threads on this particular item and the consensus is that it's pure snake oil. Waste of money.

Thanks for your response. I searched and didn't find decent info.

You seem to have a similar setup to mine. Have you tried N55 BM3 v7

[jv004]

Originally Posted by johnung

You seem to have a similar setup to mine. Have you tried N55 BM3 v7

Not yet, will get soon once I dial in suspension. Need to fix some minor issues

[anjuna]

If you want to pay me $323, I will call you every day and tell you that you have the fastest and most fuel efficient car around for a max of one month.

That will be more effective than this.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Don't waste your money. We got plenty of other modifications that will work for your vehicle.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by anjuna

If you want to pay me $323, I will call you every day and tell you that you have the fastest and most fuel efficient car around for a max of one month.

That will be more effective than this.

HaHa, my BMW and I share a very secure relationship. But would you mind calling my wife and kids daily to remind them how great I am?

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Don't waste your money. We got plenty of other modifications that will work for your vehicle.

Thanks! I am pretty well modded with an N55 on a stock turbo and 93 octane. I'm just always interested in various engine technologies.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by johnung

Anyone have an experience with this throttle body spacer for the N55? The idea is that instead of a smooth entry into the intake manifold this serrated/helix perimeter creates a specific turbulence that provides an increase of 6hp/13tq along with claims of improved throttle response and fuel efficiency.

I can recall porting and polishing the throttle body and intake manifold on another car and achieving positive results so I didn't want to assume that this doesn't work.

Any thoughts on this part or any validity to this helix turbulence intake air theory? Not sure where it originated.

So I actually did a bunch of searches on helix turbulence in combustion intakes and found quite a few peer reviewed types of scientific papers on the subject. Enough to make my head spin like in The Exorcist.

Ideally, fuel in tiny droplets would mix uniformly with intake air for the most efficient combustion. But in real life engines, when air and fuel are combined some of the fuel can wash down the walls and some fuel can be in the form of drops that are too large.

Introducing this helix shaped air turbulence just prior to air mixing with the fuel is supposed to provide better odds of having more ideally shaped fuel droplets which translates into more power and better efficiency.

So in theory this isn't baloney at all. What is uncertain is if this particular aFe throttle spacer product, when installed on a BMW N55 engine, would provide a measurable improvement. I've got the test car. Can someone please lend me their portable awd dyno for the weekend. I promise to give it back...eventually!

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by johnung

So I actually did a bunch of searches on helix turbulence in combustion intakes and found quite a few peer reviewed types of scientific papers on the subject. Enough to make my head spin like in The Exorcist.

Ideally, fuel in tiny droplets would mix uniformly with intake air for the most efficient combustion. But in real life engines, when air and fuel are combined some of the fuel can wash down the walls and some fuel can be in the form of drops that are too large.

Introducing this helix shaped air turbulence just prior to air mixing with the fuel is supposed to provide better odds of having more ideally shaped fuel droplets which translates into more power and better efficiency.

So in theory this isn't baloney at all. What is uncertain is if this particular aFe throttle spacer product, when installed on a BMW N55 engine, would provide a measurable improvement. I've got the test car. Can someone please lend me their portable awd dyno for the weekend. I promise to give it back...eventually!

Were these articles specifically for a direct injection engine? The turbulence and mixing argument seems most applicable for a PI engine.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Were these articles specifically for a direct injection engine? The turbulence and mixing argument seems most applicable for a PI engine.

Can't recall. I put aside trying to read that tiny scientific paper sized print on my phone. If I get some time I'll attempt to read more on my laptop. HaHa, I'd probably be all over it if it was promising a 50hp bump!

[anjuna]

Originally Posted by johnung

Can't recall. I put aside trying to read that tiny scientific paper sized print on my phone. If I get some time I'll attempt to read more on my laptop. HaHa, I'd probably be all over it if it was promising a 50hp bump!

One thing I ALWAYS like to remind myself is this...

If this was so good, why wouldn't car manufacturers do this already? After all, who wouldn't want to say that output is increased AND gas mileage is improved. Miles per gallon and smiles per gallon, you say????

If we look at it from a logical point of view, we have to consider cost, challenge of manufacturing, efficacy, and emissions.

cost - this is LOW cost for a manufacturer of a vehicle to pump out. More than likely cost ~$20 to make in terms of machine time, material, tooling, etc. after thousands are made.

challenge in mfg - this is easy.

efficacy - This is where the rubber meets the road. It's not effective. End of story. With valvetronic, there isn't a reason to create turbulence (especially with a throttle body spacer - it's so far away from the cylinder it's negligible). Additionally, other manufacturers did use tumble generating devices to get a better mix in the cylinder, but again, BMW does not need to do this. I can absolutely promise you that if there were anything needed to be done to help airflow/turbulence, BMW would have done it. I am an enthusiast like yourself, so I enjoy looking into things like this, but I also respect BMW engineering. You would basically have to go to a completely different type of manifold to see any changes. In fact, BMW considered airflow, pumping losses, and so much more when designing the concept for valvetronic.

emissions - this would likely have zero impact on emissions, but would be another (unnecessary) part to make, driving up manufacturer emissions.

My offer stands - and yes, I'll call your wife and tell her it was a brilliant investment.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by anjuna

One thing I ALWAYS like to remind myself is this...

If this was so good, why wouldn't car manufacturers do this already? After all, who wouldn't want to say that output is increased AND gas mileage is improved. Miles per gallon and smiles per gallon, you say????

If we look at it from a logical point of view, we have to consider cost, challenge of manufacturing, efficacy, and emissions.

cost - this is LOW cost for a manufacturer of a vehicle to pump out. More than likely cost ~$20 to make in terms of machine time, material, tooling, etc. after thousands are made.

challenge in mfg - this is easy.

efficacy - This is where the rubber meets the road. It's not effective. End of story. With valvetronic, there isn't a reason to create turbulence (especially with a throttle body spacer - it's so far away from the cylinder it's negligible). Additionally, other manufacturers did use tumble generating devices to get a better mix in the cylinder, but again, BMW does not need to do this. I can absolutely promise you that if there were anything needed to be done to help airflow/turbulence, BMW would have done it. I am an enthusiast like yourself, so I enjoy looking into things like this, but I also respect BMW engineering. You would basically have to go to a completely different type of manifold to see any changes. In fact, BMW considered airflow, pumping losses, and so much more when designing the concept for valvetronic.

emissions - this would likely have zero impact on emissions, but would be another (unnecessary) part to make, driving up manufacturer emissions.

My offer stands - and yes, I'll call your wife and tell her it was a brilliant investment.

You make all valid points. The torque curve of the N55 jumped out and grabbed me as the initial reason to consider BMW. I really respect the BMW engineering in all facets. Sliding into the driver's seat is like a personal cockpit.

But in my own career experiences working for a manufacturer, I know that the best engineered solution sometimes can fall way down on the priority list for so many reasons. Lots of variables along the way during the development process influence the final product that results.

So it doesn't hurt to keep an aftermarket eye out for a tweak here or there.

This BMW is the first car that I've modded since my single days. HaHa, I learned pretty quickly not to talk at home about the next mod that I was planning. That invariably leads to questions about cost. And well, as we all know, nothing bursts the bubble of a great mod like discussion with a spouse of how much it costs. That just leads to comments about how there's no food in the fridge, only beer, and how the kids are barefoot with winter coming. Luckily, a deep throaty aftermarket exhaust drowns out such talk.

So I've learned not to discuss mods at home. I just install them. Invariably my wife comes home from running errands with our shared daily driver with a big smile on her face and another story about someone who gave her (an imagined) dirty look at a red light light who she left in the dust in the rear view mirror when the light turned green.

After that there's never any question of cost. She does ask me what I just did to the car, and I always say that I just changed the oil. My how our BMWs enjoy their oil changes!

[johnung]

Originally Posted by pongkin

get it let's us know what you think

HaHa, I wish that I could! This virus has pushed that way down on the priority list. Be safe!

[ChristosD]

i am of the opinion this is a complete waste for direct injection but what about meth injection through the charge pipe would this not help evenly distribute the meth

[harkes]

I hear this one will add 100hp

[Olivamex]

Originally Posted by johnung

HaHa, I wish that I could! This virus has pushed that way down on the priority list. Be safe!

Originally Posted by johnung

HaHa, I wish that I could! This virus has pushed that way down on the priority list. Be safe!

Let us know your comments !!! I'm also curious about it. I see lots of people using it in other non Bmw engines mainly dodge & mustang.

Cheers!!!

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Olivamex

Let us know your comments !!! I'm also curious about it. I see lots of people using it in other non Bmw engines mainly dodge & mustang.

Cheers!!!

I dropped the idea. Too busy on other things.

[Orion4]

Originally Posted by harkes

I hear this one will add 100hp

Ah! Yes! The "infamous Vortex Generator"!! Remember seeing ads for these in different "flavors" in various Car mags over the years!

[Fuel-It!]

I heard they banned using these in professional racing because it's effectively like adding a second turbocharger to the vehicle.