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      12-23-2020, 11:59 PM   #1
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KermaTDI Stage 2 Dyno

I was fortunate enough to get some dyno time today and got some really good data on my 328d with KermaTDI Stage 2 tune!

Max dyno was 224whp/356wtq on a Mustang AWD dyno. When the car was stock, I dyno'd it on another Mustang AWD dyno and got 143whp/217wtq, so that's an increase of 81whp/139wtq.

Plots and video below:
KermaTDI Stage 2 Dyno


Stock Dyno


Dyno Video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Index
-0:00 Intro and test overviews
-1:27 Gary Bains Tuning / Speed Element intro
-1:50 Dyno run and results
-3:03 AWD vs RWD dyno results discussion
-4:42 KermaTDI Stage 2 dyno results discussion
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      12-24-2020, 01:24 AM   #2
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Awesome post!

I was actually eyeing this tune for my car and wondered what some real world numbers would be like. Looks like you answered my question.

That said, I got the BMW extended warranty, so I figure a tune might not be a good idea?
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      12-24-2020, 09:27 AM   #3
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Incredible results, FaRKle!! Thank you for posting this, it definitely cements my decision.
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      12-24-2020, 09:34 AM   #4
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Excellent video and testing!

I spy an M2C!
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      12-24-2020, 09:36 PM   #5
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Is drive train integrity a concern? Probably the obvious answer is yes .
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      12-24-2020, 11:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglesview View Post
Is drive train integrity a concern? Probably the obvious answer is yes .
What on the drivetrain are you worried about? The 328d shares a lot of drivetrain components with vehicles that have higher power outputs. For example the transfer case is also used on the 340ix and 335dx, front diff is used on the new G30 M550dx, rear diff is the same as 340ix, ect.
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      12-25-2020, 04:47 PM   #7
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FaRKle! - Thanks for posting these Dyno results. Seems like the stage 2 results have proved to be a great gain against stock. Tempting me to jump from Stage 1 > Stage 2 just to see how the differences feel.
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      01-06-2021, 05:11 PM   #8
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FaRKle! are you deleted by chance? What is your thoughts on DUDMD tunes? I have a DUDMD stage 1 on my 2016 328xd.
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      01-06-2021, 07:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thormus View Post
FaRKle! are you deleted by chance? What is your thoughts on DUDMD tunes? I have a DUDMD stage 1 on my 2016 328xd.
I haven't deleted any emissions systems on my vehicle. I have to get smog checked every other year in CA.

From what I've seen I think DUDMD's tunes are similar to JR's. Based upon how they advertise, and comments from those that have those tunes, the methods they use are benefitted by deleting emissions systems, and thus appear less refined than KermaTDI's to me.

In some other tuner cases, they also modify BMW stock safety limits either by spoofing a reading to never go above a certain level (even if it is), or applying the tune map to things like the limp mode map.
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      03-14-2021, 09:32 AM   #10
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I'm looking at going from stock to Stage two with the KermaTDI on my 328d. I noticed they send you a loaner computer? From stage one to stage two did you change anything with the tune or just the power increase?
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      03-14-2021, 03:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
I haven't deleted any emissions systems on my vehicle. I have to get smog checked every other year in CA.

From what I've seen I think DUDMD's tunes are similar to JR's. Based upon how they advertise, and comments from those that have those tunes, the methods they use are benefitted by deleting emissions systems, and thus appear less refined than KermaTDI's to me.

In some other tuner cases, they also modify BMW stock safety limits either by spoofing a reading to never go above a certain level (even if it is), or applying the tune map to things like the limp mode map.
FaRKle, those are indeed impressive numbers. I have the stage 1 tune so far and it looks like I might go for this as well. Me being in CA as well this seems like a good route to go to get extra torque without getting in trouble with emission systems.

Also just got the CV joint recall which is so funny because I had my mechanic in Morgan Hill perform the Loctite hack that was posted by another member here from the spline wearing out, possibly from the inferior CV design. So curious if BMW Monterey is going to give me a hard time about it. But once this is out of the way I am all for Stage 2 fun ;-)

BTW, I checked your video on youtube and in the prephase you mentioned that others had the opinion that in RWD it might help with fuel economy. Can you tell me how you can switch off the Xdrive on our Wagon's since my impression was it's always on? Is there an add-on that can disable FWD via the transfer case?
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Last edited by swissarmyknife; 03-14-2021 at 03:55 PM..
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      03-16-2021, 11:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collins_F31 View Post
I'm looking at going from stock to Stage two with the KermaTDI on my 328d. I noticed they send you a loaner computer? From stage one to stage two did you change anything with the tune or just the power increase?
There isn't much power increase between stage 1 and stage 2 (there's some slight modifications), it's mainly the transmission tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swissarmyknife View Post
Can you tell me how you can switch off the Xdrive on our Wagon's since my impression was it's always on? Is there an add-on that can disable FWD via the transfer case?
There are various methods, but the most popular is xDelete.

BTW the fuel economy change with RWD was absolutely none. Comparing my fill ups between RWD and AWD the averages were surprisingly the same to the 2nd decimal point. Since COVID changed my driving habits I only included data points post that, which was n=7 for AWD and n=14 for RWD.
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      03-19-2021, 08:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
There isn't much power increase between stage 1 and stage 2 (there's some slight modifications), it's mainly the transmission tune.


There are various methods, but the most popular is xDelete.

BTW the fuel economy change with RWD was absolutely none. Comparing my fill ups between RWD and AWD the averages were surprisingly the same to the 2nd decimal point. Since COVID changed my driving habits I only included data points post that, which was n=7 for AWD and n=14 for RWD.
The intent would be over-steer driving to have a little fun

So I see this is an app (andoid in my case). Can the full version of bimmercode achieve this as well? I have that already as I am making headlight mods with LED's so bought the full version to code out all the errors. Since our car is not compatible for the sport and winter mode anyway it would be nice if I didn't need to spend more on another app and just code it out if that even exists. Some other posts suggests in expert mode there is option 'all-rad deaktivieren' though in that thread nobody was brave enough to try - don't blame them.
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Last edited by swissarmyknife; 03-19-2021 at 08:28 AM..
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      03-19-2021, 10:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swissarmyknife View Post
The intent would be over-steer driving to have a little fun

So I see this is an app (andoid in my case). Can the full version of bimmercode achieve this as well? I have that already as I am making headlight mods with LED's so bought the full version to code out all the errors. Since our car is not compatible for the sport and winter mode anyway it would be nice if I didn't need to spend more on another app and just code it out if that even exists. Some other posts suggests in expert mode there is option 'all-rad deaktivieren' though in that thread nobody was brave enough to try - don't blame them.
Bimmercode can't disable the transfer case.
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      03-20-2021, 03:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Collins_F31 View Post
I'm looking at going from stock to Stage two with the KermaTDI on my 328d. I noticed they send you a loaner computer? From stage one to stage two did you change anything with the tune or just the power increase?
There isn't much power increase between stage 1 and stage 2 (there's some slight modifications), it's mainly the transmission tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swissarmyknife View Post
Can you tell me how you can switch off the Xdrive on our Wagon's since my impression was it's always on? Is there an add-on that can disable FWD via the transfer case?
There are various methods, but the most popular is xDelete.

BTW the fuel economy change with RWD was absolutely none. Comparing my fill ups between RWD and AWD the averages were surprisingly the same to the 2nd decimal point. Since COVID changed my driving habits I only included data points post that, which was n=7 for AWD and n=14 for RWD.
[QUOTE=FaRKle!;27354999]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Collins_F31 View Post
I'm looking at going from stock to Stage two with the KermaTDI on my 328d. I noticed they send you a loaner computer? From stage one to stage two did you change anything with the tune or just the power increase?
There isn't much power increase between stage 1 and stage 2 (there's some slight modifications), it's mainly the transmission tune.

The KermaTDI website claims 80whp and +140wtq for stage two.. that's almost double the power increase from stage 1.. is this just because of the transmission tune ?
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      03-20-2021, 08:15 PM   #16
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Correct, the transmission tune and the engine tune go together as one set for their stage 2
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      03-22-2021, 08:58 AM   #17
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Also, just a heads up. If you already have the stage 1 tune the guys at Kerma will let you upgrade to stage 2 at a differential cost, meaning not the full stage 2 price is charged. Just give them a call and they can look up your original order and work out the other details since they need to ship you a computer to do the transmission tune anyway.

I need to get my recall taken care off then I will upgrade to this tune as well.
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      04-05-2021, 10:37 PM   #18
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The data I am about to show here isn't completely verified but was a direct attempt to see how tuning the shift points can affect when the optimal gear changes occur after an engine tune from the change in torque characteristic.

Basically knowing the ZF 8HP gear ratios and the final drive ratio we can make some calculations using a dyno chart with stock and tuned values. Where my math is not going to be 100% is that I had to use intersect values and approximations from the graph in the thread and then interpolate more refined values to be able to apply the math.

The outcome is such that with the tune the shift points move down (-100 RPM in most cases) ever so slightly to carry on a little extra torque from one shift to the next.

This first graph is using the stock dyno numbers and show speed and torque tables below. Where torque numbers intersect at the highest point is the optimal shift point to the next gear with the least amount of torque loss.

The first column is the RPM, then the next 8 are each gear speed, then the second 8 are the correlating calculated wheel torque numbers (remember this is engine torque multiplied by the transmission gear ratios and the final drive ratio).

Name:  Stock shift.jpg
Views: 3887
Size:  393.6 KB

The second graph is based on the higher torque, in this example from the Kerma tune at the top of this thread.

Name:  Kerma shift.jpg
Views: 3966
Size:  390.2 KB

The idea behind this would be that if you got a Stage 1 tune from a tuner and then dyno'ed your car and got the calculated engine torque you could calculate backwards and determine if xHP could be used to refine shift points for better acceleration. This is all just theory and I am sure there are some holes in my theory but it was fun carrying through the math and see an actual change.
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Last edited by swissarmyknife; 04-05-2021 at 10:43 PM..
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      07-04-2021, 11:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swissarmyknife View Post
Also, just a heads up. If you already have the stage 1 tune the guys at Kerma will let you upgrade to stage 2 at a differential cost, meaning not the full stage 2 price is charged. Just give them a call and they can look up your original order and work out the other details since they need to ship you a computer to do the transmission tune anyway.

I need to get my recall taken care off then I will upgrade to this tune as well.
What do they charge for the upgrade to stage 2? Wondering if I should go for stage 1, then upgrade to save a few bucks…
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      07-18-2021, 05:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swissarmyknife View Post
Also, just a heads up. If you already have the stage 1 tune the guys at Kerma will let you upgrade to stage 2 at a differential cost, meaning not the full stage 2 price is charged. Just give them a call and they can look up your original order and work out the other details since they need to ship you a computer to do the transmission tune anyway.

I need to get my recall taken care off then I will upgrade to this tune as well.
Good to know. I’ve been tottering between going straight to s2 or going s1 first, this means there is no financial risk either way.
I drive in Manual mode and in town 98% of the time, except when on long highway vacation trips, so unsure if tinkering with the trans tuning is worth it.
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      07-18-2021, 08:23 PM   #21
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FaRKle! Any supporting engine mods other than the tune? Are you running the stock charge pipe?
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      07-18-2021, 08:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshooter View Post
What do they charge for the upgrade to stage 2? Wondering if I should go for stage 1, then upgrade to save a few bucks…
It's more expensive to get stage 1 and then upgrade to stage 2. Stage 2 = $1250. Stage 1 -> stage 2 = $1450.
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