04-20-2021, 12:55 AM | #1 |
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335d N57Z - close to no boost until restart
Hello guys,
this is not my car, we have it at our workshop and I end up being a bit clueless. The car went in with a customer complaint that the car does not have a full power. At the same time the customer needed to do a timing chain etc. There were no fault codes except for swirl flaps kinematics. I called the customer and was told these were removed as the intake was cleaned in a different workshop. The problem with power was there even before. We did a test drive with looking at the boost pressure and once there was a setpoint of 2,8 bar, the car would build up 1,3-1,5 bars at its maximum. Then we ran the test of all the vacuum converters and valves and the control unit is able to run them, there are no vacuum leaks. The only noticed difference against what ISTA+ is telling was that when a full vaccum was given to the turbine control flap, it moved slower than ISTA expected (25mm in 1 second) - reality was 25mm in 3 seconds. Tried to replace the vacuum converter for this one with a new part, made no difference. The electric actuator on the turbocharger works just fine, too. We borrowed 3 different used dual stage turbochargers and 1 new from the BMW dealership, put the vacuum lines from the car to these and their behavior was absolutely the same. Then the engine was removed from the car, we did the timing job and once we had the engine on the stand, we removed the turbocharger and did an overall check. There is no play, no oil leaks. The only issue found was that one of the nuts on the rod of the turbine control flap. We removed the vacuum control unit and readjusted it according to the TIS. After the assembly everything was like before. Then I decided to update the software in the car. Original i-level: F020-14-07-502 New i-level: F020-20-11-557 Right after the update we noticed a difference. First thing to see was that the car started to complain about its DPF being clogged. The values were on the edge of permissible range. Then I started the regeneration of the DPF which took 27 minutes. The DPF is according to the backpressure sensor as clean as new. After this job I noticed that when I shut the engine off and restart it, the engine is back to full power. I did some testing then again and no values in the live data would help me to identify where the problem on the first start is. It does not matter if the engine is cold or hot. If I start it, shut it off and restart, there is absolutely smooth, full power. I found several topics in this forum with the same issue but there never was a post stating where the problem was. I will be happy if anyone could give me some advice. |
04-20-2021, 08:56 AM | #2 |
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Martin! It's nice to see you around here too!
(I am 328 Power 04 from bimmerforums) I'll look into some documentation regarding this, and hopefully something will show up. Besides the swirl flaps being removed, are there any other modifications? |
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04-20-2021, 09:04 AM | #3 |
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Hi Enabled, no other modifications. The engine was out of the car, so we inspected it really well and there are no power boxes, no pedal power boxes etc. The car does not complain about anything else than the swirl flaps which are not present and I have this confirmed from my very good friend from the dealership, that this fault does not have any noticeable effect on the performance.
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04-20-2021, 09:54 AM | #4 |
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I still wonder if the swirl flaps aren't causing a limp mode error in the dde. If you connect the actuator, do things change any?
Do you have any ecu flashing tools there?
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-2014 328d Wagon, 8HP. Self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs.
-2019 M2 Competition MT, Alpine White. Self-tuned 560hp -2016 Mini Cooper S, MT. Many plans. Others: -E36 328is. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual. Estoril Z3M Coupe. |
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04-21-2021, 04:15 AM | #5 |
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Hi again, your second post made me thinking before pulling the EDC17CP45 and reading with ktag. So I went to see the engine bay again and bam, the actuator for the swirl flaps was connected. So I removed the connector and the car was having full boost on first start. I am now having the car shut off and after 2 hours I will test it again. I will definitely post the result.
I have no idea who plugged the connector back in. Anyway, all the swirl flap removal blinds installation manuals says "make sure every connector is in its place" so this might be a bit confusing. |
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04-21-2021, 08:12 AM | #6 |
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Interesting findings. At least it's getting somewhere.
I would think with it unplugged, now it will eventually throw dtc and another version of limp mode later? If you get a ktag read (hopefully without having to drill that DDE!) let me know. There may be some things that can be done from the tune. If you would have to drill, contact me anyways, as I have ways to flash that DDE remotely over ENET.
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-2014 328d Wagon, 8HP. Self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs.
-2019 M2 Competition MT, Alpine White. Self-tuned 560hp -2016 Mini Cooper S, MT. Many plans. Others: -E36 328is. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual. Estoril Z3M Coupe. |
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04-21-2021, 12:12 PM | #9 |
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I am unhappy about seeing them removed even on M57. We measured the time of DPF regeneration and the difference was close to a double with swirl flaps removed against an intake with rebuilt flaps.
I understand the reason for removal but these repeated measurements convince me about their purpouse quite strongly. I rebuild them rather than remove |
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01-13-2023, 02:29 AM | #10 |
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Hi all,
My 2018 F30 335dx spun a bearing at 157k miles and I have had the engine fully rebuilt by a specialist. The guys removed the swirlflaps as part of the build. I now have the exact issue you describe. The car is also driving OK once the second start is performed, I致e finally got a dash light and some fault codes so I got them read. The VTG transfer case needs an overhaul (which I knew about) and the (original) DPF has been unhappy for a while now. I知 going to get the VTG & DPF sorted out and ask the people who mapped the car (DMS) to code the swirl flaps out. I知 hoping that値l take care of all the permanent fault codes. We値l see if this fixes the issue, if not then I知 a bit confused about what to do next. I am reluctant to put the flaps back in. If the flaps have been coded out then can I unplug the actuator? EDIT: Please open the photos as the preview cuts off the swirl flap fault! |
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01-13-2023, 12:56 PM | #11 |
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Update:
I took a brave pill and unplugged the actuator. Problem solved!? Obviously I still have the warning light on and I can稚 read the fault codes myself. I値l press on with the DPF and VTG, have the swirlflaps coded out, plug the actuator back in and see if the problem comes back (hopefully not!) |
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