[HKD126]

Originally Posted by F32/435i

Installed my new revision street core 2 days ago....Quality was impeccable, and fitment was perfect. IAT's with 93 degree Ambient actually drop to around 88 degrees during my pulls. MHD stage 2+

How is that possible on an air to air heat exchanger? Meth injection? This is highly suspect.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by HKD126

How is that possible on an air to air heat exchanger? Meth injection? This is highly suspect.

He may have mis-worded the statement, I think he meant the log started at 93 degrees and it dropped to 88 degrees which isn't uncommon with our denser fin packs

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by m2ruder

Guys i will be installing one soon and doing a whole battery of 3rd/4th/5th independent & 3/4/5 shift pulls to test its efficiency. I will post the results. Mind you we are in the 90's here already so it will be plenty of work

Will be looking forward to this!

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

He may have mis-worded the statement, I think he meant the log started at 93 degrees and it dropped to 88 degrees which isn't uncommon with our denser fin packs

Hopefully he will come back and re-clarify his comment.But sure am looking for some tests to back the claims,that is what convinced me to buy my fmic after laboring over a decision at the time for weeks!

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

Hopefully he will come back and re-clarify his comment.But sure am looking for some tests to back the claims,that is what convinced me to buy my fmic after laboring over a decision at the time for weeks!

It's true that an intercooler's exchange temperature is physically limited to the ambient temperature as previously stated but you can't go wrong with the denser fin pack that's now standard on our street cores.

All marketing aside, a dense fin pack will offer a greater overall surface area for heat dissipation. While CFD backed cast end tanks are a huge plus, a denser fin pack is what separates good intercoolers from great intercoolers.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

It's true that an intercooler's exchange temperature is physically limited to the ambient temperature as previously stated but you can't go wrong with the denser fin pack that's now standard on our street cores.

All marketing aside, a dense fin pack will offer a greater overall surface area for heat dissipation. While CFD backed cast end tanks are a huge plus, a denser fin pack is what separates good intercoolers from great intercoolers.

Check my post above

A denser fin/core pack can also affect flow. So there has to be a balance plus a denser core pack will also make the turbo work harder. Again balance is the key. End tanks are important as well. A denser fin back is not always always the best in every situation. Cmon. Wagner has both styles bar and plate (denser fin pack) and tube and fin (less dense)and demonstrate this.

Will add at idle which your client claims an ambient of 90 degrees, he is off because the air at idle will have a higher temp than 90 degrees which is shown in the chart.well 85 degrees and at no point will go below that.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

A denser fin/core pack can also affect flow. So there has to be a balance plus a denser core pack will also make the turbo work harder. Again balance is the key. End tanks are important as well. A denser fin back is not always always the best in every situation. Cmon. Wagner has both styles bar and plate (denser fin pack) and tube and fin (less dense)and demonstrate this.

I personally prefer to test an intercooler on the street since it's impossible to reproduce the same driving dynamic on a dyno. We normally use the more standard method of either a single gear pull in third or fourth gear or a multiple gear pull from 2-5 gear on the road. Please keep in mind that we also only publish third party non-incentive customer logs for all of our intercoolers since the obvious bias is a conflict of interest.

I completely agree that a balance of flow and density is critical with a good intercooler. Without a proper balance you will absolutely create unnecessary restriction which is why we do extensive testing on each intercooler we design with multiple fin pack configurations in order to maximize cooling without sacrificing flow. We've been in the intercooler business for over 15 years. We make it a point to survey the competition before releasing a product in order to ensure we're offering equal or better quality products at a reasonable price range without the BMW tax.

Wagner makes phenomenal intercoolers, they're generally the brand we recommend when our intercoolers aren't in stock but I can tell you with confidence that our upcoming F30 intercooler will outperform any and every intercooler currently available in it's size and price range and our existing street core will match the performance of your Wagner Evo 2 @ half the price.

Our development process has proven itself multiple times with multiple record breaking builds including Motiv's 1000whp N54 335i that's running our 7.5" Race HD core. We also have literally hundreds of independent reviews (with back links to the forums where they originated) on our website if you're interested

[JaredG_F30]

This makes more sense. It's typical to see IATs drop as speeds increases due to an increase in convective heat transfer. He should post a log.

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

He may have mis-worded the statement, I think he meant the log started at 93 degrees and it dropped to 88 degrees which isn't uncommon with our denser fin packs

[JaredG_F30]

You guys make great stuff no doubt!! Keep it coming!

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

I personally prefer to test an intercooler on the street since it's impossible to reproduce the same driving dynamic on a dyno. We normally use the more standard method of either a single gear pull in third or fourth gear or a multiple gear pull from 2-5 gear on the road. Please keep in mind that we also only publish third party non-incentive customer logs for all of our intercoolers since the obvious bias is a conflict of interest.

I completely agree that a balance of flow and density is critical with a good intercooler. Without a proper balance you will absolutely create unnecessary restriction which is why we do extensive testing on each intercooler we design with multiple fin pack configurations in order to maximize cooling without sacrificing flow. We've been in the intercooler business for over 15 years. We make it a point to survey the competition before releasing a product in order to ensure we're offering equal or better quality products at a reasonable price range without the BMW tax.

Wagner makes phenomenal intercoolers, they're generally the brand we recommend when our intercoolers aren't in stock but I can tell you with confidence that our upcoming F30 intercooler will outperform any and every intercooler currently available in it's size and price range and our existing street core will match the performance of your Wagner Evo 2 @ half the price.

Our development process has proven itself multiple times with multiple record breaking builds including Motiv's 1000whp N54 335i that's running our 7.5" Race HD core. We also have literally hundreds of independent reviews (with back links to the forums where they originated) on our website if you're interested

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

I personally prefer to test an intercooler on the street since it's impossible to reproduce the same driving dynamic on a dyno. We normally use the more standard method of either a single gear pull in third or fourth gear or a multiple gear pull from 2-5 gear on the road. Please keep in mind that we also only publish third party non-incentive customer logs for all of our intercoolers since the obvious bias is a conflict of interest.

I completely agree that a balance of flow and density is critical with a good intercooler. Without a proper balance you will absolutely create unnecessary restriction which is why we do extensive testing on each intercooler we design with multiple fin pack configurations in order to maximize cooling without sacrificing flow. We've been in the intercooler business for over 15 years. We make it a point to survey the competition before releasing a product in order to ensure we're offering equal or better quality products at a reasonable price range without the BMW tax.

Wagner makes phenomenal intercoolers, they're generally the brand we recommend when our intercoolers aren't in stock but I can tell you with confidence that our upcoming F30 intercooler will outperform any and every intercooler currently available in it's size and price range and our existing street core will match the performance of your Wagner Evo 2 @ half the price.

Our development process has proven itself multiple times with multiple record breaking builds including Motiv's 1000whp N54 335i that's running our 7.5" Race HD core. We also have literally hundreds of independent reviews (with back links to the forums where they originated) on our website if you're interested

Post the links. Best FMIC test I have seen was done by Dave Buschur where Garrett and ETS came on top. VRSF was part of that test won't comment.
So based on your claims let's get some data.Bold claims but if true then you have something there. I have seen PTE step up with their turbos(BB gen 1 and 2 from the horrible JB setup they have)so maybe this is the case here.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

Post the links. Best FMIC test I have seen was done by Dave Buschur where Garrett and ETS came on top. VRSF was part of that test won't comment.
So based on your claims let's get some data.Bold claims but if true then you have something there. I have seen PTE step up with their turbos(BB gen 1 and 2 from the horrible JB setup they have)so maybe this is the case here.

That test was about 10 years ago and we weren't part of it. Our existing fin pack technology was also nowhere near as advanced as it is now. Surprisingly enough the person who was running the test's intercooler ended up being the best which is why I said to take shop run tests with a grain of salt. Also keep in mind Garret came out on top and they have the densest fin pack available.

You can jump on our FB page if you're looking for relevant links to our claims, it's all posted publicly.

[quick_335i]

Tiago@VRSF

Can you elaborate more on the new intercooler sizes?

Right now you have a:
5" Street
5" street HD (which will be the same as the street now?)
6" Race which HD comes standard

When will these be available for purchase and any idea on rough pricing?

[Tiago@VRSF]

The only addition to the lineup is our new intercooler to bridge the gap in size between the street intercooler and the race.

Volume and pricing will be released once these are closer to production!

[F32/435i]

https://datazap.me/u/nikococchi/new-...45&mark=26

Sorry guys....My car said 93 so it could have been 90 or 88....IAT Idle temp was 90 and dropped to 88 once into boost

This was around 70% throttle

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by F32/435i

https://datazap.me/u/nikococchi/new-...45&mark=26

Sorry guys....My car said 93 so it could have been 90 or 88....IAT Idle temp was 90 and dropped to 88 once into boost

This was around 70% throttle

Thanks for the logs! We greatly appreciate when customers take the time to post unbiased data.

Looks we start out @ 90 degrees and after running through the 4 gears it dips down to 84 degrees. We can assume it was at least 84 degrees outside (most likely less) and judging by the weather in Henderson on the day the log was posted the average temp was about 81 degrees which falls in line with the log's information.

[alex_j_5]

I have a 5" HD intercooler and BM3 stage 2 tune. My IAT's started at around 103 deg F and dropped to 93 deg f for the duration of my 3rd and 4th pull. I did a few pulls that day when i was playing around with logging and the IAT's were repeatable. Im just getting into cars so dont have to much to comment but i have had no issues with my FMIC and it seems to do a good job for IAT's with the stage 2 tune.

RPM starts at 2000 and 6700
Mph starts at 25 ends at 90

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by alex_j_5

I have a 5" HD intercooler and BM3 stage 2 tune. My IAT's started at around 103 deg F and dropped to 93 deg f for the duration of my 3rd and 4th pull. I did a few pulls that day when i was playing around with logging and the IAT's were repeatable. Im just getting into cars so dont have to much to comment but i have had no issues with my FMIC and it seems to do a good job for IAT's with the stage 2 tune.

RPM starts at 2000 and 6700
Mph starts at 25 ends at 90

Attachment 1831010

Thank you very much for your contribution Alex, I'm glad you're enjoying the latest revision

[Anthony235]

Keep in mind that I'm sure the ambient reading people are using is cars in dash display. Usually that is higher than true ambient. The delta in the actual IAT logs is what's important.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

Keep in mind that I'm sure the ambient reading people are using is cars in dash display. Usually that is higher than true ambient. The delta in the actual IAT logs is what's important.

I completely agree.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

Wagner makes phenomenal intercoolers, they're generally the brand we recommend when our intercoolers aren't in stock but I can tell you with confidence that our upcoming F30 intercooler will outperform any and every intercooler currently available in it's size and price range and our existing street core will match the performance of your Wagner Evo 2 @ half the price.

Our development process has proven itself multiple times with multiple record breaking builds including Motiv's 1000whp N54 335i that's running our 7.5" Race HD core. We also have literally hundreds of independent reviews (with back links to the forums where they originated) on our website if you're interested

A 1000 whp drag car is nice but not what interests me! Those were my DSM/Evo days.Most bar and plates will do well in that case.

When will the proof data and testing come out on a road race or auto cross car,that’s what I am interested in seeing. Also which Wagner Evo fmic are you comparing your new street fmic that will match for half the price? Evo perf1 Evo perf 2 ,Evo Comp 1 Evo Comp 2?

I’m not saying that the new design is not an improvement over the old but it would be good if you can show test results on a track car , in particular a road race car to show us why your fmic is better than most on the market other than price of the street versions being cheaper than most. Your race intercoolers are in the area of the same price I paid for my Wagner so the half price you mentioned definitely pertains to your street version. You need to be specific before making that claim! I have seen intense testing of the Wagner product which have been excellent where the reviews are concerned with road racing.

Wagner put on a good test with Peters M2 (DarkiedM4))over there in Europe. Definitely helped convince me in my fmic purchase.
I say offer to send Peter your fmic for testing and let’s see what it does. He has tested ATM,CSF,Evo 1 perf,Evo 2 Comp.
I think that would be a good test to clear up any claims of the new products capabilities. If it proves itself in that case I would say you have something that will also do very well.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

A 1000 whp drag car is nice but not what interests me! Those were my DSM/Evo days.Most bar and plates will do well in that case.

When will the proof data and testing come out on a road race or auto cross car,that's what I am interested in seeing. Also which Wagner Evo fmic are you comparing your new street fmic that will match for half the price? Evo perf1 Evo perf 2 ,Evo Comp 1 Evo Comp 2?

I'm not saying that the new design is not an improvement over the old but it would be good if you can show test results on a track car , in particular a road race car to show us why your fmic is better than most on the market other than price of the street versions being cheaper than most. Your race intercoolers are in the area of the same price I paid for my Wagner so the half price you mentioned definitely pertains to your street version. You need to be specific before making that claim! I have seen intense testing of the Wagner product which have been excellent where the reviews are concerned with road racing.

Wagner put on a good test with Peters M2 (DarkiedM4))over there in Europe. Definitely helped convince me in my fmic purchase.
I say offer to send Peter your fmic for testing and let's see what it does. He has tested ATM,CSF,Evo 1 perf,Evo 2 Comp.
I think that would be a good test to clear up any claims of the new products capabilities. If it proves itself in that case I would say you have something that will also do very well.

I'm not even sure what your argument is. I run their original street IC. IATs go down at the beginning of the run and then start to climb up. Their bigger and new ICs perform much better.

Plenty of customer logs on the various forums show this.

I've also ran the car competitively on road courses with the IC with success when I first bought it. Even tho I don't track it anymore I plan on upgrading to the race IC sometime this year.

Your Wagner is a great IC. Go enjoy it. You don't need to keep trying to justify it to yourself.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

Your Wagner is a great IC. Go enjoy it. You don't need to keep trying to justify it to yourself.

Simply not the case! Wagner is proven on a road course hence why I bought it.
Vendor claims that he has a better product than most at half the price which is great but lets see the data.

If so then its a product that will do well for the price in comparison to the more expensive offerings with the data to back it up. Hopefully the quality will be there too.