[es]

Hey everyone,

So I had this issue when you try to check oil level via iDrive and it goes like up to 17% and cuts off. So I went to a highly recommended garage (pmwltd in Chemsford) and they weren't able to fix it, they kept my car for a few days and after numerous things came up empty.

They checked the actual capacity of oil which was fine. (Sometimes if there is too much oil it can trick the sensor)

They changed the oil sensor. (Which made no difference)

They updated the engines firmware to the latest one. (Which made no difference)

So, they call me and said that the best option is to just leave it, because if there is no point for paying even more without really knowing if it will get fixed. I am so confused right now, can it be that it is so hard to fix? Has anyone ever experienced anything like this?

They said the next step would be checking the wiring, but there is like small chance that it is in fact the wiring. I really want to get it fixed, and it seems that even when I am willing to pay for it there is no one who could do it?

Many thanks in advance guys.

[stu14t]

Probably the best advice.

I know my diesel has a "manual" dipstick at the back of the engine bay but I'm don't know about petrol variants.

My two F30's have never needed topping up between services.

[es]

Originally Posted by stu14t

Probably the best advice.

I know my diesel has a "manual" dipstick at the back of the engine bay but I'm don't know about petrol variants.

My two F30's have never needed topping up between services.

I understand that. But my point is, that this seems impossible to fix and that's what really annoys me

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by es

I understand that. But my point is, that this seems impossible to fix and that's what really annoys me

When you say it "seems impossible to fix", I assume you mean outside the BMW dealerships. Suppose it depends how much money you are prepared to throw at it, if you haven't got an extended warranty.

[bimmer456]

I had mine doing that for a little while but it eventually worked again so not sure what gives. It does seem odd that the engine has to be running to check the oil level. If it's low this would be dangerous as well as not knowing when it doesn't work. Not sure if it will be able to detect on its own that the oil is low and give a warning.

[es]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

When you say it "seems impossible to fix", I assume you mean outside the BMW dealerships. Suppose it depends how much money you are prepared to throw at it, if you haven't got an extended warranty.

I don't. Well I contacted BMW dealership as well (Sytner I believe) and they were kind of clueless about this as well.

And the pmvltd the garage who did the repairs, they told me they updated the software, new sensor, did a reset on a battery, checked the wires and still the same. As soon as it comes up to 17% it cuts off (sometimes 40% sometimes 20%).

Today when I picked my car they told me that they have no idea whats causing it since they checked everything related to it and everything checks out, that's what bothers me, that I spend 400 quid (diagnostics +parts/labour + travel/gas money) and I still have no idea what is wrong with it, it's not the repairs it's the diagnostics and being clueless what bothers me. I don't mind paying for something to get fixed, but I can't just pay for random things. That's what I am basically looking here in this thread if anyone experienced something like this and how did they fixed it and where, or any suggestions who may fix this and would have any idea what is causing it rather than doing random diagnostics and charging me for it.

Also they told me they contacted the dealer and they were no help as well, not sure about this one, but that's what freaks me out.

[stu14t]

Originally Posted by es

I don't. Well I contacted BMW dealership as well (Sytner I believe) and they were kind of clueless about this as well.

And the pmvltd the garage who did the repairs, they told me they updated the software, new sensor, did a reset on a battery, checked the wires and still the same. As soon as it comes up to 17% it cuts off (sometimes 40% sometimes 20%).

Today when I picked my car they told me that they have no idea whats causing it since they checked everything related to it and everything checks out, that's what bothers me, that I spend 400 quid (diagnostics +parts/labour + travel/gas money) and I still have no idea what is wrong with it, it's not the repairs it's the diagnostics and being clueless what bothers me. I don't mind paying for something to get fixed, but I can't just pay for random things. That's what I am basically looking here in this thread if anyone experienced something like this and how did they fixed it and where, or any suggestions who may fix this and would have any idea what is causing it rather than doing random diagnostics and charging me for it.

Also they told me they contacted the dealer and they were no help as well, not sure about this one, but that's what freaks me out.

To be fair this sounds like a rare anomaly and not something common on these forums before. However,it doesn't mean that someone may be able to help.

But as HighlandPete said if you are that bothered you may have to throw loads of money at it. A good independent may be good but have nowhere near the pool of knowledge that BMW will have. I suspect the indie will use ISTA the same as BMW, the standard diagnostic software even for a dealer. The advantage a dealer will have is access to the PuMA diagnostics database. Are you suggesting that if they don't find a fault then any work should be free?

It probably can be fixed but it's obviously not going to be easy and you may have to rely on a sympathetic main dealer taking the time to look into it. You then you have to factor in labour similar to a solicitors hourly rate and then it becomes an economy of scales for a part that may only cost tens of pounds.

[es]

Originally Posted by stu14t

To be fair this sounds like a rare anomaly and not something common on these forums before. However,it doesn't mean that someone may be able to help.

But as HighlandPete said if you are that bothered you may have to throw loads of money at it. A good independent may be good but have nowhere near the pool of knowledge that BMW will have. I suspect the indie will use ISTA the same as BMW, the standard diagnostic software even for a dealer. The advantage a dealer will have is access to the PuMA diagnostics database. Are you suggesting that if they don't find a fault then any work should be free?

It probably can be fixed but it's obviously not going to be easy and you may have to rely on a sympathetic main dealer taking the time to look into it. You then you have to factor in labour similar to a solicitors hourly rate and then it becomes an economy of scales for a part that may only cost tens of pounds.

No, I am not suggesting that, quite the opposite actually, as I said I don't mind paying, I gladly paid the shop now, what I meant was I don't want to do the same, get diagnostics and possible solutions and yet again come empty handed, that's why I came to these forums for help, to find a solution or fond someone who has one. Im so sorry if I wasn't clear before, not sure if I make any sense now, but I hope you get the idea.

And regarding the problem you're absolutely right, I have found only 1 post on bimmer posts with same issue and zero replies, no idea how it worked out, besides this there is pretty much nothing even relatively close to this issue. I may be one of fhe first ones to experience this, but not the last one.

Also, I wonder what else can cause this if everything was checked and some parts even replaced. I found it very interesting that when I picked up the keys the guys at the shop said it's a mystery, because everything checks out. I am super curious to find out what is causing it.

I am sorry if I sound rude or something, I disnt mean to. I just love the car so much and this kills me a lot. Many thanks

[stu14t]

Originally Posted by es

I am sorry if I sound rude or something, I disnt mean to. I just love the car so much and this kills me a lot. Many thanks

You don't sound rude at all. I think a number of people on this forum have also had niggling issues that don't get sorted and remain a mystery.

Hope you get it fixed.

[HighlandPete]

This sort of problem is always a difficult shout. Do we try the independent route, or go straight to a BMW dealer? Sometimes we make the wrong call and have to pay twice, then put it down to experience.

When you say BMW doesn't know what the problem is, is that from BMW, or the contacted dealer, who could be playing things close to the chest?

BTW, does the temperature sensor part work? Can you see the oil temperature via diagnostics and/or the hidden menu?

[Sasquartch]

I take it you are not the original owner ??

Has it ever worked ? There is a possibility that something has been messed around with or not original in some way.

My guess it isn't just the tools, eg ISTA, but how the results are diagnosed and interpreted.

I have no idea what the fault is but looking at it from an engineering viewpoint it is a simple system and in use in probably millions of cars so it must be diagnosable.

I guess it will be either the part of the software that does the measuring, the bit that takes a couple of minutes to complete or alternatively the signal from the sensor is wrong in some way

Have you got access to ISTA ??

My suggestion would be to get that setup on a laptop and start checking everything is correct from a fault code perspective, then reading live data where possible

You might want to check the software really is correct, @shawnsheridan is the expert in the area of coding and electronics

Sorry I can only give generalised suggestions but it is a proven system and can definitely be made to work - something (or more than one thing) is either wrong, wrongly connected, faulty or misconfigured

[es]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

This sort of problem is always a difficult shout. Do we try the independent route, or go straight to a BMW dealer? Sometimes we make the wrong call and have to pay twice, then put it down to experience.

When you say BMW doesn't know what the problem is, is that from BMW, or the contacted dealer, who could be playing things close to the chest?

BTW, does the temperature sensor part work? Can you see the oil temperature via diagnostics and/or the hidden menu?

I am not doing diagnostics myself so I have no idea, how do I check via hidden menu, are you talking about the one who you access via trip button? Also, what I meant regarding BMW I took the car for "vehicle check" and they told me that there is no fault codes, and that first step is to take all the oil out and measure if it's the right amount, they said that too much amount may trick the sensor, they said there is not much to go on and that's the first step. And this is exactly what I did next, I took it to BMW independent they checked the oil capacity (took it out and in again) it check out, then they did a reset on a battery, still no change, then they changed the sensor, still problem is present and then they updated the software which did not help either as far as I know this is what's been done.

Sasquartch I am not and I've had this car for roughly 2 months, and since I have it it did not work, it is partially my fault, because I am stupid and I did not check that beforehand, well I guess you live and learn.

First of all, thank you for taking time and replying to me, also I believe there is no fault codes or anything that's been confirmed by original BMW dealership and by an Independent as well, I mean, they even changed the sensor and they told me that the wiring is all good as well, so where do we go from here? What else is there to check.

And I do understand that there are millions of cars and owners and it should be diagnosable, but I have not found any single piece of information about this issue on the internet apart from this: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=930475 which is exactly the same problem I am having. And also, when independent tells you that it is mystery and they have never came across something like this doesn't make it very pleasant.

I've filmed it today, so it should make it clear what seems to be problem, as you can see from even the video it cuts it off at the random numbers (most frequent one is 17%, next try it was like 30%)

I am not sure if vimeo is appropriate, but I hope it is. Let me know if you can't see the video. Many thanks.

[Sasquartch]

I've looked at the video and agree it is a very strange fault

I wonder if the car thinks for some reason that the car is not level, or not warm or not at the correct idle speed ?? ie not meeting the criteria for accurate measurement.

When you start the test does the idle speed increase a little ? On my 328i the engine speed increases noticeably, perhaps to 1000rpm

Whilst I cant offer any specific help I think getting diagnostics to measure the above criteria might be a way forward.

A lot of BMW specialists may well be just that, but may be experienced in BMWs from a less computerised time, the F30 is only 5-6 years old and I'd guess that whilst a BMW dealer will either have a tech specialising in electronics (and be factory trained) or have access to someone at head office, a indy wont

I'm thinking it might be time to have a chat with a dealer. If you're anywhere near Stevenage, Specialist Cars are very good especially if you pop in during the middle of the day when its not busy

Sorry I cannot be more help but good luck with a resolution

[Sasquartch]

Look at this

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1224785

Post #37

Seems coincidental the poster mentions 17% as the point it fails

It might be a different model to yours but I bet the electronics share a lot of commonality

[stu14t]

Something worth trying that will cost a few quid but not hundreds. Try doing an oil / filter change and flush the system out. Maybe the last owner / garage put the wrong oil in the car. Mineral instead of synthetic or wrong grade. I know it sounds unlikely but it may be worth a try and it won't do any harm or cost that much.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by Sasquartch

Look at this

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1224785

Post #37

Seems coincidental the poster mentions 17% as the point it fails

It might be a different model to yours but I bet the electronics share a lot of commonality

Yes sounds like the oil pressure regulating valve needs changing. Good find!

[es]

Originally Posted by Sasquartch

Look at this

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1224785

Post #37

Seems coincidental the poster mentions 17% as the point it fails

It might be a different model to yours but I bet the electronics share a lot of commonality

This seems to be into right direction! However, I wonder whats the best approach in regards fixing it? Do I contact genuine BMW dealership and pay them to fix it or I go with indy again? Because I don't have any warranties nor I bought the car from them, I believe it is like 180 quid an hour in there, so it is kind of harsh.

Sasquartch I believe there is hope now, however while I may be happy for this found I tried to look up the part number and I couldn't find it for my car as I have entry-level 316i, I found that it fits 320i and 328i, but not 316i? Or am I wrong?

Sasquartch Hooded Many thanks for helping me out on this.

I'll try to call either BMW or indy on Monday and see what they will say about this and will update this thread in any case, for people who will have this issue in a future.

I really hope this is the issue, also wonder if this valve is hard to hard/expensive to change.

[Sasquartch]

You can crosscheck part numbers at realoem.com

Hopefully that will confirm whether it's the same part

However, got to be worth a quick with your indy to see what they think. I have no idea what the labour would be to replace the part, however there might be some specific tests they can do that might confirm this theory

[HighlandPete]

Not at all surprised the issue could be in the oil regulation side of things.

Whether it is the same with the 316i (N13 ?) as the N20 with map controlled oil control, difficult to know. Both have similar control valves.

The same kind of oil check strategy could be employed in ascertaining oil levels. One reading from a sensor/component outside the working parameters and the check stalls.

Are you sure there is no fault code with BMW level diagnostics?

[HighlandPete]

N13, solenoid valve, Part 1 in the head and Part 2 on the pump ? There are several part numbers, need to define car's age/production.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_4995

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5008

There appears to be two valves in the N13 engine.

[dreamspeed]

Unfortunately modern BMWs have so many friggin electronics.... sensors on top of sensors. It's not uncommon to have random mystery faults that are a bitch and a half to diagnose.

If you are set on fixing this it might require a lot of additional time and money. If you can live with it just make sure that there is no mechanical fault here that can damage your car.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

Unfortunately modern BMWs have so many friggin electronics.... sensors on top of sensors. It's not uncommon to have random mystery faults that are a bitch and a half to diagnose.

If you are set on fixing this it might require a lot of additional time and money. If you can live with it just make sure that there is no mechanical fault here that can damage your car.

Agree..

It also comes down to how long the OP intends to keep the car I guess too. If I were going to change the car in a couple of years I probably wouldn't worry too much about getting it fixed if it was going to be hard to find the cause, and just have the oil changed more regularly if it has no dipstick (say every 6k miles) instead. If I were intending to keep the car another 5 years I might be more inclined to spend a little looking for the cause of the fault.