[anielsen71]

Hi ppl

Anyone know how active an Active M suspension is?

Does it use input from sensors to tighten up suspension on the fly?
Or is it just possible to choose between comfort and sport firmness?

I have it in my car and think its the last of the 2 options.
Just wondered since I will prob change it to a KW suspension in the next few months. And if it actually is active, I might consider changing the dampers to a new set og OEM's

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by anielsen71

Hi ppl

Anyone know how active an Active M suspension is?

Does it use input from sensors to tighten up suspension on the fly?
Or is it just possible to choose between comfort and sport firmness?

Active on the fly, 100%.

[anielsen71]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Active on the fly, 100%.

Sure?
I've been on some trackdays and have never felt the firmenss really change unless I used the switch.
Might be mine is just almost dead, has almost done 200.000km now.
Thats why im considering the options. One is to replace with OEM dampers since I have ACS springs.
Another option could be a KW DDC suspension. But that is not active.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by anielsen71

Sure?
I've been on some trackdays and have never felt the firmness really change unless I used the switch.

Yes, that's the whole design concept. We have to go back to something like the E92 M3 with EDC-K for a 'fixed' uncontrolled setting with the adaptive package.

That has controlled (active) Comfort and Normal, plus the controlled (fixed) Sport setting.

[anielsen71]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Yes, that's the whole design concept. We have to go back to something like the E92 M3 with EDC-K for a 'fixed' uncontrolled setting with the adaptive package.

That has controlled (active) Comfort and Normal, plus the controlled (fixed) Sport setting.

Ok, thnx for info :-)

[visionaut]

Allan, it’s the first. From BMW:

The Electronic Damper Control in the Adaptive M Sports suspension consists of four continuously adjustable shock absorbers with coupled rebound/compression stage adjustment produce damping forces according to requirements. The shock absorbers can automatically assume a harder setting (more dynamic/sporty) or softer (more comfortable) setting, depending on the driving manoeuvre.

The Electronic Damper Control (EDC) is a comfort-oriented suspension control system for controlling the damping forces on individual wheels.

Electronic Damper Control provides the following advantages:
-greater on-road comfort
-enhanced agility of vehicle
-improved self-steering response and response to load reversals
-improved driving safety and shortening of the stopping distance

Functional description:
The EDC control unit is the central control unit for Vertical Dynamics Management.
Electronic Damper Control increases ride comfort. Greater on-road comfort is achieved when the vehicle body moves vertically as little as possible.

[anielsen71]

Originally Posted by visionaut

Allan, it’s the first. From BMW:

The Electronic Damper Control in the Adaptive M Sports suspension consists of four continuously adjustable shock absorbers with coupled rebound/compression stage adjustment produce damping forces according to requirements. The shock absorbers can automatically assume a harder setting (more dynamic/sporty) or softer (more comfortable) setting, depending on the driving manoeuvre.

The Electronic Damper Control (EDC) is a comfort-oriented suspension control system for controlling the damping forces on individual wheels.

Electronic Damper Control provides the following advantages:
-greater on-road comfort
-enhanced agility of vehicle
-improved self-steering response and response to load reversals
-improved driving safety and shortening of the stopping distance

Functional description:
The EDC control unit is the central control unit for Vertical Dynamics Management.
Electronic Damper Control increases ride comfort. Greater on-road comfort is achieved when the vehicle body moves vertically as little as possible.

Ok, thnx for the info

[Skyhigh]

Although all of the above is true, at least on paper, and makes sense as this is the "adaptive" bit, I can also confirm that I for one am unable to tell any difference, apart from when switching from Comfort to Sport and vice versa.

I assume the automatic fine-tuning within a mode or "adaptiveness" is simply not perceivable without a "with" vs. "without" comparison.

If anyone has a "test case" which clearly shows the adaptiveness, let me know

[Techno 9000]

My case for you would be, for those on OEM XDrive springs in Comfort mode that seems very soft, turning into a tight bend at speed shows surprisingly little roll. I think the system is stiffening the outer dampers to resist the roll.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Techno 9000

My case for you would be, for those on OEM XDrive springs in Comfort mode that seems very soft, turning into a tight bend at speed shows surprisingly little roll. I think the system is stiffening the outer dampers to resist the roll.

Add to the above... also think... what would it be like in a bend, without the dampers stiffening up and the slowing of weight transfer?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

I assume the automatic fine-tuning within a mode or "adaptiveness" is simply not perceivable without a "with" vs. "without" comparison.

If anyone has a "test case" which clearly shows the adaptiveness, let me know

You'd need to test a standard (not M-sport) passive setup, 'back to back' with adaptive in Comfort, see the difference in handling, more so than ride.

[Skyhigh]

That was my point - I know very well that there is a difference and am very happy with the suspension in general!! I just cannot categorically feel/identify the "adaptive" element on the fly.

The difference between the non-adaptive and adaptive in general is very appreciable, but it has more to do with the overall stiffness and lack of any versatility, which the adaptive has and I love. But I expected to be able to feel whet it softens or gets stiffer automatically, e.g. when suddenly driving over a bad road or going off-road.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by anielsen71

Hi ppl

Anyone know how active an Active M suspension is?

Does it use input from sensors to tighten up suspension on the fly?
Or is it just possible to choose between comfort and sport firmness?

I have it in my car and think its the last of the 2 options.
Just wondered since I will prob change it to a KW suspension in the next few months. And if it actually is active, I might consider changing the dampers to a new set og OEM's

You actually have more options that will keep the Adaptive suspension technology that you have already invested in. The two that I'd consider are KW DDC coilovers and Bilstein B6-DampTronic front struts & Rear Shocks.

[anielsen71]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

That was my point - I know very well that there is a difference and am very happy with the suspension in general!! I just cannot categorically feel/identify the "adaptive" element on the fly.

The difference between the non-adaptive and adaptive in general is very appreciable, but it has more to do with the overall stiffness and lack of any versatility, which the adaptive has and I love. But I expected to be able to feel whet it softens or gets stiffer automatically, e.g. when suddenly driving over a bad road or going off-road.

Exactly my point to.
I'm happy with the comfort and ride, and happy with the possibility of changing to sport to stiffen up the suspension. But I have a hard time feeing the adaptiveness.

[anielsen71]

Originally Posted by johnung

You actually have more options that will keep the Adaptive suspension technology that you have already invested in. The two that I'd consider are KW DDC coilovers and Bilstein B6-DampTronic front struts & Rear Shocks.

When I mentioned KW, it was actually the DDC variant I had in mind.
And from the text above from the description of M Adaptive suspension, the intelligence is in the EDC module and not in the damper itself.
And since the KW DDC is plug and play the EDC module will still do its thing. So with KW's,I should not loose the adaptiveness.

Im aware of Bilsteins B6 DampTronic and their B16 adaptive. But I have had Bilstein B16 adaptive on my former E91. And they are really good as long as they work. they don't last very long. I had to change front struts after only 80.000km. And that's not good enough for me. I would expect at least double.
I have a friend with a E90 with KW adaptive. And comparing his E91 and my E91, his KW was more comfortable than mine. As he put it: "Yours is stiff, and in sport more stiff". That also lead me towards KW's

[johnung]

Originally Posted by anielsen71

When I mentioned KW, it was actually the DDC variant I had in mind.
And from the text above from the description of M Adaptive suspension, the intelligence is in the EDC module and not in the damper itself.
And since the KW DDC is plug and play the EDC module will still do its thing. So with KW's,I should not loose the adaptiveness.

Im aware of Bilsteins B6 DampTronic and their B16 adaptive. But I have had Bilstein B16 adaptive on my former E91. And they are really good as long as they work. they don't last very long. I had to change front struts after only 80.000km. And that's not good enough for me. I would expect at least double.
I have a friend with a E90 with KW adaptive. And comparing his E91 and my E91, his KW was more comfortable than mine. As he put it: "Yours is stiff, and in sport more stiff". That also lead me towards KW's

Sounds like you are on top of it. Guys often focus on the dampers in coilovers and may not realize how important it is to properly match the front and rear springs to the dampers and to the car. KW does an excellent job of this in their coilover setups. It's why many people praise the ride quality of KW's.

It's also why I did not include F3x Bilstein B16-DampTronic coilovers in my recommendation. Their front springs are overly stiff. So much so that increasing the size of the front sway bar only makes things worse. The handling of the B16 setup could benefit from a heavier rear sway such as an H&R 20mm. But nothing will make it ride better with those stiff front springs.

[anielsen71]

Originally Posted by johnung

Sounds like you are on top of it. Guys often focus on the dampers in coilovers and may not realize how important it is to properly match the front and rear springs to the dampers and to the car. KW does an excellent job of this in their coilover setups. It's why many people praise the ride quality of KW's.

It's also why I did not include F3x Bilstein B16-DampTronic coilovers in my recommendation. Their front springs are overly stiff. So much so that increasing the size of the front sway bar only makes things worse. The handling of the B16 setup could benefit from a heavier rear sway such as an H&R 20mm. But nothing will make it ride better with those stiff front springs.

On the E91, I also had both sway bars changed for a set of H&R's.
And changed all bushings to power flex.
All in all a bit harsh as a dd doing approx 50.000km a year.
But it was fun at the time. Now I want a bit more comfort but with the option to change for sport mode :-)

[visionaut]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

…I just cannot categorically feel/identify the "adaptive" element on the fly.
… But I expected to be able to feel whet it softens or gets stiffer automatically, e.g. when suddenly driving over a bad road or going off-road.

Originally Posted by anielsen71

… But I have a hard time feeing the adaptiveness.

To me the EDC is easily identifiable on the mountain backroads that I frequent regularly.

It’s very evident in the ultra-smooth yet grippy ride at speed over varying road surfaces, and the chassis’s better stability in transitions (braking/acceleration).

There’s a extra smoothness to the ride driving these backroads with the M Adaptive EDC. It provides a feel of sustained tire contact with the road at all four corners in the turns and when braking, while also maintaining an uncanny chassis stillness during these maneuvers and when traveling over rougher sections.

The computer control enables more rapid and precise responses, timed to the needs across all 4 corners, keeping the chassis height smoothly stable while also keeping the tires in greater contact with the road surface.

The EDC is also evident coming into and out of tight corners and hairpins turns. In the transition from braking to accelerating, the chassis is more stable, with noticeably reduced pitch and yaw. I find the flattened body dynamics also aids hard braking, especially over less than ideal road surfaces.

So, when on pace, you should definitely notice the EDC’s aid in transition stability (pitch/yaw response) and in providing a super smooth ride while also providing improved tire contact (timed damping). I do.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by visionaut

To me the EDC is easily identifiable on the mountain backroads that I frequent regularly.

It’s very evident in the ultra-smooth yet grippy ride at speed over varying road surfaces, and the chassis’s better stability in transitions (braking/acceleration).

There’s a extra smoothness to the ride driving these backroads with the M Adaptive EDC. It provides a feel of sustained tire contact with the road at all four corners in the turns and when braking, while also maintaining an uncanny chassis stillness during these maneuvers and when traveling over rougher sections.

The computer control enables more rapid and precise responses, timed to the needs across all 4 corners, keeping the chassis height smoothly stable while also keeping the tires in greater contact with the road surface.

The EDC is also evident coming into and out of tight corners and hairpins turns. In the transition from braking to accelerating, the chassis is more stable, with noticeably reduced pitch and yaw. I find the flattened body dynamics also aids hard braking, especially over less than ideal road surfaces.

So, when on pace, you should definitely notice the EDC’s aid in transition stability (pitch/yaw response) and in providing a super smooth ride while also providing improved tire contact (timed damping). I do.

Excellent description of the Adaptive dampers! A buddy of mine raced professionally before working for BMW. A few years ago he took me for test drives of 335i's and said similar things. He said that the quickest way for him to tell if a car had standard or Adaptive dampers was to drive at low speed and rapidly turn the steering left & right. If Adaptive, you could easily feel it flatten the body roll on each side.