[nightbreaker]

Hello everyone,

I am planning to change the transmission fluid on my 37000 miles 2013 F30 320ied.

I am the first owner and the transmission fluid has never been changed. The car has also been driven with extra care.

I already have purchased 7 liters of ZF8 fluid and the filter which came with 13 screws and fill plug.


Will everything be okay after the fluid change as long as I follow the procedures on ISTA+ Oil Level Adjustment procedure as below?

I am still worrying about having issues after the fluid change, because there was a member here who had sudden shifting problems from D to M1 after the fluid change. (But, from their youtube video it is visible that their mileage was over 3 times of my car's current mileage).

I have three queries:

1- Please share your experiences? What do you think about issue probability?

2- Is the procedure as below (as at the zf8 fluid change topic) and no need to spin wheels but to shift with always brake support?

3- Will the oil level adjustment be completed after the second oil level check which will be after a firm drive+park+cool down to 20C+run on idle to reach 40C and check again with ISTA+ ?


FYI, the ISTA+ "Oil adjustment" procedure following pan/filter replacement is as follows (car initially off):
1. Fill pan until fluid drips from the fill plug
2. Turn car on, and immediately repeat step 1
3. Get in the car and shift to reverse, then D, then go into the manual shift gate and hold gears 1 & 2 for 10 seconds.
4. Put the car back in park and rev the engine at 2k RPMs for 30 seconds to fill the torque converter.
5. Repeat step 1. Replace fill plug


Thank you very much in advance all!!!

[floydarogers]

Probably no need to change it that early; 60K miles is reasonable.

Several DIY's around; almost all include a new (plastic) pan, which has the filter embedded in it. Some people like to do the mechatronic sleeve/seal at the same time.

[IraHayes]

ZF recommends changing the fluid between 60 and 80,000 miles. I emailed his ZF about this not long ago and they emailed me back the proper procedure. If you like, send me a PM with your email address and I will forward you the PDF. If anything, you will be able to compare it to what you have in ISTA. By the way, may I ask where you downloaded ISTA? Looking to download it myself.


Actually, hopefully the link below works.

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link...6-277eb1be45e1

[nightbreaker]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Probably no need to change it that early; 60K miles is reasonable.

Several DIY's around; almost all include a new (plastic) pan, which has the filter embedded in it. Some people like to do the mechatronic sleeve/seal at the same time.

Thanks for the reply.

I have already purchased the oil and filter kit and I will change it as the car and the oil itself is 6 years old already regardless of mileage.

There is no seal inside the box. The filter oring is already on the filter. I dont know whether there is mechatronic sleeve/seal replaced at ZF8.

As far as I know the mechatronics sleeve and seal comes with Zf6 filter kit and not Zf8. Is that right?

[nightbreaker]

Originally Posted by IraHayes

ZF recommends changing the fluid between 60 and 80,000 miles. I emailed his ZF about this not long ago and they emailed me back the proper procedure. If you like, send me a PM with your email address and I will forward you the PDF. If anything, you will be able to compare it to what you have in ISTA. By the way, may I ask where you downloaded ISTA? Looking to download it myself.


Actually, hopefully the link below works.

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link...6-277eb1be45e1

Thanks for the pdf link. I have already printed that 5 page instructions.

It s been few months since I got the ista, I really dont remember the source but I tried lots of links. I also got remote desktop support from a helpful member but it was only one day and I was unable to get any further support from him. I had to replace the hdd, and had to clone the disk to the new ssd. It looks like I have something working and dont know how it is working and will always need to keep my windows installation. I am really sorry that I could not help you much. I can share the files but the size is huge.

[nightbreaker]

There is no place saying to spin the wheels which are free on stands. It just advises to shift through gears with brake support for 10 sec each and 2000rpm on P to fill the t. converter.
I have two more questions?

1- Is that okay I do not take any risk and just shift though gears without spinning after second oil add at around 40-50C oil temp when the car is up?

2- The ISTA+ asks the reason why I check oil level. Right after the filter replacement and fill it looks like I should choose 'oil sump was removed'. However, there is no option to choose 'just an oil check'. So which option should I choose during the second oil check after a drive ?

[nightbreaker]

Changed the transmission fluid today.

First to see the old oil coming out made me happy.

Got 4 liters out, spilled some very small amount out and assume that some small amount was stuck inside filter. Managed to fill exactly 4.6 liters.

Checked the oil level at 50C and all was good.

Drove the car and made the oil temp 86C.

Waited to cool down to 50C again, but when I turned the ignition on and made the last check the oil immediately got to 60C really little amount was coming out.

Considering that I put the same amount taken out (at 58C first), I put everything back and finalised the job.

Resetted the adaptations.

So far so good, very very very smooth shifts and no problems at all.

The car is exactly 5 and half years old and has 37000 miles, and I recommend everyone to change the transmission fluid at this mileage which I believe is ideal, because the goal is to change the transmission fluid when new and old oil carry same characteristics, which is very likely when they have similar visual look.

Hope this helps for the ones who are thinking to change the transmission fluid on F30.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by IraHayes

ZF recommends changing the fluid between 60 and 80,000 miles. I emailed his ZF about this not long ago and they emailed me back the proper procedure. If you like, send me a PM with your email address and I will forward you the PDF. If anything, you will be able to compare it to what you have in ISTA. By the way, may I ask where you downloaded ISTA? Looking to download it myself.


Actually, hopefully the link below works.

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link...6-277eb1be45e1

As my car approaches 100k miles I decided to peruse the Bentley service manual to see what my 2014 335i w ZF8 calls for.

The service manual says to replace the AT fluid at 100k miles, but when I tried to schedule this service the service manager is adamant that the AT fluid is lifetime and they don't replace it. He said they (Park Ave BMW in NJ) haven't serviced AT fluid in a BMW since the 90s!

Weird.

Edit: just dug up my official BMW "Service and Warranty Information" book and can confirm what the Service Manager said. The trans fluid does not call for replacement. I guess I just saved some money.

[CarlosC]

You might be interested in this:

Why BMW's "Lifetime" Automatic Transmission Fill Doesn't Actually Mean "Lifetime"

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by CarlosC

You might be interested in this:

Why BMW's "Lifetime" Automatic Transmission Fill Doesn't Actually Mean "Lifetime"

I appreciate the link. I'll probably use an Indy shop to do the AT fluid swap.

What I find amusing is the allegation that BMW is allowing bias to impact their service regime. The amusing part is this allegation is coming from a biased source. A company selling service kits. 😏

[perryo91]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I appreciate the link. I'll probably use an Indy shop to do the AT fluid swap.

What I find amusing is the allegation that BMW is allowing bias to impact their service regime. The amusing part is this allegation is coming from a biased source. A company selling service kits. 😏

Its also recommended by the manufacturer of the unit.

[nightbreaker]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

As my car approaches 100k miles I decided to peruse the Bentley service manual to see what my 2014 335i w ZF8 calls for.

The service manual says to replace the AT fluid at 100k miles, but when I tried to schedule this service the service manager is adamant that the AT fluid is lifetime and they don't replace it. He said they (Park Ave BMW in NJ) haven't serviced AT fluid in a BMW since the 90s!

Weird.

Edit: just dug up my official BMW "Service and Warranty Information" book and can confirm what the Service Manager said. The trans fluid does not call for replacement. I guess I just saved some money.

Do not listen that bmw service. ZF recommends fluid chage every 80000 kilometers and not miles. Which is actually about 50000 miles max.

Just change the fluid and filter and enjoy smoother shifts and a healthier reliable transmission.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by nightbreaker

Do not listen that bmw service. ZF recommends fluid chage every 80000 kilometers and not miles. Which is actually about 50000 miles max.

Just change the fluid and filter and enjoy smoother shifts and a healthier reliable transmission.

Funny that we only learn this through hearsay. All the official documentation says otherwise.

[Jvac]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Funny that we only learn this through hearsay. All the official documentation says otherwise.

Another thread going on in the general section includes the service doc from zf. It does contradict bmw's claim of lifetime fluid. Search "lifetime fluid" and it should come up.
They built the tranny, and they are saying change it around 60000 miles. Hard to argue with the manufacturer, but bmw is also pretty adamant as you saw for yourself. Mine is quite new at 21k so I'm still trying to figure out what to do when the time comes. Lots of support for both sides of the argument.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Jvac

Another thread going on in the general section includes the service doc from zf. It does contradict bmw's claim of lifetime fluid. Search "lifetime fluid" and it should come up.
They built the tranny, and they are saying change it around 60000 miles. Hard to argue with the manufacturer, but bmw is also pretty adamant as you saw for yourself. Mine is quite new at 21k so I'm still trying to figure out what to do when the time comes. Lots of support for both sides of the argument.

My request is for documented proof from the manufacturer and/or a representative going on record with his/her name and position stating that their BMW supplied ZF8s need a fluid service at any mileage. So far I only have seen hearsay, and documents disproving servicing the AT fluid.

[Johny212]

Hi there,
I wrote an separate topic but I will mention it here as well

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...il+replacement


What are your experiences with changing the oil?

It is better to change it static ( normal draining the oil & filter replacement with new oil) + new adaptation - around 70% oil is changed

Or the dynamic method - connect the machine to hot gearbox, lubrication system is cleaned with cleaning agents (added to the old fluid). Then push the used fluid out with the pump while introducing a new one.
&Replacement filter + new adaptation - 100% oil is changed
-around 2 bar by machine


There are many opinions - dynamic method of replacement is bad coz of mechatronic in gearbox...bla bla
I know 3 people for now who changed oil in Exx gearbox with over 130k miles and the gearbox is working better - the gearbox dragging gears, sometimes was jerking while changing gear ( I know its not ZF)

I am still thinking which method of changing to choose in my ZF 8HP50

I've got 95k km for now, ~60k miles
Especially on cold engine I noticed the gearbox dragging gears, even on hot sometimes. Also sometimes you feel a gentle tug when changing gears.

Anyone observed better gerbox working after traditional oil replacement?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

My request is for documented proof from the manufacturer and/or a representative going on record with his/her name and position stating that their BMW supplied ZF8s need a fluid service at any mileage. So far I only have seen hearsay, and documents disproving servicing the AT fluid.

ZF explicitly states that the fill is "lifetime" but does recommend a fluid change between 45k-75k miles OR 8yrs for vehicles which meet their "severe service" operating environment. The vast majority of vehicles don't fall within this scenerio.

BMW owners manual states 120k miles for ATF change.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

ZF explicitly states that the fill is "lifetime" but does recommend a fluid change between 45k-75k miles OR 8yrs for vehicles which meet their "severe service" operating environment. The vast majority of vehicles don't fall within this scenerio.

BMW owners manual states 120k miles for ATF change.

That's the discrepancy I mentioned earlier in the thread. Originally I was looking at a Bentley service manual for my car that said 100k mi service. When I called the dealership to schedule the service, you would have thought I was asking them to stitch up a dress. Their head tech said he hasn't done AT fluid maintenance since the 90s.

My BMW owners manual (2014 335i) says lifetime.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

That's the discrepancy I mentioned earlier in the thread. Originally I was looking at a Bentley service manual for my car that said 100k mi service. When I called the dealership to schedule the service, you would have thought I was asking them to stitch up a dress. Their head tech said he hasn't done AT fluid maintenance since the 90s.

My BMW owners manual (2014 335i) says lifetime.

IIRV it's in the service/warranty booklet.

Dealers don't want to do the work because it's a PITA and they don't want to deal with post -work customer complaints.

Also, at 100k miles you're looking at a second or third owner and they're not going to the dealerships for maintenance.

[sspade]

My dealer simply refused to do a service on my ZF 8HP. They would not take my money and said it's completely unnecessary. Im holding off for now....

75k miles.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by sspade

My dealer simply refused to do a service on my ZF 8HP. They would not take my money and said it's completely unnecessary. Im holding off for now....

75k miles.

Same here.

[nightbreaker]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

As my car approaches 100k miles I decided to peruse the Bentley service manual to see what my 2014 335i w ZF8 calls for.

The service manual says to replace the AT fluid at 100k miles, but when I tried to schedule this service the service manager is adamant that the AT fluid is lifetime and they don't replace it. He said they (Park Ave BMW in NJ) haven't serviced AT fluid in a BMW since the 90s!

Weird.

Edit: just dug up my official BMW "Service and Warranty Information" book and can confirm what the Service Manager said. The trans fluid does not call for replacement. I guess I just saved some money.

No you did not save any money. You are taking more risk by ignoring the fluid change.

If the trans. fluid change is unncessary

1- why the original ZF8 bottle has BMW part number on it?

2- Why the oil has an production and expiry date (shelf life)?

3- How come something having a limited shelf life has unlimited life at operation under hard conditions.

4- How can the fluid still be good after having metal pieces inside, and WATER? Yes transmission oil also absorbs water from the air inside.

Think again. We all know that BMW profits more from selling transmission and transmission parts rather than car itself. Purpose is to shorten life of your transmission, differential by calling the oil change 'UNNECESSARY' and sell you a new car ASAP, or servicing your transmission with as much unccessary extra parts on top of necessary parts as possible and do upselling.

Think again mate. Also consider differential fluid change as well, which I will do very soon and share my experiences.