[Dave911]

Originally Posted by BrennanF30

And you all think Theresa May is a better option?

The woman cant make up her mind on costing caps, how is she going to make her mind up to push that big red button if the time comes?

Not to mention going and making friends with the middle east and having a close relationship with that imbecile Trump.

Shes not really a good option but far better than corbyn.

There wont be a big red button if labour are in charge.

And who is corbyn friendly with? The IRA, Hamas and Hizbollah. Trump isnt that bad. Made out to be far worse than he is by the leftist media who are full of sh1t and lie on a daily basis.

[DougMcL]

Once again May is coming across so badly being interviewed by Paxman. She is actually reeling with the audience laughing and applauding Paxman.

[AndyEssex330d]

Originally Posted by DougMcL

Once again May is coming across so badly being interviewed by Paxman. She is actually reeling with the audience laughing and applauding Paxman.

Corbyn came off so much better...???the bloke needs to be put in a grave, maybe dug by himself... I'm sure that's how the IRA used to do things.

[JD6]

I do worry a little that Corbyn will keep on drawing (expensive and uncosted) rabbits out of the hat over the next 10 days. The wider public appear to be stupid enough for these things to gain him popularity. Who cares where the money comes from, when the promise wins you votes. You don't actually have to deliver, just like the Brexit £350m a week for the NHS bullshit.

That said, I would prefer a modest Conservative majority to a huge one. Large majorities are bad for democracy and I don't have enough faith in May or the bunch of clowns she has surrounded herself with to do the right thing. There needs to be pressure from the opposition benches.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by BrennanF30

And you all think Theresa May is a better option?

The woman cant make up her mind on costing caps, how is she going to make her mind up to push that big red button if the time comes?

I think she had made up her mind when they published the manifesto - there was to be no cap. The subsequent outcry forced her into a corner and rather than admit her mistake, she pretended it was up for consultation in the Green Paper. Not very dignified and she knew it would cost votes, but I think she just overestimated her lead over Corbyn.

The trouble was, she was trying to be responsible and pretty straight in the manifesto that social care costs are unaffordable at present, and that some of those receiving the care will have to pay for it. The public aren't ready for that level of honesty.

They prefer more police, more teachers, more doctors, more nurses, higher pay, free tuition fees, free school lunches, triple lock pensions, free social care... fairytale.

[blackrabbit]

Tory for me. I have never been a labour fan, but this left wing version stands for everything i detest in labour. Interestingly today the funding Labour will need may have been found in the form of a land tax that was buried away in the depths of their manifesto.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...and-value-tax/

This would mean huge increases in council tax

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Dave911

Trump isnt that bad. Made out to be far worse than he is by the leftist media who are full of sh1t and lie on a daily basis.

Are you kidding?! The man has the maturity of a 4 year old. Instant childish reactions and zero ability to analyse or consider anything.

If we get through 4, maybe 8 years, without some catastrophic ill thought out military action we will have been VERY lucky.

I don't agree with his policies, but they aren't the real problem, it's his instant reaction to any kind of criticism or things he personally doesn't like that are truly dangerous.

Blaming the media for his poor image is what he does, now he's got you onside too. Maybe we should shut down every media outlet that doesn't support him!!!!!

[Kyuuseishu]

Originally Posted by JD6

I think she had made up her mind when they published the manifesto - there was to be no cap. The subsequent outcry forced her into a corner and rather than admit her mistake, she pretended it was up for consultation in the Green Paper. Not very dignified and she knew it would cost votes, but I think she just overestimated her lead over Corbyn.

The trouble was, she was trying to be responsible and pretty straight in the manifesto that social care costs are unaffordable at present, and that some of those receiving the care will have to pay for it. The public aren't ready for that level of honesty.

They prefer more police, more teachers, more doctors, more nurses, higher pay, free tuition fees, free school lunches, triple lock pensions, free social care... fairytale.

But we do actually need these things... under May and the tories they have just been reducing, harming the professions they belong to because they are stretched so thin (especially in the case of nurses). Another 5 years under May the trend will just continue with less police, less teachers (mainly in core subjects, and non core being cut completely), less doctors and nurses (meaning poorer overall quality of care). I can't exactly say I am a fan of what the tories have done to these areas in all honesty.

[Dave911]

Originally Posted by Alex440

Are you kidding?! The man has the maturity of a 4 year old. Instant childish reactions and zero ability to analyse or consider anything.

If we get through 4, maybe 8 years, without some catastrophic ill thought out military action we will have been VERY lucky.

I don't agree with his policies, but they aren't the real problem, it's his instant reaction to any kind of criticism or things he personally doesn't like that are truly dangerous.

Blaming the media for his poor image is what he does, now he's got you onside too. Maybe we should shut down every media outlet that doesn't support him!!!!!

Not going to get into a trump debate with you. Although I do like him. Though shutting down some media outlets is a cracking idea. They publish what they want you to believe and it seems to work most of the time. Start with the BBC becuase lets face it they are a corrupt bunch of bastards.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Alex440

The choices are so bad I'm close to not voting at all.

I'd love to have a choice between say David Cameron and David Milliband for this election. Shame one committed personal political suicide and the other walked away after his party committed political suicide.

+1

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Dave911

Not going to get into a trump debate with you. Although I do like him. Though shutting down some media outlets is a cracking idea. They publish what they want you to believe and it seems to work most of the time. Start with the BBC becuase lets face it they are a corrupt bunch of bastards.

Great idea. Let's close the BBC down, should be good for austerity.

I think we should just have one media outlet per country that are allowed to report just the facts only, like North Korea. I think we should go for the Daily Mail here and Fox News in the US. That should make sure we don't get any silly liberal ideas.

[Dave911]

Originally Posted by Alex440

Great idea. Let's close the BBC down, should be good for austerity.

I think we should just have one media outlet per country that are allowed to report just the facts only, like North Korea. I think we should go for the Daily Mail here and Fox News in the US. That should make sure we don't get any silly liberal ideas.

We obviously have very different views mate so not going to get into an arguement on a bmw forum.

[Dyl]

Originally Posted by AndyEssex330d

Corbyn came off so much better...???the bloke needs to be put in a grave, maybe dug by himself... I'm sure that's how the IRA used to do things.

Maybe we can ask the serving Conservative councillor who was a gun smuggler in the IRA?

The shit Corbyn gets for trying to stop people killing each other is incredible, while the current government is selling arms to regimes that are funding and supplying these arms to terrorist networks like ISIS etc.

We sorted the terrorism problem in Ireland by talking and acting like adults, so, why not stick to things that are currently a problem in this country, like how teachers are begging parents for school supplies. Or the 20,000 police (how did he slip through the net? ) now missing from their ranks. Or the NHS, victims of terror events that happened late last week have had to have crowdfunding campaigns set up in the States to pay for their treatment. Fuck that, but that's where we are heading.

Health, education and security, among many others, should not be scrimped on. At all. It's what we have all benefited from, and now we are older we shouldn't be pulling the ladder up from future generations.

May is absolutely useless, by far the worst leader this country has ever had and she should be allowed nowhere near the E.U. negotiations, they will eat her alive.

[Dyl]

Originally Posted by JD6

They prefer more police, more teachers, more doctors, more nurses, higher pay, free tuition fees, free school lunches, triple lock pensions, free social care... fairytale.

Fairytale? We have had all of that.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Dyl

Fairytale? We have had all of that.

Probably in the days when schoolleavers left school at 16 and started earning and payingt taxes, the average age at which people died was 73 and we didnt have some of the treatments that we now have which cost fortunes.

We cant just keep buying things we cant afford - somebody has to pay for it. We could take a bit more in Corporation Tax, a bit more in VAT, a bit more in income tax (but of course if you take income tax the peope cant spend it so your VAT take falls) - but then we run the risk of companies and people going to earn a living elsewhere....

Its not an easy solution - and there will have to be some painful decisions. who they are painful to is the debate....

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by BrennanF30

And you all think Theresa May is a better option?

The woman cant make up her mind on costing caps, how is she going to make her mind up to push that big red button if the time comes?

Not to mention going and making friends with the middle east and having a close relationship with that imbecile Trump.

When is the big red button time coming? The answer is, as long as we have a credible deterrent presided over by a credible government it won't.

Everyone makes friends (or rather engages with the middle east) Corbyn has chosen to make friends with Hamas (nice)

That imbecile Trump is the president of the USA would you prefer it that we insult that office and ruin our relationship with them?

Corbyn/Abbott/McDonnell, a terrorist sympathiser, a racist and a Marxist.

Yes, May is better.

[BrennanF30]

Originally Posted by Dyl

Maybe we can ask the serving Conservative councillor who was a gun smuggler in the IRA?

The shit Corbyn gets for trying to stop people killing each other is incredible, while the current government is selling arms to regimes that are funding and supplying these arms to terrorist networks like ISIS etc.

We sorted the terrorism problem in Ireland by talking and acting like adults, so, why not stick to things that are currently a problem in this country, like how teachers are begging parents for school supplies. Or the 20,000 police (how did he slip through the net? ) now missing from their ranks. Or the NHS, victims of terror events that happened late last week have had to have crowdfunding campaigns set up in the States to pay for their treatment. Fuck that, but that's where we are heading.

Health, education and security, among many others, should not be scrimped on. At all. It's what we have all benefited from, and now we are older we shouldn't be pulling the ladder up from future generations.

May is absolutely useless, by far the worst leader this country has ever had and she should be allowed nowhere near the E.U. negotiations, they will eat her alive.

This man talks sense

[Dyl]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Probably in the days when schoolleavers left school at 16 and started earning and payingt taxes, the average age at which people died was 73 and we didnt have some of the treatments that we now have which cost fortunes.

We cant just keep buying things we cant afford - somebody has to pay for it. We could take a bit more in Corporation Tax, a bit more in VAT, a bit more in income tax (but of course if you take income tax the peope cant spend it so your VAT take falls) - but then we run the risk of companies and people going to earn a living elsewhere....

Its not an easy solution - and there will have to be some painful decisions. who they are painful to is the debate....

I agree but we could start making the biggies to start paying their way. Amazon, Starbucks, Google, etc.

Big companies who pay no tax are destroying smaller businesses who have paid their fair share over the years. It's not competitive or fair. Add to that the way they treat their employees with zero hr contracts and horrific working conditions.

They are not gonna leave the U.K. because we ask them to pay their taxes properly, and even if they did, surely it would benefit smaller businesses. People are still gonna buy coffee, electronics whether the big boys are here or not. Assuming people still have jobs to pay for them that is.

The Conservatives are not the party of business, they are the party of big business.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Dyl

I agree but we could start making the biggies to start paying their way. Amazon, Starbucks, Google, etc.

Big companies who pay no tax are destroying smaller businesses who have paid their fair share over the years. It's not competitive or fair. Add to that the way they treat their employees with zero hr contracts and horrific working conditions.

They are not gonna leave the U.K. because we ask them to pay their taxes properly, and even if they did, surely it would benefit smaller businesses. People are still gonna buy coffee, electronics whether the big boys are here or not. Assuming people still have jobs to pay for them that is.

The Conservatives are not the party of business, they are the party of big business.

And HOW would you propose going about that first line? The problem is that we live in a global world and determining where a profit is made, where a cost relates to, who should pay tax on what is no longer a straightforward thing - and whatever the government puts in place, the big consultancies are immediately on the case of working legal ways around it (which by the way employs lots of people who pay lots of tax...)

At the other end there are lots of cash based service providers who dont pay their fair share either, but all of Labours proposals are aimed at making those who already pay pay more. Increasing the Corp Tax rate and the rate on high earners wont affect those who dont declare or find legal avoidance techniques.

I am all in favour of fairness and would love all of those who dont pay to pay their fair share - whether that be the drug dealer down the road (VAT on sale price and tax on profits - nice), the builder / plumber / decorator / gardener etc who can do 20% off for cash mate, or Google et al. I dont think the solution is to up the rates on the honest ones who pay their way anyway.

We could of course waste less on the lazy feckers who cant be arsed to work - but distinguishing them from the genuinely needy can be equally hard...

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

As you rightly say, big business gets a free ride.

Our economy is huge and complex, there isn't ever just one way to do something. Cutting public sector funding is the easy way out. No one to fight back, no one to tell them no.

Big business is too hard to tackle, so they just pretend and really leave them to it. We shouldn't hammer them as some suggest, we should negotiate a middle ground where they pay a reasonable amount of taxes, but we still remain attractive to them. It isn't rocket science. Successful negotiation means both sides get something from a deal.

We could also review our overseas aid before stripping bare our essential services. I don't think we should stop, but we are one of only 8 countries in the world who donate 0.7% of GDP and only one of 2 G7 countries. USA gives 0.18%.

[Dyl]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

the big consultancies are immediately on the case of working legal ways around it (which by the way employs lots of people who pay lots of tax...)

You think experts in tax avoidance pay "lots" of tax? I put it to you that they probably don't pay the same % as an average U.K. employee.

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

We could of course waste less on the lazy feckers who cant be arsed to work - but distinguishing them from the genuinely needy can be equally hard...

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Dyl

You think experts in tax avoidance pay "lots" of tax? I put it to you that they probably don't pay the same % as an average U.K. employee.



I agree with this wholeheartedly.

Well given I know a couple of them as they have done work for work, they will be in the £150k a year earnings bracket and employees so paying a fair whack personally....